Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 142 · 143 · 144 · 145 · 146 · 147 · 148 . . . 170 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 4786
Credit: 30,707,208
RAC: 200
United States
Message 1896350 - Posted: 20 Oct 2017, 15:54:44 UTC

Why is Windows IT never easy? (Or intuitive/obvious?)

Because then there would be no need for MCSEs............same reason for the Legal System and Lawyers.

IMHO

<(0)>

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 1896350 · Report as offensive
Profile Ageless
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jun 99
Posts: 14819
Credit: 4,024,145
RAC: 996
Netherlands
Message 1897536 - Posted: 26 Oct 2017, 8:44:23 UTC

Microsoft May Be Planning Price Increases for Windows 10

Microsoft has thus far been extremely flexible with Windows 10 pricing. It offered the update for free to users for months, and even after that there were ways to get the upgrade at no cost if you knew where to go. When the OS is still struggling to gain market share, increasing the price seems like a bad idea, but that’s just what Microsoft seems to be planning. A new edition of Windows 10 called Windows 10 Pro for Workstations is coming soon, and the version realignment will likely increase costs for system builders, ZDNet reports. Those costs will probably end up being passed down to consumers, too.

Windows 10 Pro for Workstations will include the company’s enterprise-oriented tools and features to support server-grade hardware. It will be positioned above Pro in the Windows 10 family, so it’ll have all the Pro features plus a whole lot more.

Based on reports from customers who have been contacted by system builders, Microsoft is planning to change the way it licenses Windows 10 going forward. Instead of letting the OEM decide which SKUs get which version, it will be based on the processor inside the machine. For a system with four or fewer cores, a Windows license is expected to increase $70. For a machine with more than four cores, Microsoft is looking at a $230 price increase for the manufacturer. The OEM could choose to swallow that cost, but with margins as low as they are on PCs, that seems unlikely.

Anyone looking to pick up a system running Intel Xeon or AMD Opteron processors in the coming months will probably also be stuck with the more expensive Windows 10 Pro for Workstations. Microsoft reportedly plans to require that version on such systems. A future update will also add support for Intel Core i9 and Ryzen Threadripper chips, possibly in March or April next year. That would be an optional upgrade for users, but OEMs would still be subject to higher licensing costs because of all the cores in those parts.

Jord

According to Giorgo of the Ancient Astronaut Theorists I do not help with tech questions via private message. He's right: please use the forums for that.
ID: 1897536 · Report as offensive
Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 May 99
Posts: 6868
Credit: 17,732,904
RAC: 63,486
United States
Message 1897543 - Posted: 26 Oct 2017, 10:47:43 UTC - in response to Message 1897536.  

Microsoft May Be Planning Price Increases for Windows 10

Microsoft has thus far been extremely flexible with Windows 10 pricing. It offered the update for free to users for months, and even after that there were ways to get the upgrade at no cost if you knew where to go. When the OS is still struggling to gain market share, increasing the price seems like a bad idea, but that’s just what Microsoft seems to be planning. A new edition of Windows 10 called Windows 10 Pro for Workstations is coming soon, and the version realignment will likely increase costs for system builders, ZDNet reports. Those costs will probably end up being passed down to consumers, too.

Windows 10 Pro for Workstations will include the company’s enterprise-oriented tools and features to support server-grade hardware. It will be positioned above Pro in the Windows 10 family, so it’ll have all the Pro features plus a whole lot more.

Based on reports from customers who have been contacted by system builders, Microsoft is planning to change the way it licenses Windows 10 going forward. Instead of letting the OEM decide which SKUs get which version, it will be based on the processor inside the machine. For a system with four or fewer cores, a Windows license is expected to increase $70. For a machine with more than four cores, Microsoft is looking at a $230 price increase for the manufacturer. The OEM could choose to swallow that cost, but with margins as low as they are on PCs, that seems unlikely.

Anyone looking to pick up a system running Intel Xeon or AMD Opteron processors in the coming months will probably also be stuck with the more expensive Windows 10 Pro for Workstations. Microsoft reportedly plans to require that version on such systems. A future update will also add support for Intel Core i9 and Ryzen Threadripper chips, possibly in March or April next year. That would be an optional upgrade for users, but OEMs would still be subject to higher licensing costs because of all the cores in those parts.

They're obsoleting PCs based on what CPU is running in them, they're not allowing upgrades by what CPU is running in them, they're preventing older OSs such as Win7 from running on a PC based on the CPU in them and now they want to charge for a license based on the CPU in a new PC? Is there no stopping those greedy bastards? -_-

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

Windows 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker

Microsoft wants us to "Imagine life without walls"...
I say, "If there are no walls, who needs Windows?"
ID: 1897543 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25262
Credit: 47,889,833
RAC: 26,325
United States
Message 1897672 - Posted: 26 Oct 2017, 23:23:00 UTC - in response to Message 1897543.  

They're obsoleting PCs based on what CPU is running in them, they're not allowing upgrades by what CPU is running in them, they're preventing older OSs such as Win7 from running on a PC based on the CPU in them and now they want to charge for a license based on the CPU in a new PC? Is there no stopping those greedy bastards? -_-

Siran
Well since they haven't yet decided to only allow it to run on M$ made boxes, they still have some ways to go yet.
ID: 1897672 · Report as offensive
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 4786
Credit: 30,707,208
RAC: 200
United States
Message 1897677 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 0:00:28 UTC

I've been running the Lunatics 0.45 beta SoG for a couple of weeks and am still having mouse and keyboard lag and especially streaming or playback video problems(framing). Can anybody suggest an alteration that will reduce or eliminate the problem?

Here's the command line:

-tt 1500 -hp -period_iterations_num 8 -high_perf -high_prec_timer -sbs 1024 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64 -use_sleep


My only alternative now is shutting boinc down when using other programs, and then I forget to restart it.

Thanks.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 1897677 · Report as offensive
Profile Keith Myers Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 01
Posts: 8772
Credit: 772,975,879
RAC: 1,664,244
United States
Message 1897679 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 0:17:27 UTC - in response to Message 1897677.  

Reduce your -tt to 500 and up your -period_iterations to 10 or 15.
Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours
ID: 1897679 · Report as offensive
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 4786
Credit: 30,707,208
RAC: 200
United States
Message 1897682 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 0:31:42 UTC

Thanks Keith, I'm making those changes now.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 1897682 · Report as offensive
Profile Keith Myers Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 01
Posts: 8772
Credit: 772,975,879
RAC: 1,664,244
United States
Message 1897686 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 1:07:18 UTC

Change, test, and iterate until the system keyboard and mouse lags reduce to tolerable.
Seti@Home classic workunits:20,676 CPU time:74,226 hours
ID: 1897686 · Report as offensive
Profile Jimbocous Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 1 Apr 13
Posts: 1331
Credit: 147,835,332
RAC: 188,418
United States
Message 1897689 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 1:20:39 UTC - in response to Message 1897677.  
Last modified: 27 Oct 2017, 1:30:07 UTC

My only alternative now is shutting boinc down when using other programs, and then I forget to restart it.

Hey, DG,
If it's just certain apps, you can make BOINC suspend and restart automatically, as well.
From BOINCManager, Options>Exclusive Applications...> Suspend>All/GPU only>specific apps to suspend on
I don't generally need that, but do add CD/DVD burning software just in case it's an issue.

FWIW, my current mb_cmdline_win_x86_SSE3_OpenCL_NV_SoG.txt is:

-tt 1500 -period_iterations_num 1 -high_perf -sbs 1024 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64

Machine is Win10Pro, Q9650 C2Q 3.0ghz w/8gig ram and two 750TIs.
If I experience lags, (rare), I generally exit then restart Firefox and Solitaire, and if necessary do a reboot. Only place I see lags is on Solitaire, and I tend to think that's more an issue with those (not supported on win7+) apps.
ID: 1897689 · Report as offensive
Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 May 99
Posts: 6868
Credit: 17,732,904
RAC: 63,486
United States
Message 1897724 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 10:43:53 UTC - in response to Message 1897672.  

They're obsoleting PCs based on what CPU is running in them, they're not allowing upgrades by what CPU is running in them, they're preventing older OSs such as Win7 from running on a PC based on the CPU in them and now they want to charge for a license based on the CPU in a new PC? Is there no stopping those greedy bastards? -_-

Siran
Well since they haven't yet decided to only allow it to run on M$ made boxes, they still have some ways to go yet.

Hi Gary,

Wouldn't they be shootin' themselves in the foot if they went that route? That, to me, would look like a MAJOR drop in Windoze PCs. ( unless they plan to buy up ALL the PC and parts manufacturers ;) )

But yeah, you're right, they do have a long ways to go... ;)

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

Windows 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker

Microsoft wants us to "Imagine life without walls"...
I say, "If there are no walls, who needs Windows?"
ID: 1897724 · Report as offensive
Profile Ageless
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jun 99
Posts: 14819
Credit: 4,024,145
RAC: 996
Netherlands
Message 1897735 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 13:37:10 UTC - in response to Message 1897724.  

Microsoft doesn't run OEM Windows on their own hardware, that would be stupid. The message I posted about with the price rises was about OEM Windows 10 Pro and OEM Windows 10 Workstation, so think HP, Toshiba, Dell, etc.
Jord

According to Giorgo of the Ancient Astronaut Theorists I do not help with tech questions via private message. He's right: please use the forums for that.
ID: 1897735 · Report as offensive
Profile Cliff Harding
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Aug 99
Posts: 1414
Credit: 100,925,147
RAC: 41,513
United States
Message 1897737 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 14:01:38 UTC - in response to Message 1897677.  
Last modified: 27 Oct 2017, 14:03:50 UTC

I've been running the Lunatics 0.45 beta SoG for a couple of weeks and am still having mouse and keyboard lag and especially streaming or playback video problems(framing). Can anybody suggest an alteration that will reduce or eliminate the problem?

Here's the command line:

-tt 1500 -hp -period_iterations_num 8 -high_perf -high_prec_timer -sbs 1024 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64 -use_sleep


My only alternative now is shutting boinc down when using other programs, and then I forget to restart it.

Thanks.



Reading some of the posts it seems that some are still using their iGPUs for processing tasks. Your machines have an iGPU, why don't you do what I have done. First, go into your bios and set the iGPU as the primary for your monitor(s), then set <ignore_intel_dev>0</ignore_intel_dev> in your cc_config.xml and re-start BOINC or re-read the cc_config.xml. Even though you may lose a few tasks that may have been assigned to the iGPU, all of your lagging problems go away. Depending on what your "use at most % of you CPUs" is, you may be able to increase it. Unless you're playing GPU intensive games or video editing, the iGPU will function quite nicely for just about everything else, freeing up more resources to BOINC.

[edit] BTW, are you using 1 CPU or .5 CPU per GPU tasks?]


I don't buy computers, I build them!!
ID: 1897737 · Report as offensive
Profile tullio
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 04
Posts: 7564
Credit: 2,546,334
RAC: 1,271
Italy
Message 1897738 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 14:02:02 UTC
Last modified: 27 Oct 2017, 14:02:49 UTC

I am running Windows 10 Home Edition on a HP PC I bough in 2014 with Windows 8, then 8.1, then Windows 10. I never paid Microsoft for their updates which come monthly and I have no way to refuse them. Contrarily to what has been written they don't change my nVidia drivers for a GTX 1050 Ti GPU board, where I get updates from Geforce.
Tullio
ID: 1897738 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25262
Credit: 47,889,833
RAC: 26,325
United States
Message 1897750 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 16:34:24 UTC - in response to Message 1897724.  

They're obsoleting PCs based on what CPU is running in them, they're not allowing upgrades by what CPU is running in them, they're preventing older OSs such as Win7 from running on a PC based on the CPU in them and now they want to charge for a license based on the CPU in a new PC? Is there no stopping those greedy bastards? -_-

Siran
Well since they haven't yet decided to only allow it to run on M$ made boxes, they still have some ways to go yet.

Hi Gary,

Wouldn't they be shootin' themselves in the foot if they went that route? That, to me, would look like a MAJOR drop in Windoze PCs. ( unless they plan to buy up ALL the PC and parts manufacturers ;) )

But yeah, you're right, they do have a long ways to go... ;)

Siran

M$ doesn't have to sell OEM windoze, but how many Linux machines can the OEM's sell? Will they run Office SAS?
ID: 1897750 · Report as offensive
Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 23 May 99
Posts: 6868
Credit: 17,732,904
RAC: 63,486
United States
Message 1897780 - Posted: 27 Oct 2017, 21:36:30 UTC - in response to Message 1897750.  

They're obsoleting PCs based on what CPU is running in them, they're not allowing upgrades by what CPU is running in them, they're preventing older OSs such as Win7 from running on a PC based on the CPU in them and now they want to charge for a license based on the CPU in a new PC? Is there no stopping those greedy bastards? -_-

Siran
Well since they haven't yet decided to only allow it to run on M$ made boxes, they still have some ways to go yet.

Hi Gary,

Wouldn't they be shootin' themselves in the foot if they went that route? That, to me, would look like a MAJOR drop in Windoze PCs. ( unless they plan to buy up ALL the PC and parts manufacturers ;) )

But yeah, you're right, they do have a long ways to go... ;)

Siran

M$ doesn't have to sell OEM windoze, but how many Linux machines can the OEM's sell? Will they run Office SAS?


Linux is hard to get any Windoze software running on it with Wine. I tried and it is a pain in the A$$ for those of us not raised on Linux. I have yet to succeed.
I migrated from Microware OS-9 which was a Unix derivative, all command line, no GUI. Well, there was a GUI, I just never got into it. It was like the first Windows that ran on MS-DOG.

Microsoft may not have to sell OEM, but as I see it, if they drop OEM Windows, that would be a shot in the foot. Unless, like I said, they plan on buying up all the PC and parts manufacturers.

Siran
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
USS Vre'kasht NCC-33187

Windows 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker

Microsoft wants us to "Imagine life without walls"...
I say, "If there are no walls, who needs Windows?"
ID: 1897780 · Report as offensive
kittyman Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 50375
Credit: 980,970,408
RAC: 47,882
United States
Message 1899542 - Posted: 6 Nov 2017, 15:38:28 UTC

During the build and rework of my new computer, some things got a bit tangled in my Win 7, which I transferred from my old computer on the SSD with no changes.
After I got it running, I did an upgrade install from my Windows 7 Pro x64 SP1 cd.
This of course, wiped out all the updates since the disc was created.
Proceeded to let Windows Update do it's thing. Which it did, installing some 190 or so updates.

Pleased to report that all updates installed correctly, and more importantly.............
Not one of them contained any badgering about switching to 10!

Meow!
"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

ID: 1899542 · Report as offensive
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 11329
Credit: 164,237,046
RAC: 102,466
Australia
Message 1899596 - Posted: 6 Nov 2017, 20:26:30 UTC - in response to Message 1899542.  
Last modified: 6 Nov 2017, 20:28:03 UTC

During the build and rework of my new computer, some things got a bit tangled in my Win 7, which I transferred from my old computer on the SSD with no changes.

I'm surprised you didn't install the AVX application for the CPU; 30% or better output than the SSSE applications. Although it does push your cooling system significantly. I had to replace the stock cooler with an aftermarket one to keep the temperatures down when I moved to the AVX application.

EDIT- and a lower value for the period_iterations_num to get more from the GPUs.
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1899596 · Report as offensive
kittyman Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 50375
Credit: 980,970,408
RAC: 47,882
United States
Message 1899682 - Posted: 7 Nov 2017, 7:35:29 UTC - in response to Message 1899596.  
Last modified: 7 Nov 2017, 7:40:56 UTC

During the build and rework of my new computer, some things got a bit tangled in my Win 7, which I transferred from my old computer on the SSD with no changes.

I'm surprised you didn't install the AVX application for the CPU; 30% or better output than the SSSE applications. Although it does push your cooling system significantly. I had to replace the stock cooler with an aftermarket one to keep the temperatures down when I moved to the AVX application.

EDIT- and a lower value for the period_iterations_num to get more from the GPUs.

I did not change anything in my Boinc/Seti installation. It was transferred over on the SSD from the old computer.
I can rerun the Lunatics installer and look for that AVX app.
And if you have better suggestions for the SOG command line for the 1080ti's, by all means please let me know.

Meow!
"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

ID: 1899682 · Report as offensive
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 11329
Credit: 164,237,046
RAC: 102,466
Australia
Message 1899687 - Posted: 7 Nov 2017, 8:03:01 UTC - in response to Message 1899682.  
Last modified: 7 Nov 2017, 8:03:47 UTC

And if you have better suggestions for the SOG command line for the 1080ti's, by all means please let me know.

I run 1 WU at a time on my GTX 1070s, and this is the command line I use
-tt 1500 -hp -period_iterations_num 1 -high_perf -sbs 1024 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64
The only difference appears to be i'm using the High Performance option (-high_perf), and a lower -period_iterations_num value. The lower that value, the higher the performance- but it does result in some screen/keyboard lag. If that's a dedicated cruncher, then it won't be an issue.

My present crunch time for blc_24s is around 7min 30, your present crunch times are just under 7min. I'd suspect with the lower -period_iterations_num and -high_perf option your times should get down to well under 6min.
Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1899687 · Report as offensive
kittyman Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 50375
Credit: 980,970,408
RAC: 47,882
United States
Message 1899688 - Posted: 7 Nov 2017, 8:06:30 UTC - in response to Message 1899687.  

And if you have better suggestions for the SOG command line for the 1080ti's, by all means please let me know.

I run 1 WU at a time on my GTX 1070s, and this is the command line I use
-tt 1500 -hp -period_iterations_num 1 -high_perf -sbs 1024 -spike_fft_thresh 4096 -tune 1 64 1 4 -oclfft_tune_gr 256 -oclfft_tune_lr 16 -oclfft_tune_wg 256 -oclfft_tune_ls 512 -oclfft_tune_bn 64 -oclfft_tune_cw 64
The only difference appears to be i'm using the High Performance option (-high_perf), and a lower -period_iterations_num value. The lower that value, the higher the performance- but it does result in some screen/keyboard lag. If that's a dedicated cruncher, then it won't be an issue.

My present crunch time for blc_24s is around 7min 30, your present crunch times are just under 7min. I'd suspect with the lower -period_iterations_num and -high_perf option your times should get down to well under 6min.

I am currently running 2 at a time on the GPUs..............
"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

ID: 1899688 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 142 · 143 · 144 · 145 · 146 · 147 · 148 . . . 170 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
©2019 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.