Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 1926407 - Posted: 24 Mar 2018, 21:43:30 UTC - in response to Message 1926378.  

well, when I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10, my box would no longer get on the web. Plus, I hate Cortana and all the spyware on Win 10, so I dumped it and installed Linux Mint 18.2. Free, LibreOffice is compatible with Win Office, and BOINC runs fine with no more tweaking than with Win

Hi Oliver,

I just installed Windows 10 on an 8th generation Z370 build and had no problems. I did the install from a bootable flash drive. It's Windows 10 v1709. I used a utility called Rufus to burn it to the flash drive.

I have found out that you cannot uninstall things like Cortana, Edge, etc. this will break Windows 10. They can only be disabled. I have also found out that most, if not all, of the spying can be stopped. SpyBot has a program called Anti-Beacon that will disable all of the telemetry and stop Windows 10 in it's tracks.

I will be building myself an 8th generation Z370 machine and will be installing Windows 10 simply because Windows 7 just was not designed to run on current technology, not to mention that to install it on Coffee Lake will be a headache.

Believe it or not Windows 10, despite the spying and data mining and the antics Micro$oft pulls to get it on every device in the universe, is the best OS to date from Redmond. It has a new kernel and is not a resource hog like the Windows before 7.

Just some food for thought... :)

Siran
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Message 1926410 - Posted: 24 Mar 2018, 21:57:50 UTC - in response to Message 1926407.  

well, when I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10, my box would no longer get on the web. Plus, I hate Cortana and all the spyware on Win 10, so I dumped it and installed Linux Mint 18.2. Free, LibreOffice is compatible with Win Office, and BOINC runs fine with no more tweaking than with Win

Hi Oliver,

I just installed Windows 10 on an 8th generation Z370 build and had no problems. I did the install from a bootable flash drive. It's Windows 10 v1709. I used a utility called Rufus to burn it to the flash drive.

I have found out that you cannot uninstall things like Cortana, Edge, etc. this will break Windows 10. They can only be disabled. I have also found out that most, if not all, of the spying can be stopped. SpyBot has a program called Anti-Beacon that will disable all of the telemetry and stop Windows 10 in it's tracks.

I will be building myself an 8th generation Z370 machine and will be installing Windows 10 simply because Windows 7 just was not designed to run on current technology, not to mention that to install it on Coffee Lake will be a headache.

Believe it or not Windows 10, despite the spying and data mining and the antics Micro$oft pulls to get it on every device in the universe, is the best OS to date from Redmond. It has a new kernel and is not a resource hog like the Windows before 7.

Just some food for thought... :)

Siran


Wrong Siran.

Win 10 is based on the same kernel like win 7 so nothing really new.
Also you can install win 7 on some of the new hardware like i did on my Ryzen build.
You just need to use some tricks.
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Message 1926419 - Posted: 24 Mar 2018, 22:30:50 UTC - in response to Message 1926410.  

Win 10 is based on the same kernel like win 7 so nothing really new.

It is based on the same Kernel, but it is not the same Kernel.
There have been many changes to the kernel, some quite substantial. Some new features include: NUMA hardware support, new IO completion notification methods, scatter gather IO, thread pools (the implementation rewritten at least once), hibernate and sleep state support, desktop virtualisation. Other changes include printer drivers moved from kernel mode to user mode, a window manager was introduced, most graphics moved from user mode into kernel mode,


Reference.
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Message 1926424 - Posted: 24 Mar 2018, 22:41:58 UTC - in response to Message 1926419.  

Win 10 is based on the same kernel like win 7 so nothing really new.

It is based on the same Kernel, but it is not the same Kernel.
There have been many changes to the kernel, some quite substantial. Some new features include: NUMA hardware support, new IO completion notification methods, scatter gather IO, thread pools (the implementation rewritten at least once), hibernate and sleep state support, desktop virtualisation. Other changes include printer drivers moved from kernel mode to user mode, a window manager was introduced, most graphics moved from user mode into kernel mode,


Reference.


Yep, same like some viruses.
Just change a few characters and its a new one.
I can handle it like i want to.
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Message 1926528 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 10:51:17 UTC - in response to Message 1926410.  

well, when I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10, my box would no longer get on the web. Plus, I hate Cortana and all the spyware on Win 10, so I dumped it and installed Linux Mint 18.2. Free, LibreOffice is compatible with Win Office, and BOINC runs fine with no more tweaking than with Win

Hi Oliver,

I just installed Windows 10 on an 8th generation Z370 build and had no problems. I did the install from a bootable flash drive. It's Windows 10 v1709. I used a utility called Rufus to burn it to the flash drive.

I have found out that you cannot uninstall things like Cortana, Edge, etc. this will break Windows 10. They can only be disabled. I have also found out that most, if not all, of the spying can be stopped. SpyBot has a program called Anti-Beacon that will disable all of the telemetry and stop Windows 10 in it's tracks.

I will be building myself an 8th generation Z370 machine and will be installing Windows 10 simply because Windows 7 just was not designed to run on current technology, not to mention that to install it on Coffee Lake will be a headache.

Believe it or not Windows 10, despite the spying and data mining and the antics Micro$oft pulls to get it on every device in the universe, is the best OS to date from Redmond. It has a new kernel and is not a resource hog like the Windows before 7.

Just some food for thought... :)

Siran


Wrong Siran.

Win 10 is based on the same kernel like win 7 so nothing really new.
Also you can install win 7 on some of the new hardware like i did on my Ryzen build.
You just need to use some tricks.

Hi Mike,

I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos from a guy that worked for Micro$oft for 15 years as a software developer. In each of his videos about or mentioning Windows 10 he says the kernel is new. It may be based on Win 7's kernel, but Jerry says it is virtually a new kernel.

Also, I know that Win 7 can be installed on current technology, Intel generations 6, 7 and 8 (not sure about the i9); I mentioned that to install it would be a headache. Windows 7 was not designed to run on the new tech, that's why it's a headache to install. Think about it, M.2 drives didn't exist when 7 was designed. One also gets a headache trying to get Win 7 updates when running on the new tech. Unfortunately, Windows 10 is the OS of the future unless the Linux community can get Linux to run Windows apps much more efficiently.

Have a great day, Mike. :)

Siran
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Message 1926532 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 11:10:53 UTC
Last modified: 25 Mar 2018, 11:11:38 UTC

I had no problems installing windows 7 on my M2 drive at all.
Took me about 10 minutes.
The only issue is lack of USB3 drivers that`s all.
So i created an USB drive with win 7 and USB3 drivers included.
Of course not all motherboards have them included like Asus for the C6H.
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Message 1926541 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 11:53:02 UTC - in response to Message 1926407.  
Last modified: 25 Mar 2018, 11:54:00 UTC

Believe it or not Windows 10, despite the spying and data mining and the antics Micro$oft pulls to get it on every device in the universe, is the best OS to date from Redmond. It has a new kernel and is not a resource hog like the Windows before 7.
Wonder what changed since December 17 (and January 7th), when you said:
I have divorced myself from as many M$ apps as possible. I prefer Open Office, Firefox and other software over anything the girls and boys in Redmond offer.
Yep!

My only M$ software is the OS: Win7 Pro 64bit. That's only because it's a pain in the you-know-what to try to get Windoze programs to run in Wine on Linux.

I swear by Firefox. Started using it when it first came out and haven't looked back. Oh, I have tried others: Opera, Chrome (hate it with a passion), that browser put out by Apple (cannot remember it's name), and when I tried Win10 I tried Edge. Back to Win7 and Firefox I went.

Siran

Also,
I have found out that you cannot uninstall things like Cortana, Edge, etc. this will break Windows 10. They can only be disabled. I have also found out that most, if not all, of the spying can be stopped. SpyBot has a program called Anti-Beacon that will disable all of the telemetry and stop Windows 10 in its tracks. stop with the extra apostrophe, there's none in its when you point at the possessive form of this pronoun.
Best watch out with disabling the telemetry, because when you do, it could easily be that in a near future Microsoft decides that your system needs an update, even if you do not want it, even if you have Windows Update disabled: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3261570/microsoft-windows/microsoft-forces-win10-1709-upgrades-on-pcs-set-to-restrict-telemetry.html

That's Win10 1607 and 1703 users who were forced to upgrade to Windows 10 Fall Creators Update, even on hardware that doesn't support 1709. When you try to revert back to the previous version, once that's done, it'll start the update again, and again, and again. The update will also start without warning, like in the first days of Windows 10 updates. Have a fun couple of days in which you cannot use your computer at all, because --what did you call it?-- the best OS to date from Redmond has to be forced upon your computer, because they say so.

Until they stop with these aggressive tactics, it's not coming on any of my systems.
And up till January 7th you said it wouldn't on yours either, so I really wonder what happened in these 3 months in between, that you went from adamant against to fanboi for. Did they pay you?
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Message 1926554 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 14:49:48 UTC - in response to Message 1926541.  

Until they stop with these aggressive tactics, it's not coming on any of my systems.
And up till January 7th you said it wouldn't on yours either, so I really wonder what happened in these 3 months in between, that you went from adamant against to fanboi for. Did they pay you?


I am no fanboy of Micro$oft. >_<

Over the past 3 to 5 weeks I have been watching tech videos on YouTube from 2 guys: one has a 25 year business building and maintaining PCs for companies, the other a 15 year former Micro$oft software developer. They have convinced me that Windows 10 IS the best OS from Micro$oft despite the spying, telemetry and bloatware and Micro$oft's aggressive moves to get Win 10 on every device on the planet.

"Windows 10" is the name of the OS, not the version. The latest version of Windows 10 is 1709. Micro$oft will push out a new version of Windows 10 in the Spring and the Fall. 1709 is the Fall version: September 2017, hence 1709. I believe the Spring version will come out in April which will make the new version 1804.

I am no fanboy, I have just been convinced that the OS, Windows 10, is better, more stable, less of a resource hog, etc. than previous Windows. It is Micro$oft's brute force tactics to get everyone on Windows 10, all the data mining and sharing of that data that I am totally against. I have also found that Micro$oft is putting PUPS (potentially unwanted programs) on users PCs. Candy Crush is one that I can think of off hand. Talk about bloatware! Microsoft, just give us the OS and not the other garbage!

I burned Windows 10 1709 to a flash drive with a utility called Rufus. Windows 10 is installed of an 8th gen Z370 PC and there are no problems. The OS has even been activated through no input from us. We tried a couple methods, but they didn't work. Somehow it came as a surprise that the OS is activated. Woohoo!

So, please, don't call me a fanboy just because I have changed my mind about the actual OS that Windows 10 is supposed to be. Windows 10 has the potential to be even better than Win 7 if micro$oft would just cut the crap. And NO, they haven't paid me ( although a paycheck from them would come in handy. ;) )

Siran
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Message 1926557 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 15:11:16 UTC - in response to Message 1926554.  

Well, if it came 'out of the gate' ready to rock and not needing extensive castration to make it the OS you say it can be, I might consider trying it.
But as it stands now, I am not about to try an OS that needs that much work to function the way that it should in the first place.
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Message 1926591 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 19:17:34 UTC - in response to Message 1926557.  

The two main things I object with Win 10 is the spying/telemetry gathering and the forced updates on M$ schedule and not your own. That is with the Home Premium version which doesn't have the Group Policy Editor that the Professional and Business versions have.

Nothing can be done about the forced updates with Home. But the telemetry/spying can easily be taken care of with a couple of clicks of the mouse with either the Spybot Anti-Beacon app mentioned or the one I use O&O Shut Up.

So I didn't have to mess with the installation of Win10 all that much after all. The only thing you have to do is run the anti-spy apps after each major update since M$ has a tendency to turn things back on that you have turned off previously. Again, a couple of clicks takes care of the issue and I don't think about again until the next update.
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Message 1926604 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 20:39:34 UTC - in response to Message 1926554.  

So, please, don't call me a fanboy
I didn't. I called you a fanboi, with a link to the site explaining what that was, just in case you mistakenly thought I couldn't spell fanboy.
A fanboi is someone who is unusually attracted or devoted to a particular technology or tech company.

You went from flat out against to this is better than sex in back to back posts in this thread. No warning in between that you were neighing in the other direction, no blog that you were going to go for it. I can't wait for you to find a Linux distribution that does what you want from it, as that'll make interesting reading.
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Message 1926606 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 20:51:28 UTC

I've run Windows 10 Home Edition since it came out and yet to have any issues regarding having to reinstall drivers..
My opinion is that it runs fast and smooth, I had many issues with other OS but I did like Windows 7 tho it had 5x more updates required..
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Message 1926624 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 22:43:22 UTC

And sometimes meaningful reading as well.
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Message 1926630 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 23:56:56 UTC

I know that, just as what happened with XP, the last (nearly) universally loved Microsoft OS (Vista? Oh well lol), the ax is going to fall on Win 7 as well, and I (like many, many others) am not looking forward to this event. I remember reading about a version that really piqued my interest a year or so ago, it was called Windows 10 LTSB, and I am starting to look into finding a way to acquire it. I believe that to do it you need to go on an annual (volume?) licen$e agreement thing, which I despise, and was the reason I went with Solidworks instead of AutoCAD products for my shop. I'll probably wait a year or so till D-Day for 7 is much closer though, and let them keep ironing out the bugs in it more, but I figure it's never too early to start understanding the finer details of it, so I will be ready to go when the time comes.

It really sucks to have to pay an annual fee for the privilege of keeping my privacy, as well as avoiding having random updates rammed up down my systems.... throat at Microsofts pleasure, but they have pretty much sewn up the market for the OS required of the software that I am using now in my business, so I'm going to be forced to roll over one way or another. I guess it'll just have to be another cost of doing business, but at least I wont be in group of those whose howls I hear when MS forces out another 'update' that breaks a bunch of stuff again...

But that new interface... Ugh.

A little info I came across, if anyone is interested:

Windows 10 Without the Cruft: Windows 10 LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch), Explained

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Message 1926639 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 0:44:27 UTC - in response to Message 1926630.  

Well for $84 a year for the LTSB license, it would be worth it. Of course the tollbridge is you have to be a Enterprise customer in a organization to get it in the first place. I don't think that a single user of a sole proprietor business qualifies as a "organization" according to M$' definition.

Al, have you asked M$ whether you qualify for Enterprise classification?
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Message 1926645 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 3:05:55 UTC - in response to Message 1926639.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2018, 3:37:00 UTC

Keith, nope, just started thinking about this a bit more seriously late last week with my RAID issues, knowing that things like that will be raising their heads more frequently as time goes on. I'll have to do a little more research, and probably contact a platinum MS reseller in my area, in another life I used to be on the periphery of those interactions, but now as it's all me, I'll have to deal with it directly. I didn't realize that they had limitations on it, I thought you basically signed the contract, paid your $'s, and you got your licenses? Or is it much more complicated than that?

*edit* found a fairly recent -early 2018- article explaining some of the in's and outs of LTSB currently:

FAQ: Windows 10 LTSB explained

Didn't see anything specific in it about who/what qualifies in MS's eyes to be afforded the ability to get this version unfortunately...

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Message 1926650 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 3:47:44 UTC - in response to Message 1926639.  

Well for $84 a year for the LTSB license, it would be worth it. Of course the tollbridge is you have to be a Enterprise customer in a organization to get it in the first place. I don't think that a single user of a sole proprietor business qualifies as a "organization" according to M$' definition.

Al, have you asked M$ whether you qualify for Enterprise classification?

Enterprise = 250+ licenses
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Message 1926655 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 4:14:46 UTC - in response to Message 1926650.  

Well for $84 a year for the LTSB license, it would be worth it. Of course the tollbridge is you have to be a Enterprise customer in a organization to get it in the first place. I don't think that a single user of a sole proprietor business qualifies as a "organization" according to M$' definition.

Al, have you asked M$ whether you qualify for Enterprise classification?

Enterprise = 250+ licenses

Sell onto close friends to make up the numbers. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1926737 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 14:31:35 UTC - in response to Message 1926604.  

So, please, don't call me a fanboy
I didn't. I called you a fanboi, with a link to the site explaining what that was, just in case you mistakenly thought I couldn't spell fanboy.
A fanboi is someone who is unusually attracted or devoted to a particular technology or tech company.

You went from flat out against to this is better than sex in back to back posts in this thread. No warning in between that you were neighing in the other direction, no blog that you were going to go for it. I can't wait for you to find a Linux distribution that does what you want from it, as that'll make interesting reading.

Fanboy|fanboi, potato|potahto, tomato|tomahto... It's all the same to me. I did read the definition of fanboi. I don't care what it says, it's all fanboy to me.

These are just a few of Jerry's videos I watched. He worked for Microsoft for 15 years. Jerry can be a little out there sometimes, but believe me the guy knows. He just does things for his audience.:
1st video Pay close attention to what he says about 8:56 into the video.
2nd video Pay attention to what he talks about starting about 5:38 into the video.
3rd video Just another of Jerry's videos I watched.

This is Carey Holzman. He does live YouTube builds of PCs for his customers. He's had his business for over 25 years. Carey has many, many more videos and it would take way too long for me to find exact videos. These are just about Windows 10.:
1st video Unless a customer explicitly asks for Windows 7, Carey installs Windows 10 on all current computers.
2nd video Windows 10 Creators Update.

This in no way makes me a Microsoft fanboy or fanboi. Watching these 2 YouTuber's video have change my attitude about the OPERATING SYSTEM Windows 10. I still do not like Micro$oft's tactics or what they do WITH the OS by adding the junk files ( PUPs ) and all the spying.

Siran
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Message 1927961 - Posted: 4 Apr 2018, 14:26:09 UTC

I had a total meltdown on my 7700K on Monday morning and the Win10 Pro install stick would not work, it kept aborting with a missing or corrupted file msg. I have an old Win 10 Pro system builder disk that was never used and even it didn't work. After several frustrating hours I was able to get an old Win 7 to install by disconnecting all drives SSD (2) and the HDD, leaving just the system drive and the Blu-ray drive connected. Everything went well until I after the SP 1 update. I kept getting this popup stating that the OS was outdated and would not work on your machine. After I reconnected the drives, and had a more or less stable system and activating Win 7, the Win 10 install stick still aborted. I eventually got the system builder Win 10 disk to work without supplying a key, late Monday night. I finally got the system back up to a more or less stable yesterday morning, with the event viewer is showing a lot of major errors that I don't understand and don't know how to fix. But right now I'm standing on this side of the grass, vertical, and sucking air; and the machine is up and running and crunching. God, or whoever it is who is the main spokesperson up there, I would give my left one to have Win 7 back.


I don't buy computers, I build them!!
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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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