Panic Mode On (98) Server Problems?

Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (98) Server Problems?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Sutaru Tsureku
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 07
Posts: 7105
Credit: 147,663,825
RAC: 5
Germany
Message 1703637 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 7:04:54 UTC - in response to Message 1703405.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 7:25:20 UTC

NX-01 wrote:
(...) I think there's just a rescheduler for windows and even that seems to be hard to find.

The developer of this rescheduler tool took his tool offline, because of CreditNew.

AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

A rescheduler tool screw up the correct calculation of the Credits/results (your own - and your wingmen get the same wrong Credits granted).
The SETI server think e.g. it's calculated on CPU (as it is marked online), but after rescheduling it was calculated on GPU. The SETI server does not notice it and grant wrong (not accurate) Credits.
ID: 1703637 · Report as offensive
Profile Sutaru Tsureku
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 07
Posts: 7105
Credit: 147,663,825
RAC: 5
Germany
Message 1703639 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 7:21:12 UTC - in response to Message 1703473.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 7:23:06 UTC

jason_gee wrote:
Yeah, there seems to be more in play than just the GPU, as when wider distribution was tried some reported extreme problems (with anger). Maybe the next generation of OpenCL and Cuda applications will handle these more to everyone's liking.

TBar wrote:
Yes, as in VLARS take more GPU resources, so, all those cards set to run more than 1 or 2 at a time would start choking...and then the complaints would roll in.

ATI cards receive VLARs at Beta, as do nVidias. Neither receive VLARs on Main.

For 2 or 3 years someone said to me that the ATI/AMD VGA cards (Windows) get .vlar WUs (@ SETI-Main)...

When that was changed?
ID: 1703639 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6324
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1703643 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 7:46:27 UTC - in response to Message 1703637.  



AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.


Link, please.
ID: 1703643 · Report as offensive
qbit
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Sep 04
Posts: 630
Credit: 6,868,528
RAC: 0
Austria
Message 1703654 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 8:25:44 UTC

Well, Credit New is screwed anyway, no idea if it really matters if somebody screws it even more ;-) But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.
ID: 1703654 · Report as offensive
Profile Sutaru Tsureku
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 07
Posts: 7105
Credit: 147,663,825
RAC: 5
Germany
Message 1703664 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:11:26 UTC - in response to Message 1703643.  

I myself wrote:
AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

Raistmer wrote:
Link, please.

I was in E-Mail contact with David, Eric, Matt and Jeff.
I asked why they don't write it on the homepage - that not to use a rescheduler tool.

Eric answered: I could make such a statement, but I doubt it would do much good. We have no way of verifying who is using the tool. (...)

So they will not make an officially statement about 'not to use a rescheduler tool'.
ID: 1703664 · Report as offensive
Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 7489
Credit: 91,093,184
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 1703667 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:23:13 UTC - in response to Message 1703654.  

Well, Credit New is screwed anyway, no idea if it really matters if somebody screws it even more ;-) But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.


Well from Engineering standpoints it's merely got a number of instabilities. Hard to explain, but it can be a case of 'The straw that broke the camel's back.'
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
ID: 1703667 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6324
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1703671 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:41:21 UTC - in response to Message 1703664.  

I myself wrote:
AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

Raistmer wrote:
Link, please.

I was in E-Mail contact with David, Eric, Matt and Jeff.
I asked why they don't write it on the homepage - that not to use a rescheduler tool.

Eric answered: I could make such a statement, but I doubt it would do much good. We have no way of verifying who is using the tool. (...)

So they will not make an officially statement about 'not to use a rescheduler tool'.


So that's better keep clear. All that buzz over re-sheduler comes from forums and forums only.
ID: 1703671 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6324
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1703672 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 9:43:36 UTC - in response to Message 1703654.  

But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.


Well, again. It works. Personally veryfied. Period.
ID: 1703672 · Report as offensive
qbit
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Sep 04
Posts: 630
Credit: 6,868,528
RAC: 0
Austria
Message 1703674 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 1703672.  

But as Hal said, it may not work for V7 anyway.


Well, again. It works. Personally veryfied. Period.

Ah, ok. Didn't see that, sorry Raistmer.
ID: 1703674 · Report as offensive
Profile Sutaru Tsureku
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 07
Posts: 7105
Credit: 147,663,825
RAC: 5
Germany
Message 1703677 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:32:21 UTC - in response to Message 1703671.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 10:36:20 UTC

I myself wrote:
AFAIK, also the SETI admins were 'not pleased' about this tool since CreditNew.

Raistmer wrote:
Link, please.

I myself wrote:
I was in E-Mail contact with David, Eric, Matt and Jeff.
I asked why they don't write it on the homepage - that not to use a rescheduler tool.

Eric answered: I could make such a statement, but I doubt it would do much good. We have no way of verifying who is using the tool. (...)

So they will not make an officially statement about 'not to use a rescheduler tool'.

Raistmer wrote:
So that's better keep clear. All that buzz over re-sheduler comes from forums and forums only.

I don't understand you well...

So you (and maybe others also) will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?
ID: 1703677 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6324
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1703679 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:40:55 UTC - in response to Message 1703677.  

So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?


I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.
ID: 1703679 · Report as offensive
Profile Sutaru Tsureku
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 07
Posts: 7105
Credit: 147,663,825
RAC: 5
Germany
Message 1703680 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:46:33 UTC - in response to Message 1703679.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 10:51:03 UTC

I myself wrote:
So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?

Raistmer wrote:
I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.

You use the rescheduler and you know it will screw up CreditNew.
Wrong granted Credits for the (your) results.

But, your wingmen can't do anything against it, they must accept it that they get wrong Credits, because you use a rescheduler tool.

You don't need to answer... - it's just an ascertainment. ;-)
ID: 1703680 · Report as offensive
Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 7489
Credit: 91,093,184
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 1703681 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:48:29 UTC - in response to Message 1703679.  

So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?


I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.


I can see that. On a technical level, well you won't find the problems/weaknesses if you don't push the mechanism beyond its limits either. It's tough though IMO. Which is better ? to push a system to the point it collapses, or try to prop it up by good behaviour. Maybe it isn't black and white.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
ID: 1703681 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6324
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1703685 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 10:57:23 UTC - in response to Message 1703681.  

So you will still use the rescheduler until the SETI admins post in the News: 'please don't use the rescheduler' ?


I will use it while and when see to appropriate and beneficent for the project.
All objections regarding its usage come from quite few SETI forums members and all based on its possible influence on CreditNew credit awarding scheme that has quite a little connection with things that can be considered as positive for the SETI@home project. It was discussed many times already, I don't see any reason to start new round. Just don't deceive public with from where roots of buzz grow.


I can see that. On a technical level, well you won't find the problems/weaknesses if you don't push the mechanism beyond its limits either. It's tough though IMO. Which is better ? to push a system to the point it collapses, or try to prop it up by good behaviour. Maybe it isn't black and white.

Yep, exactly.
ID: 1703685 · Report as offensive
Profile William
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Feb 13
Posts: 2037
Credit: 17,689,662
RAC: 0
Message 1703690 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 11:16:54 UTC

Credits? what credits?

You not only screw up credits, you also mess with a few server side held personal and global variables that are in turn used for runtime estimates.
Messed up credit is just a secondary effect.

These days a few people moving work across devices will not influence the bigger picture much - the impact is on your own APR and on credit (for you and your wingmate) of course.
The latter makes it an ethical decision ;)

I would discourage from rescheduling in general - you don't want to rock the boat more than you absolutely have to.

I live by the principle 'there are no rules, only guidelines'
That makes you responsible for your actions.
If you can stand before the angry mob and say 'yes I did it, I had my reasons' - well. But don't be amazed if you get lynched before you managed to explain your reasons.
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. (Mark Twain)
ID: 1703690 · Report as offensive
Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 7489
Credit: 91,093,184
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 1703693 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 11:22:38 UTC - in response to Message 1703690.  

But don't be amazed if you get lynched before you managed to explain your reasons.


When I do that on occasion, I still tend to only get some stern tellings off. Hasn't reached lynchmob status yet, but still opportunities to get into the history of the seti@home witch trials.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
ID: 1703693 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6324
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1703695 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 11:50:51 UTC - in response to Message 1703690.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 11:52:52 UTC


If you can stand before the angry mob and say 'yes I did it, I had my reasons' - well. But don't be amazed if you get lynched before you managed to explain your reasons.


LoL, I thought westerns became more civilized since those times, that illusion your mass media try to embed in our minds :P

Regarding topic - time estimates as screwed as credit are, does anybody not know this since last app updates?
Anyway host-related effect if any will occur much sooner than project-wide so no reason to vary anyway. Also, you mentioned credit lowering as result not as putative but as fact. Links, please.
In general, moving task from one device to another roughly similar to change properties of device itself.
Few examples: CPU overclocking, GPU underclocking. If underclocking too big indeed, task could be aborted due to not meeting BOINC's expectations for its duration. Well, even taking too much vitamins can kill you as any other mindless action. Всё хорошо в меру (~Measure is a treasure) they say.
ID: 1703695 · Report as offensive
Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 7489
Credit: 91,093,184
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 1703697 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 11:55:40 UTC - in response to Message 1703695.  


If you can stand before the angry mob and say 'yes I did it, I had my reasons' - well. But don't be amazed if you get lynched before you managed to explain your reasons.


LoL, I thought westerns became more civilized since those times, that illusion your mass media try to embed in our minds :P

Regarding topic - time estimates as screwed as credit are, does anybody not know this since last app updates? ...


Well we might disagree on many things, but I can proudly say this is one we agree on. Nice to see state of the art east-west chaos has some common ground :D
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
ID: 1703697 · Report as offensive
Profile Raistmer
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 01
Posts: 6324
Credit: 106,370,077
RAC: 121
Russia
Message 1703702 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 12:05:52 UTC - in response to Message 1703695.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2015, 12:14:39 UTC

BTW, speaking about technical consequencies worth to mention top + low-end same vendor GPUs host config.
In such config "re-scheduling" happens on task by task 24/7 basis cause as was said huge number of time BOINC had not device-oriented design. Being non device-oriented it must be fault-tolerant to such configs via broadening acceptable range of deviations from expected values.
We know that low-end GPU devices roughly similar if not slower than modern CPU core.
Hence, there should be no distinction in CPU+GPU with re-scheduling versus low-end GPU + top GPU configs. re-scheduling between CPU core and GPU can't deceive BOINC estimation mechanism more than host with low-end + top GPU (not nessesary top, just low-end GPU and "average" GPU will still fit into my logic).
And hence, either BOINC stable versus re-scheduling or it just can't handle naturally occuring hosts (that, obviously, requires fix).
ID: 1703702 · Report as offensive
Profile BANZAI56
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 17 May 00
Posts: 139
Credit: 47,299,948
RAC: 2
United States
Message 1703706 - Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 12:34:11 UTC - in response to Message 1703690.  

I would discourage from rescheduling in general - you don't want to rock the boat more than you absolutely have to.


Reading deep between the lines here, dangerous I know, but perhaps some feel that a serious rocking of the boat is the only way to inspire change or improvement?

Besides isn't the religious manta here all about how S@H participants are discouraged from caring about their RAC and/or overall credit?
No toasters for you soup guy...

(e.g. If RAC/Credit is really that important, one should be running Collatz or the like where the payout is much much better.)
ID: 1703706 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : Panic Mode On (98) Server Problems?


 
©2022 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.