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Message 1846036 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 1:17:03 UTC

It seems many software developers are sick of anti-virus products causing more problems than they cure - with one exception: Windows Defender.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/01/antivirus-is-bad/

Personally, I ditched traditional AV about 5 years ago and switched to Microsoft Endpoint Protection (the corporate version of Security Essentials, the kernel of which is used in Windows Defender). I don't think I'm ever looking back.
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Message 1846081 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 4:46:56 UTC

Windows has it's place, yes. Linux also has it's places (I argue it's far more versatile). I don't have hands on use with windows 10 yet, but both XP and 7 were good operating systems and I can say this as someone who prefers linux. Just cause someone doesn't like a certain windows OS doesn't mean they are Microsoft haters, maybe they just don't like certain versions of windows...

One thing that keeps me from upgrading my windows7 installs to windows10, is the fact that you are forced to take updates, whether or not they break your setup...
I'll have a machine running windows 10 eventually, but I am not yet convinced I will see the improvement some other ppl do.

At least they finally have multiple workspaces in windows 10, and a 'native' way to SSH to other boxes... only 10 years behind the curve not bad. =P
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Message 1846102 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 6:48:12 UTC

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Message 1846134 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 11:17:21 UTC - in response to Message 1846081.  

Windows has it's place, yes. Linux also has it's places (I argue it's far more versatile). I don't have hands on use with windows 10 yet, but both XP and 7 were good operating systems and I can say this as someone who prefers linux. Just cause someone doesn't like a certain windows OS doesn't mean they are Microsoft haters, maybe they just don't like certain versions of windows...


I never said those people were Microsoft haters. In fact, I don't care if they are. My point is that people hated the OS at first then grow to love it. People hated XP when it was first released. Now people still don't want to get rid of it! We're seeing the same trend with Windows 7 vs Windows 10. I've seen this trend for many years dating back to Windows 95 and even the original release of Windows 98, but people eventually grew to love those OSes too. Sure, some didn't and continued to hate it, but the majority accepted it.

So is it really that they don't like certain versions of Windows? Or is it that people hate change and resist it until they actually give it an open-minded chance? My anecdotal life experience says it is always the latter, and it isn't limited to just OSes.

One thing that keeps me from upgrading my windows7 installs to windows10, is the fact that you are forced to take updates, whether or not they break your setup...
I'll have a machine running windows 10 eventually, but I am not yet convinced I will see the improvement some other ppl do.


Your mileage will vary. Many security experts are recommending that keeping your OS up-to-date and practice safe computing is more important than having a reputable anti-virus installed. I'm also of the mind that if an update breaks something, then a software vendor wasn't doing something right and their poor coding was taking advantage of something that shouldn't have been utilized and was eventually patched.

But honestly my experience has been to always be on the latest update and I have yet to experience these updates breaking something. I've been on the forefront of updates since at least Windows XP pre-Service Pack 1. That isn't to say that the multitude of changes didn't need to be adapted to the environment, but that's what testing and understanding the changes is for!

At least they finally have multiple workspaces in windows 10, and a 'native' way to SSH to other boxes... only 10 years behind the curve not bad. =P


Well it took them forever to bring UAC to Windows, whose concepts date all the way back to the early days of Unix and multi-user systems.
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Message 1846149 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 12:36:06 UTC

There's nothing really wrong with Win10 (except for the way it was rolled out and certain update problems), I work on enough of them, but I still can't see any real benefits in me upgrading my present hardware or apps to it (in fact it would be real a pain that I don't have the time for).

When it comes time to upgrade a CPU/Mobo/Memory combo here I'll be going Win10 Pro (you could not pay me enough to use the home version), but ATM I can see my old 2500K probably going through another GPU upgrade yet before it gets retired and very likely not until near end of Win7 support (ATM cost/performance here still really isn't worth it).

As to the stability of any particular Windows version, most especially since XP, I've found totally depends on the person using it and the limits of their knowledge plus the age/quality of the hardware.

Cheers.
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Message 1846334 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 22:48:58 UTC - in response to Message 1846149.  

There's nothing really wrong with Win10 (except for the way it was rolled out and certain update problems), I work on enough of them, but I still can't see any real benefits in me upgrading my present hardware or apps to it (in fact it would be real a pain that I don't have the time for).


Since Windows 10 has the same system requirements as 8.1 and 7, I'm curious to know why you'd have to upgrade your hardware to support it?
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Message 1846342 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 23:18:16 UTC - in response to Message 1846334.  

There's nothing really wrong with Win10 (except for the way it was rolled out and certain update problems), I work on enough of them, but I still can't see any real benefits in me upgrading my present hardware or apps to it (in fact it would be real a pain that I don't have the time for).


Since Windows 10 has the same system requirements as 8.1 and 7, I'm curious to know why you'd have to upgrade your hardware to support it?

I'm quite satisfied with my current setups as they are and there's still 3yrs of support yet to go with them so why would I want to?

It's when it becomes time to upgrade a CPU/mobo combo or those 3yrs run out I will then change the OS.

There's an old saying, "If it ain't broke, why try and fix it?".

Everyone has their own reasons for doing things their own way Ozz even if you cannot understand them from your point of view. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1846344 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 23:28:04 UTC - in response to Message 1846342.  

There's nothing really wrong with Win10 (except for the way it was rolled out and certain update problems), I work on enough of them, but I still can't see any real benefits in me upgrading my present hardware or apps to it (in fact it would be real a pain that I don't have the time for).


Since Windows 10 has the same system requirements as 8.1 and 7, I'm curious to know why you'd have to upgrade your hardware to support it?

I'm quite satisfied with my current setups as they are and there's still 3yrs of support yet to go with them so why would I want to?


That's fine. But your reasoning left a question in my mind. If you're satisfied, then that's good enough for me. That would have been a better reason than stating you saw no reason to upgrade your hardware.

Everyone has their own reasons for doing things their own way Ozz even if you cannot understand them from your point of view. ;-).


I didn't realize questioning a factually incorrect line of reasoning meant I couldn't understand other points of view. It is a matter of fact that the system requirements do not necessitate upgrading your hardware, and this was done on purpose to increase adoption of the new OS. If you want to offer a point of view reason for not upgrading, then I suggest next time you use one. ;-)
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Message 1846349 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 23:37:14 UTC

I didn't realize questioning a factually incorrect line of reasoning meant I couldn't understand other points of view. It is a matter of fact that the system requirements do not necessitate upgrading your hardware, and this was done on purpose to increase adoption of the new OS. If you want to offer a point of view reason for not upgrading, then I suggest next time you use one. ;-)

That's all a matter of interpretation and some like to interpret things the wrong way to start with because they just want to do it that way. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1846352 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017, 23:41:30 UTC - in response to Message 1846349.  
Last modified: 3 Feb 2017, 23:47:13 UTC

I didn't realize questioning a factually incorrect line of reasoning meant I couldn't understand other points of view. It is a matter of fact that the system requirements do not necessitate upgrading your hardware, and this was done on purpose to increase adoption of the new OS. If you want to offer a point of view reason for not upgrading, then I suggest next time you use one. ;-)

That's all a matter of interpretation and some like to interpret things the wrong way to start with because they just want to do it that way. ;-)


I wasn't aware system requirements were a matter of interpretation. I guess you would know about liking to interpret things wrongly then. ;-)
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Message 1846364 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 1:05:54 UTC

Wait, is this Dan Goodin, the alleged anti-Linux/Microsoft fan-boi taking Microsoft to task for failure to disclose important details about a security flaw and defending Apple and Linux in the same article?

https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/02/op-ed-when-marketers-drive-microsofts-0day-exploit-communications-we-all-lose/

"Dan Goodin" wrote:
In the hours that followed the statement, outside sources made clear that the vulnerability didn't pose as grave a threat as was suggested by the CERT advisory. CERT had initially scored the flaw's severity with a 10, the maximum in the Common Vulnerability Scoring System. The main reason that the true severity was lower is that the exploit—which stems from a null pointer dereference bug in version 3 of Microsoft's server message block file server protocol—could only cause servers to crash as opposed to forcing them to execute malicious code. Another reason: to be exploited by an attacker on the Internet, a target would have to configure vulnerable servers to maintain an outgoing file share. That's something almost no security-conscious organization does. CERT later removed the code-execution wording from the advisory and downgraded the severity score from 10 to 7.8.

But Windows users had no way of knowing that from Microsoft's statement. Instead of providing useful information, the company made patently false claims that operating systems from Microsoft competitors—Apple and Linux maintainers, for example—don't adhere to the same commitment to security that Windows does. This is demonstrably false. Even worse, the statement left open the mistaken impression that Windows 10 wasn't vulnerable. This is clearly not the case. Indeed, the name of the proof-of-concept exploit that was published on Wednesday is Win10.py. An updated statement issued Friday abandoned the advice to use Windows 10 and Edge, but it didn't say why, and the WE Communications employee wouldn't elaborate.

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Message 1846388 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 3:38:56 UTC
Last modified: 4 Feb 2017, 3:39:46 UTC

ozz, just because microsoft's specs claim the OS can run on the same hardware, does not mean it would run well on the same hardware. Microsoft has a loong history of low-balling the minimum required specs, and if you use the minimum required specs as your guideline, 'you're gonna have a bad time'... hmmkay.

I for one won't put windows 10 on existing hardware I own, only new machines.
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Message 1846394 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 4:19:36 UTC


I for one won't put windows 10 on existing hardware I own, only new machines.

Exactly Ex. ;-)

Some may love having the latest and greatest, but some of us actually use our specially setup PC's to earn money with and unwarranted/unnecessary OS upgrades can interfere greatly with that earning capacity and incur other software costs involved with a new OS.

Just because my current hardware can easily handle Win10 doesn't mean that it's a good idea to waste $'s and time on upgrading to it at this point in time, but some people just can't seem to understand that and must question 1's personal decision on the matter.

Cheers.
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Message 1846397 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 4:28:15 UTC

One has to wonder if all of these 'improvements' by hardware and software produces is just a form of market manipulation.
The games market seems to 'insist' that you need all the latest gizmo's to enjoy the experience, but in most cases a 10 year old core 2 duo CPU with 4 Gbyte of DDR2 RAM and a 5 year old GPU on a 16:9, 1920 * 1080, Monitor works fine.
Similarly with TV's, 4K only works if you buy one 55" or bigger and sit about 5' away at max.
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Message 1846457 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 12:09:04 UTC - in response to Message 1846016.  

while Win7 is far better than Win10 still!

So, when do we stop making stupid designs?!


I would whole-heartedly disagree. I prefer Win10 over Win7, and I loved Win7 when it came out. Sure, it has it's share of quirks and bugs like all software does. But I'm really loving the advancement built into Win10, many of which I'd have to use third-party stuff in Win7 to get the same functionality. The interface feels snappier to me, and more modern to boot!

Oh wait, Win10 is the newest OS from MS, so it's the one to hate. Just like XP before it, and Vista before that (another great OS that never recovered from negative perception), and 98 before both. I guess it'll take a few years before people finally warm up to it. Living a life of hating change has really got to suck eventually. Life is nothing but change. You move with it or get left behind.

Well, you forgot there are some strange quirks in Win10...like 2 different Control Panels (Settings & Control panel), with 2 different designs!

Then, when you enable Cortana, you can't turn her OFF! (So my computers now ask for a PIN or password EVERY TIME it boots up...)

Using automatic update of drivers as Win10 sees fit...which gives some head-aches to some of us using GPUs on SETi@home!

etc.


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Message 1846464 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 13:00:41 UTC

The original purpose for these series of threads was to highlight the good & bad of technology with some light relief moments that it can provide :-)

With much of it, an O/S is needed however, there are some threads that prominently deal with O/S issues, so can you please use those threads to discuss those issues. Thanks.
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Message 1846469 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 13:08:09 UTC


Well, you forgot there are some strange quirks in Win10...like 2 different Control Panels (Settings & Control panel), with 2 different designs!

Then, when you enable Cortana, you can't turn her OFF! (So my computers now ask for a PIN or password EVERY TIME it boots up...)

Using automatic update of drivers as Win10 sees fit...which gives some head-aches to some of us using GPUs on SETi@home!

etc.

That's why I'd go with Win10 Pro as you can impose limits on any problem while the Home version you just have to live with them. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1846506 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 15:32:13 UTC - in response to Message 1846388.  

ozz, just because microsoft's specs claim the OS can run on the same hardware, does not mean it would run well on the same hardware. Microsoft has a loong history of low-balling the minimum required specs, and if you use the minimum required specs as your guideline, 'you're gonna have a bad time'... hmmkay.

I for one won't put windows 10 on existing hardware I own, only new machines.


While that may generally be true of the past, the power of machines have generally plateaued in recent years. Even the 7th Gen Intel processors are no more powerful than their 6th Gen counterparts.

I, for one, have had no problems running Windows 10 on a 10 year old Core 2 Quad running at 2.33GHz. You can't always assume what was true in the past will always be true in the future. Try to test some of your own assumptions some time. You might be surprised.
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Message 1846507 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 15:37:20 UTC - in response to Message 1846457.  

Well, you forgot there are some strange quirks in Win10...like 2 different Control Panels (Settings & Control panel), with 2 different designs!


Why do you assume I forgot that? I never said Windows 10 was perfect.

Then, when you enable Cortana, you can't turn her OFF! (So my computers now ask for a PIN or password EVERY TIME it boots up...)


Why would you want to turn her off? And why is she asking for a PIN? Mine doesn't.

Using automatic update of drivers as Win10 sees fit...which gives some head-aches to some of us using GPUs on SETi@home!


Sure, but the SETI crowd is but a small subset of the number of Windows 10 users, and the number of people who optimize their rigs and drivers just to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of their machine is an even smaller number of SETI users. Microsoft can't release an OS suited just for them. However, I do believe the situation will get better going forward, especially if the GPU-app writers start conforming to OpenCL specs were the driver itself shouldn't matter so much.
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Message 1846509 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017, 15:43:28 UTC - in response to Message 1846394.  

Some may love having the latest and greatest, but some of us actually use our specially setup PC's to earn money with and unwarranted/unnecessary OS upgrades can interfere greatly with that earning capacity and incur other software costs involved with a new OS.


I earn my living deploying and patching Windows for a corporation so they can earn money doing business. They were quite shocked to see how well Windows 10 ran on their Lenovo T410 laptops from circa 2009.

Just because my current hardware can easily handle Win10 doesn't mean that it's a good idea to waste $'s and time on upgrading to it at this point in time, but some people just can't seem to understand that and must question 1's personal decision on the matter.


Our company had to waste money on upgrades because we switched anti-virus products and our new one requires a minimum of 512MB of RAM above and beyond anything the OS or applications are doing!

Perhaps "some" people can understand it is a personal decision on the matter, and are perfectly OK if such a reason were presented. Perhaps "other" people need to listen to "some" who might actually know what they're talking about. If not, then "some" people can only conclude "others" don't like being challenged.
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