Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Message 1807236 - Posted: 5 Aug 2016, 6:25:14 UTC - in response to Message 1807231.  

MAC OS!!!


yeah, but not anybody have the goods to install a hackintosh...

Any Intel based PC from 2008 onward can be turned into a Hackintosh. :-) Plus, there's real MACs too... ;-)


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Message 1807258 - Posted: 5 Aug 2016, 11:17:57 UTC - in response to Message 1807222.  

The Pirate M$ Bay, the No 1 torrent site for updates :-)
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Message 1808679 - Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 8:32:36 UTC

Greetings,

So, now that the year of hell is over, do we still need to keep watch over Window$ updates if we're not running Window$ 10? Will Micro$oft have all those nagware updates pulled? Or, will they update them to nag us to upgrade by buying 10 from their "App Store" or wherever?

Just asking since I still have updates turned off and Win7 is supposed to be alive 'til what, 2020 if I remember correctly. I would like to keep my Win7 up-to-date on the updates and whatnot.

Peace! :)
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Message 1808722 - Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 14:28:52 UTC

A really good question, but i also don't know the answer! :?

I suspect, the enhanced sniffing technologies will still be pushed to 7 and 8.1 machines though...
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1808725 - Posted: 12 Aug 2016, 15:21:52 UTC - in response to Message 1808679.  
Last modified: 12 Aug 2016, 15:29:04 UTC

So, now that the year of hell is over, do we still need to keep watch over Window$ updates if we're not running Window$ 10? Will Micro$oft have all those nagware updates pulled?

See fifth sentence here.

On another note:
Microsoft to support Skylake on Windows 7 and 8.1 after all.
    "Many users saw this as another attempt by Microsoft to get customers to upgrade to Windows 10 or buy devices that ship with Windows 10 installed as the operating system."

Chicken Little advertising, then a complete 180.

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Message 1808892 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 15:18:21 UTC - in response to Message 1808722.  

A really good question, but i also don't know the answer! :?

I suspect, the enhanced sniffing technologies will still be pushed to 7 and 8.1 machines though...

Thanks Uli. :)

I guess I will keep my PC as-is for the time being until I figure out what I'm going to do about updates.

Peace! :)
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Message 1808894 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 15:21:13 UTC - in response to Message 1808725.  

So, now that the year of hell is over, do we still need to keep watch over Window$ updates if we're not running Window$ 10? Will Micro$oft have all those nagware updates pulled?

See fifth sentence here.

On another note:
Microsoft to support Skylake on Windows 7 and 8.1 after all.
    "Many users saw this as another attempt by Microsoft to get customers to upgrade to Windows 10 or buy devices that ship with Windows 10 installed as the operating system."

Chicken Little advertising, then a complete 180.


I guess Micro$oft decided not to do with Skylake like they tried to do with UEFI.

Thanks for the info Dave. :)

Peace! :)
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Message 1808895 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 15:28:47 UTC
Last modified: 13 Aug 2016, 15:29:59 UTC

Greetings,

Another question that just came to me:

A while back I predicted that Micro$oft would disable the red-X so people had no choice but to install Window$ 10. It turned out that I was almost dead on; they changed the red-X to an "OK" button.

What's to stop Micro$oft from changing the Updates program for Win7 and 8.1 so that you no long have a choice what updates to install and you cannot turn updates off just like with Window$ 10?

Any comment from programmers out here? Can and will they do it?

Peace! :)

[edit] As you can tell, I do not trust Micro$oft. ;) [/edit]
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Message 1808942 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016, 19:16:16 UTC - in response to Message 1808895.  

What's to stop Micro$oft from changing the Updates program for Win7 and 8.1 so that you no long have a choice what updates to install and you cannot turn updates off just like with Window$ 10?

Theoretically, they certainly could do that. It would require that you get a new version of the Update Client though, I would imagine, anyway.

Personally, I haven't updated in a while, because the June rollup contained a new update client. The July rollup replaced the June one, and added one or two more fixes. So the last update I've done was in May.

I just checked WSUS and I see a whole pile of individual updates came out this week, so to me, it appears as though those last two months leading up to the "end" of the free upgrade period were deliberately done with rollups so that if you wanted the security fixes, you would be required to also get the new Update Client. I have absolutely no idea what the risks of that new Update Client are, but I'm still erring on the side of caution that all Update Clients after June 2015 (they're all listed in list to avoid) are not to be trusted.

There IS a catch-22 that some people may want/need, which is the October 2015 one that fixes the memory leak and consuming a CPU core for hours during checking for updates. That does get fixed in that version, but I'm still not trusting it since there were reports around that time that the new Update Clients were automatically downloading everything in the avoid list--in the background, without asking for permission, nor telling you that it had done so.

Call that FUD if you want, but I'm keeping my system clean, even if it takes two hours to check for updates and uses nearly 3gb of RAM.
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Message 1809315 - Posted: 15 Aug 2016, 13:32:39 UTC - in response to Message 1808942.  

What's to stop Micro$oft from changing the Updates program for Win7 and 8.1 so that you no long have a choice what updates to install and you cannot turn updates off just like with Window$ 10?

Theoretically, they certainly could do that. It would require that you get a new version of the Update Client though, I would imagine, anyway.

Personally, I haven't updated in a while, because the June rollup contained a new update client. The July rollup replaced the June one, and added one or two more fixes. So the last update I've done was in May.

I just checked WSUS and I see a whole pile of individual updates came out this week, so to me, it appears as though those last two months leading up to the "end" of the free upgrade period were deliberately done with rollups so that if you wanted the security fixes, you would be required to also get the new Update Client. I have absolutely no idea what the risks of that new Update Client are, but I'm still erring on the side of caution that all Update Clients after June 2015 (they're all listed in list to avoid) are not to be trusted.

There IS a catch-22 that some people may want/need, which is the October 2015 one that fixes the memory leak and consuming a CPU core for hours during checking for updates. That does get fixed in that version, but I'm still not trusting it since there were reports around that time that the new Update Clients were automatically downloading everything in the avoid list--in the background, without asking for permission, nor telling you that it had done so.

Call that FUD if you want, but I'm keeping my system clean, even if it takes two hours to check for updates and uses nearly 3gb of RAM.

Hi Cosmic,

I would surmise, then, that those of us not running 10 are pretty much stuck without updates unless we want the headaches that come with the MS update client.

Thanks! :)

Peace! :)
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Message 1809440 - Posted: 15 Aug 2016, 19:00:26 UTC - in response to Message 1809315.  


Hi Cosmic,

I would surmise, then, that those of us not running 10 are pretty much stuck without updates unless we want the headaches that come with the MS update client.

Thanks! :)

Peace! :)

Well, that's a risk that you would have to decide if you're willing to take or not. I don't know if the newer/newest Update Clients do the shady background things that some of the older ones were shown to do last year, but I'd rather be cautious and not take that risk by not installing any of them. It is unfortunate that you have to avoid the whole update rollup that has good security fixes for other things, all because you don't want the new update client.

Rollups defeat the purpose of granular control for enterprise environments, because now they can't pick and choose updates that break things or cause new problems. For instance, if one of those security fixes in a rollup causes problems, but everything else is fine, you would have to avoid the entire rollup, leaving yourself exposed to the vulnerabilities that were fixed in other things, all because one patch within the rollup broke something.

I just find it a bit interesting that in the last two months of trying to con people into moving to 10, they went with the rollup route, and as soon as August came around.. back to individual updates again. I find that to be quite suspect, like it was an underhanded tactic.



For at least June and July, if you didn't want the new Update Client, then you had to avoid updates entirely. But August seems to have gone back to individual updates. We'll see if that continues. You'll have to investigate every update from now on, of course, but it looks like at least some updates can be trusted--for now. I didn't find any for the August batch that were suspicious, and when I saw that it was all individual updates, I did look to see if any of those KB numbers matched the ones that were included in the June or July rollups, and they were not.

There may come a time when you just have to turn updates off altogether and get yourself a good A/V, use an ad blocker (and/or NoScript) and be cautious and selective about the sites you go to for added assurance. If you do it right, you can do a vanilla 7 install and never get a single update and still do 99.9% of your everyday tasks without being vulnerable to exploits. Being behind a hardware firewall (basically all home routers) is a major step in that.
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Message 1809511 - Posted: 16 Aug 2016, 3:09:23 UTC - in response to Message 1809440.  

But August seems to have gone back to individual updates. We'll see if that continues.

You'll see in October.

This is how MS treats its customers.  The first line is spoken by Satya.
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Message 1809536 - Posted: 16 Aug 2016, 4:23:54 UTC - in response to Message 1809511.  

This is how MS treats its customers.  The first line is spoken by Satya.

Yeah, basically ...
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Message 1809686 - Posted: 16 Aug 2016, 21:12:15 UTC

There might still be some hope for me after all..

Microsoft will also create security-only updates that include all the security fixes released each month, without any reliability or feature changes. These updates won't be cumulative. They will only be offered via WSUS and SCCM; WU users won't see them.

I'll see how that actually works when the time comes.
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Message 1809714 - Posted: 16 Aug 2016, 21:50:11 UTC - in response to Message 1809686.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2016, 21:52:11 UTC

There might still be some hope for me after all..

Microsoft will also create security-only updates that include all the security fixes released each month, without any reliability or feature changes. These updates won't be cumulative. They will only be offered via WSUS and SCCM; WU users won't see them.

I'll see how that actually works when the time comes.

Well, well, well... Yes, I've just noticed the news for the strange moves...

This puts a total 'spanner in the works' for those wishing to vet and control what updates go onto their Windows systems... See also:


Farewell Patch Tuesday fragmentation: from October, MS will roll just one monthly patch

Downside: that zero-day is still [a] zero-month [long]

... Microsoft is implementing the monthly patch rollup it promised in May.

At the same time, however, Redmond has decided to kill off individual security patches, something that might not please sysadmins. Instead, a monthly security-only rollup will collect “all of the security patches for that month into a single update”...



So... I read that as yet another step towards "Microsoft systems" = "No User Choice".


IT is what you allow it to be...
Martin


[Edit]
PS: I hope to be getting rid of my one Windows system and the multiple Windows Servers support before Christmas this year. Yeah!!! :-)
[/Edit]
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Message 1809787 - Posted: 17 Aug 2016, 1:41:10 UTC - in response to Message 1809714.  

What do you expect.....look who's running MS now.
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Message 1809788 - Posted: 17 Aug 2016, 1:47:04 UTC - in response to Message 1809787.  

Fall in line, "resistance is futile".
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Message 1809821 - Posted: 17 Aug 2016, 5:33:14 UTC - in response to Message 1809714.  

Micro$haft has F----- us over!
Say hello to a (more than likely) FORCED WINDOW$ 10 if you have Win 7 or 8.1.
Add to that a GREATER CHANCE that the "monthly roll-up" (patch) will BREAK and BSOD your COMPUTER if something in the patch is buggy.

From COMPUTERWORLD:
Microsoft to end decades-old pick-a-patch practice in Windows 7

As of October, Microsoft's switching older editions to the update model pioneered by Windows 10, and slammed by some customers


Customers who receive patches and bug fixes via Windows Update -- the consumer-grade maintenance service -- will automatically get the security/non-security cumulative update; they will not have a choice. However, businesses deploying updates using Windows Server Update Services (WSUS), System Center Configuration Manager (SCCM) or the Update Catalog download site, may pick between the security-only or the combined security/non-security updates.

"The security-only update will allow enterprises to download as small of an update as possible while still maintaining more secure devices," Mercer said.

Mercer touted the change to the Windows 10 model as a boon to customers, ticking off benefits ranging from fewer updates to reduced scanning time. "The outcome increases Windows operating system reliability by eliminating update fragmentation and providing more proactive patches for known issues," Mercer contended.

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Message 1809825 - Posted: 17 Aug 2016, 6:11:52 UTC

Here we go again ...
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Message 1809912 - Posted: 17 Aug 2016, 14:26:44 UTC - in response to Message 1809825.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2016, 14:27:46 UTC

[IMG ]http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/Jimbocous/the-true-origin-of-the-tin-foil-hat.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Here we go again ...

I don't know why anyone would wear a foil hat like that to try to block signals in/out of their head. Unless it is properly grounded it would only serve as antenna.

With the free upgrade period offer over I've been considering setting up another Window 7 VM to see what updates they push out to it. Last time I did that I came back to the VM running Windows 10 with no human intervention.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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