Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#3)

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Message 1689694 - Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 7:59:56 UTC - in response to Message 1689514.  
Last modified: 10 Jun 2015, 8:00:22 UTC

Pop culture is just one area that does enforce patriarchal ideas. Video games do promote the idea that women are objects, but so do many other things, they are just part of the problem. Her ideas can be applied in many other places, such as movies, TV, news media. She writes about gaming because that is where her interest lies and there really is a problem with sexism in gaming.

Well yeah, but part of her claim is that games influence the way people think and act. That pop culture influences the way people think and act. I don't think that is true, I think that pop culture merely represents the views that we already have. So in a patriarchy any piece of pop culture will automatically contain a number of sexist aspects. So games don't make people sexist, they only represent views that we already have.

Now that definitely needs to be called out, and I do think she does a great job at pointing out sexist tropes used in a lot of games. That is why I like her videos. Like I said, I only disagree with her on an academic level on part of her claim.

From a recent conversation with my niece who is studying a computing degree at the moment, the problem is really bad. So much so that it is causing her problems and I am concerned for her safety. She told me that at a recent coding competition she took part in some really vile things were said to her by other competitors.

Sadly not the first story I would hear about the toxicity of the games industry when it comes to women. I do hope that as it becomes more and more accepted in mainstream culture that women enjoy games just as much as men, the games industry also becomes more open to women.

You might not agree with Anita Sarkeesian's research and any issues with it need to be discussed in an academic framework, but the fact that the response has been death and rape threats over it suggests there really is a big problem...and its not a problem merely associated with gaming. It happens in a lot of online spaces.

Yeah, those idiots instantly validated her point about sexism in games and gaming culture. Again, which is why I think Anita Sarkeesian does a great job in exposing sexism in games and with gaming culture in general.
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Message 1689774 - Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 12:49:04 UTC - in response to Message 1689570.  

Today, I finally lost all faith in the Justice System of this country & in light of what happened, will forever more take feminism with a pinch of salt. Feeling totally saddened & dejected at the moment as I've only just returned from the Crown Court.

I'm having a cuppa & trying to regain composure & will post my views when done so.

Please note that my posts will be extensive & that I am aware of the professionals that will be mentioned have a job to do.

What annoyed me, the victim & her family as well as many others was the manner in which that job was carried out.

I look forward to hearing about how this terrible thing is all the fault of feminism.

What? Where have I blamed feminism? I think you need to get off that "feminist high horse". You should have waited until you saw the relevant posts before making unwarranted assumptions. It's been a hectic day & I need to collate all my notes into a recognisable summary.



Feminist high horse is it? You can't think of any reason why I might have got the impression that you thought the problem was with feminism? Not one?


Be back later with those posts.
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Message 1689807 - Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 15:01:48 UTC - in response to Message 1689774.  
Last modified: 10 Jun 2015, 15:02:29 UTC


What? Where have I blamed feminism? I think you need to get off that "feminist high horse". You should have waited until you saw the relevant posts before making unwarranted assumptions. It's been a hectic day & I need to collate all my notes into a recognisable summary.



Feminist high horse is it? You can't think of any reason why I might have got the impression that you thought the problem was with feminism? Not one?


Be back later with those posts.

...and I look forward to seeing why you now take feminism with a pinch of salt and how your ordeal has caused this.
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Message 1689868 - Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 18:20:30 UTC

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Message 1689936 - Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 21:58:55 UTC - in response to Message 1689868.  

In the mean time a hairy subject:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/chinese-feminists-fight-body-hair-freedom-n373096

Dear goddess, are we still having to fight this fight?
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Message 1689960 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 0:52:34 UTC - in response to Message 1689399.  

You are right, I am looking at it through a microscope.

Yes, the one that assumes the child must be enrolled in that particular religious school. The one that assumes the father will abuse the mother, or abduct the child, if the child has to go to a different school. The one that assumes the school is too far for the American Experience of walking 5 miles to school, uphill both ways through snow. Then there is another American Experience of forced busing being sent to a school ten miles away to meet a racial quota. Yes, likely because this is a religious school and not a public one, some of the children live a fair distance away, but sending the child to that particular school is a choice, and not all choices are without consequence.

It has become very clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. or even what I am talking about.

I am not assuming anything. I am only aware that once you take away choice, it makes people vulnerable to abuse. I am not saying that anyone will behave in one way or another, I am saying that if they do, you have put people in a situation where they can do very little about it.

Choice was not taken away, only your perception, perhaps colored by your life experience, that choice was taken away.

I was going to try to explain to you how this can be viewed from an understanding of abusive relationships and the signs of abusive relationship and how your version of libertarianism fosters abusive situations and power imbalances. However, after reading this article I think that is the way you like it. You want the power imbalance because it tilts in your favour.

Libertarianism Is For White Men: The Ugly Truth About the Right’s Favorite Movement
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Message 1689971 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 1:43:07 UTC - in response to Message 1689807.  


What? Where have I blamed feminism? I think you need to get off that "feminist high horse". You should have waited until you saw the relevant posts before making unwarranted assumptions. It's been a hectic day & I need to collate all my notes into a recognisable summary.



Feminist high horse is it? You can't think of any reason why I might have got the impression that you thought the problem was with feminism? Not one?


Be back later with those posts.

...and I look forward to seeing why you now take feminism with a pinch of salt and how your ordeal has caused this.

Me too.

Also: Can we stop the shouting?
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1689977 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 2:00:43 UTC - in response to Message 1689868.  
Last modified: 11 Jun 2015, 2:02:43 UTC

In the mean time a hairy subject:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/chinese-feminists-fight-body-hair-freedom-n373096

Italian actress and style icon Sophia Loren poses in 1955 in front of the camera - with underarm hair. :)
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Message 1690013 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 4:45:10 UTC - in response to Message 1689960.  

I was going to try to explain to you how this can be viewed from an understanding of abusive relationships and the signs of abusive relationship and how your version of libertarianism fosters abusive situations and power imbalances. However, after reading this article I think that is the way you like it. You want the power imbalance because it tilts in your favour.

Libertarianism Is For White Men: The Ugly Truth About the Right’s Favorite Movement

There is an issue with that study and a huge one. Tea party a$$hole$ self identify as libertarians, but they were thrown out of the LP. As that study asks people to self identify, rather than asking the questions to accurately identify them, it is biased by the Tea drinkers who are desperate to co-opt anyone into their view as they are so foul and hated except for their tax policy.

FYI the tea drinkers are overwhelmingly for restrictions on abortion while the LP is overwhelmingly against restrictions on abortion. I think you will find a similar metric on drugs, gay marriage and the whole host of other social issues.
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Message 1690067 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 9:00:21 UTC - in response to Message 1690013.  

There is an issue with that study and a huge one. Tea party a$$hole$ self identify as libertarians, but they were thrown out of the LP. As that study asks people to self identify, rather than asking the questions to accurately identify them, it is biased by the Tea drinkers who are desperate to co-opt anyone into their view as they are so foul and hated except for their tax policy.

FYI the tea drinkers are overwhelmingly for restrictions on abortion while the LP is overwhelmingly against restrictions on abortion. I think you will find a similar metric on drugs, gay marriage and the whole host of other social issues.

Pretty sure the MRA, Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs, gamer-gate etc crowd are not actually part of the Tea Party. But those are still predominantly white men.

And whether you self identify as a Libertarian or not is not a weakness of the study. What matters is how people perceive what Libertarianism stands for and whether they self identify with that perception. If a lot of racists self identify as Libertarian, it means that a lot of racists think that Libertarianism supports their racists views. Of course, the Libertarian party may disagree, but the Libertarian party is not the arbiter that decides whats Libertarianism and what isn't.
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Message 1690080 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 10:43:55 UTC

A quick summary of the case. An illegal immigrant(not relevant to the case itself, but it became so), charged with 3 counts of rape(the details too graphic & disgusting to mention). According to the officials concerned, a rape case normally take 4/5 days, this one took 11 & for no good reason. There were 7 females & 5 males serving on the jury.

Here in the UK, it is down to the prosecution to prove a case, in this one, they did an excellent job. Unfortunately, the defendant was found not guilty on all counts. One thing I learned from this trial was that one gets 2 shots at jury service(apparently most cases do not take longer than 1 week) & in this case, that jury will never serve again.

The case actually came to court last Monday week but for two days, just sat in the courthouse due to a trial running over (just like this one) & started being heard 2 hours late on Wednesday. The problems began on the Friday when the defence realised that the prosecution, in effect, proved the case.

From that point on, the defence prattled on about the defendants immigration status to such a degree that by the following Wed afternoon, the judge had heard enough & informed the court after excusing the jury & witness on the stand at that time, that unless she stated facts that were relevant to the case, he will dismiss the case & order a re-trial (He excused the jury & witnesses many times over those 3 days, every time to inform the defence that the defendant's immigration statue is not relevant to this case).

Thursday morning, the prosecution made their closing argument & it was a good one. The defence followed & she still got in some points regarding the defendants immigration status. That ended at 12:44 so the judge called an early lunch with his summary to come after. He did an excellent summary then rather than give the jury directions as required by law, adjourned until Friday as it was now too late to give the jury directions & send them out for their deliberations.

During those 4 days last week, there were two females that totally dismayed the men & women at that trial, the Defence Barrister & the STO (Specially Trained Officer)

TBC
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Message 1690084 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 11:10:19 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jun 2015, 11:13:58 UTC

The STO.

While doing her job on this case, she had to interview the victim which took some time. during the course of one of the interviews, the victim made her statement but the STO interrupted many times stating that some parts of her statement are irrelevant. That came back to haunt her as both the prosecution, the victim & her family have forwarded an official complaint, the gist of which is that the STO is not a judge, QC (Queen's Counsel) or jury & that her role as an STO needs reviewing. The reason for that complaint is that the parts of the victims statement that she deemed irrelevant was brought up in court by the defence who cut the victim to shreds.

I've known that lovely family for over 13 years & that had me in tears. The victim is a lovely quiet spoken young woman & did not deserve that.

Most men know that there are many women out there who dislike being told what to do or wear as they have their own mindset (& fair comment, it's their right). However, one's attitude and respect for certain "formalities" takes precedent over their views. Her attitude, mannerisms & body language spoke volumes & it came to a head last Friday shortly after the jury were sent out. The family & I were sitting in the court building's waiting area & I was talking directly to the victim's sister when the STO talked across me in a sneering manner asking if she could have a word with the sister.

When that was done, she gave me a dirty look to which I replied & called her an ignorant ***ch. She took offence at that & mouthed off until I told her how she should have acted:-
"Excuse me, may I have a word with Miss X?" She went red then I passed a comment on her manner of dress & to appear in a crown court for such a serious offence warrants some respect. She went redder & walked away.

Another woman who attended that trial for 7 out of the 11 days approached me & thanked me. When I asked as to why, I was told that the STO was a colleague of hers & that she has caused no end of problems due to her feminist attitude. That was the impression everyone had of her throughout that trial & to have it confirmed by another female...

Edited for spelling mistakes.
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Message 1690086 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 11:55:25 UTC

The Defence Barrister.

By the end of the first week, what we had heard was (IMV) absolutely disgusting. I know men & women have their own fantasies but feel that decent men & women do not have any vile ones & hold none where either party can be injured or disgusted. To see & hear that there are those who do...

Monday morning we all arrive at the Crown Court only to be told that the case had been bumped to a smaller Crown Courtroom at the Magistrates Court, so walked over (only a couple of minutes away).

The defence now started cross examining the final witness & that's when matters started going pear shaped & continued for the next 3 days. Rather than concentrate on the charges against her client, for 3 whole days, we heard nothing but questions regarding his immigration status. The main sticking point of her defence was a statement made to the police regarding the defendant: -

She hoped that the Immigration Authorities end up deporting him. The "attacks" on the victim & her family because of that were unbelievable. Even I realised that one would say things they may regret later when in a highly emotional & agitated state which seems to have escaped the defence barrister's mind. It was at this point that the damning medical evidence was glossed over.

The victim suffers from Lupus & at the time of count 1, she was under heavy medication as it was not long after giving birth. The charges: 1 count of vaginal rape & 2 counts of anal rape, with counts 1 & 3 being anal rape.

I will not go into graphic detail but the medical evidence clearly showed this had occurred. Next came sex videos. The defendant claimed that they had watched a sex video as provided in our schools that showed the act of sexual intercourse & that they also portrayed anal sex. Now I know sex education has progressed much since my day, but showing buggery? I very much doubt it.

It was at this stage in the proceedings that the judge excused the witness & jury for the last time to chastise the defence. When they returned, the defence had one last question & stood down. Looking at the time, the judge called it a day stating that the next day he would allow counsel to make their closing arguments in the morning session with his summing up in the afternoon.

After the jury had been sent out on Friday morning, the family & I sat in the cafeteria. While having our second coffee, the prosecution barrister joined us & during the course of that conversation I mentioned the conduct of the defence. Shrugging his shoulders he told us that she is known for that & this time the judge is making a report regarding that conduct. Regardless of what case it is or whether it is female or male, she is only concerned with making a name for herself & is known within the CPS for that.

She will not follow procedures, does not like being told what to do & has been chastised by several of her female colleagues. I wonder why?

Lunch time after which will make one more post regarding women's attitudes then explain why I will take feminism with a pinch of salt.
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Message 1690114 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 13:49:43 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jun 2015, 13:49:59 UTC

Understand Sirius B. But...

Having read your entire Posts, and understanding I have neither the Experience, nor Education, regarding your Legal System:

Whatever she, and other women involved did. Doesn't implicate the majority.

You are pointing a Broad Brush at Feminism, as many Feminists (guess who I am referring to) also Paint a Broad Brush.

Two wrongs, don't make a right.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton
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Message 1690116 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 13:52:53 UTC - in response to Message 1690114.  
Last modified: 11 Jun 2015, 14:17:26 UTC

Understand Sirius B. But...

Having read your entire Posts, and understanding I have neither the Experience, nor Education, regarding your Legal System:

Whatever she, and other women involved did. Doesn't implicate the majority.

You are pointing a Broad Brush at Feminism, as many Feminists (guess who I am referring to) also Paint a Broad Brush.

Two wrongs, don't make a right.

Another one who can't read...

Lunch time after which will make one more post regarding women's attitudes then explain why I will take feminism with a pinch of salt.


The word I clearly shows "my view" & just like a defence or prosecution, it's up to the feminists to convince me otherwise.

Be back shortly...

...ran out of milk & I enjoy my tea & coffee.
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Message 1690124 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 14:42:09 UTC

Got a judge with no balls. Should have found a barrister in contempt and had them preparing their case from a cell. Its called contempt of court.
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Message 1690128 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 14:44:01 UTC

Mother & Daughter referred to in previous posts (not the 2 involved in the trial)

Friday afternoon of that first week. Rather than let me get the bus home, the family took me as they could see I was pretty shocked as by then, all the graphic details had come out.

On entering my home, all I wanted to do was curl up on the sofa with a nice coffee & cigarette to analyse what I had heard to ensure that whenever I was at that family's home, I do not say something that may hurt the girls. I'm pretty sure that most of us have said something without having thought first, I wished to avoid that. Ran out of milk so went to my local shop.

On the way back, I heard my name called in a manner that gave me goosebumps. It was the daughter wobbly on her legs. Her & her mother had a tremendous argument a short time earlier & she felt she had enough & couldn't cope anymore so took an overdose of pills.

I immediately called the emergency services (If anyone here thinks this is all B/S. all calls are noted & this one will show my mobile number with date & time of call). This was approx. 16:00 that Friday.

I held that girl & walked her to my home as I informed the emergency services of that. I was told that was the correct thing to do in keeping her active & awake (I already knew that which is why I did so).

On the way, we passed her mother's boyfriends home where both of them came out on seeing us. The smackhead came out with a beer in his hand & the mother told him in a severe manner to take the booze back inside. Both mother & daughter entered my home all the while I was talking to the ambulance controller. Getting the daughter to provide personal details & her consent for them to contact her doctor, with the provisio that if her condition worsens to call them back, at that point the call ended.

The vitriol coming from the mother was unbelievable. Actually told her daughter she should have succeeded in topping herself as she is interfering with her mother's life.

Made them tea & while they were drinking my doorbell rang, it was the smackhead demanding he come in - I made short thrift of that which the mother screamed

"He's not an f'ing smackhead" & left my home calling out to her daughter as she left.

I thought that was the end of that matter. Unfortunately I was wrong. Last Wednesday evening while cooking dinner, I saw a police vehicle pull up outside & thought it was for the neighbours being druggies. It was not, it was for me.

Letting the 2 officers in, they asked if I knew anything regarding an incident early Friday evening. I thought they were referring to the above, again I was wrong. It was for an incident that occurred 2 hours later that evening. They thanked for me that information & let me know what had happened.

The mother having had enough of the daughter called the police to remove her daughter from her boyfriends home & in the process the daughter was arrested. It occurred again that Sunday evening. As seen by previous posts, the week went the way it did.
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Message 1690133 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 15:06:20 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jun 2015, 15:13:23 UTC

Taking feminism with a pinch of salt.

Before I give my explanation, I have to mention the mother & daughter again. To be honest, I did not think I would see either of them again. Shortly after arriving home in a dismayed condition from the Crown Court after hearing that verdict, my doorbell rang. It was the mother & I was really not in any mood to take her B/S.

Unfortunately (Fool I may be), I let her in & she asked if her daughter could come in also. The mother hugged me, kissed my cheek & said that she has missed me. To be honest, I did miss her as well - saying that though, she has done more than enough damage for me to ever consider anything.

After making us all a coffee, I told her quite frankly that she is a lovely attractive woman & has a lovely bubbly character but that a mistake made more than once is not a mistake but a decision & a decision that she has made 6 times already & that there is no way in hell will I be a fail safe option for her. That did not go down well & they left, hopefully for good to save me the expense of seeking a restraining order.

These are just two examples & over the past 40 years have seen many such cases with some unfortunately being within my own family. Too many just go ahead & do as they please & have no regard for the consequences.

From what I have seen over those years regarding feminists, all have one fatal flaw.

They for whatever reason crave equality & deservedly so. however the ones that reached the pinnacle in a "man's world" have ended up corrupted by that pinnacle of power & money & rather than use that pinnacle to stand up for women worldwide, enjoy their trappings.

Where feminism has gone wrong in that rather than pee off the majority of men & a substantial number of women, they should have done it quietly enough with women such as that mother & daughter. In doing so, they could have become a powerful force large enough to make the patriarchal society sit up & take notice & just like in the past, matters could have taken a turn for the better.

All I can see from feminism is that they want to change that patriarchal society & my perception of that is "Do they want to change it to a matriarchal one?" With the current attitudes, just what would the difference actually be? From what I've seen & heard over the years, it would just be as bad as the society we have now.

My answer then? I don't have one, but it would be nice if someone came up with answer that can actually work in practice.

Edit. Have to add this.

While at that victim's home on Monday, her little daughter who is a beautiful bundle of joy came running to me for me to brush her hair. Did so & within a minute or two, had her asleep. Done that often in the past. The family called me late that night thanking me for all the support I gave them & genuinely appreciated my attending the court with them, as their menfolk were against all of this - they don't even see women as 2nd class but as serfs to cater for all their whims & needs.

At the end of the call, both girls thanked me for being the father they never had & that choked me (just a big softy, that's me).
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Message 1690134 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 15:07:30 UTC - in response to Message 1690124.  

Got a judge with no balls. Should have found a barrister in contempt and had them preparing their case from a cell. Its called contempt of court.

Many in the courtroom by the Wednesday thought that would happen. Unfortunately it did not.
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Message 1690148 - Posted: 11 Jun 2015, 15:49:41 UTC - in response to Message 1690133.  

Taking feminism with a pinch of salt.

Before I give my explanation, I have to mention the mother & daughter again. To be honest, I did not think I would see either of them again. Shortly after arriving home in a dismayed condition from the Crown Court after hearing that verdict, my doorbell rang. It was the mother & I was really not in any mood to take her B/S.

Unfortunately (Fool I may be), I let her in & she asked if her daughter could come in also. The mother hugged me, kissed my cheek & said that she has missed me. To be honest, I did miss her as well - saying that though, she has done more than enough damage for me to ever consider anything.

After making us all a coffee, I told her quite frankly that she is a lovely attractive woman & has a lovely bubbly character but that a mistake made more than once is not a mistake but a decision & a decision that she has made 6 times already & that there is no way in hell will I be a fail safe option for her. That did not go down well & they left, hopefully for good to save me the expense of seeking a restraining order.

These are just two examples & over the past 40 years have seen many such cases with some unfortunately being within my own family. Too many just go ahead & do as they please & have no regard for the consequences.

From what I have seen over those years regarding feminists, all have one fatal flaw.

They for whatever reason crave equality & deservedly so. however the ones that reached the pinnacle in a "man's world" have ended up corrupted by that pinnacle of power & money & rather than use that pinnacle to stand up for women worldwide, enjoy their trappings.

Where feminism has gone wrong in that rather than pee off the majority of men & a substantial number of women, they should have done it quietly enough with women such as that mother & daughter. In doing so, they could have become a powerful force large enough to make the patriarchal society sit up & take notice & just like in the past, matters could have taken a turn for the better.

All I can see from feminism is that they want to change that patriarchal society & my perception of that is "Do they want to change it to a matriarchal one?" With the current attitudes, just what would the difference actually be? From what I've seen & heard over the years, it would just be as bad as the society we have now.

My answer then? I don't have one, but it would be nice if someone came up with answer that can actually work in practice.

Edit. Have to add this.

While at that victim's home on Monday, her little daughter who is a beautiful bundle of joy came running to me for me to brush her hair. Did so & within a minute or two, had her asleep. Done that often in the past. The family called me late that night thanking me for all the support I gave them & genuinely appreciated my attending the court with them, as their menfolk were against all of this - they don't even see women as 2nd class but as serfs to cater for all their whims & needs.

At the end of the call, both girls thanked me for being the father they never had & that choked me (just a big softy, that's me).

Sirius, Have read all your postings and am not surprised at the nature of the court case. It is something feminists have complained about in rape cases that is a major problem. Rape seems to be the only crime where the victim and her character is on trial.

I have not been able to understand your point as to why feminism is to blame for anything. Perhaps you could clarify. From what I understand the defendants lawyers wasn't very nice. Are all women supposed to be nice and how is that the fault of feminism that she wasn't? Is she supposed to be on the side of all women and not give her client all the help she can?

I am sorry you have had to go through this, truly I really do understand how stressful such occasions are. It is thanks to feminism that rape is even treated as seriously as it is, however, it is very clear from your postings that feminists still have a lot more work to do.
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Message boards : Politics : Against ALL women - Infanticide, Slavery, Rape, Trafficking... (#3)


 
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