Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile JaundicedEye
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Message 1791112 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 3:13:27 UTC - in response to Message 1791110.  

I hate to say it but ...
The more F/U'd a system is, the less likely someone is paying attention
They are the ones forced into 10 and because it started F/U'd
you can rest assured it only gets worse under 10!
Hence the nightmare stories.


These stories are not always the case of having a F/U'd system. I truly believed it would have been a good thing upgrading to what has become the M$ ransomware (Win10) and was eager to install it, when it first became widely available. My nightmare story happened during the upgrade that so completely corrupted my system during the install and I couldn't back out it because of said corruption, and I had to do a complete clean install of Win7 from my install CD, it took 2 days to completely re-install everything.

Remember back to when this thread was started, not everyone had a F/U'd system to begin with. The greater majority of us that attempted to upgrade and had to revert back to Win7 had perfectly good and stable machines.

Also 'someone paying attention' is kind of unfair in that most PC users (80% using the 80/20 rule) are as ignorant as to the underpinnings of what makes it all work as to what makes an airliner fly. We who haunt these threads are the exception not the rule, and I for one am grateful for the information absorbed from the posts here.

You're only smart when you know what you don't know........

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Grant (SSSF)
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Message 1791135 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 3:42:22 UTC - in response to Message 1791110.  

Remember back to when this thread was started, not everyone had a F/U'd system to begin with. The greater majority of us that attempted to upgrade and had to revert back to Win7 had perfectly good and stable machines.

My system upgraded with no issues at all (even though my hardware is becoming flakey).
My parents, no issues.
I know of 6 others who's systems upgraded with no issues. There were one or 2 others that had some issues because some of their rather old hardware wasn't supported by Win10. Reminds me of going from XP to Vista, Win98 to XP, Win3.11 to Win98. Etc, etc.

The only people I know of with issues are in this thread. Extremely high levels of correlation doesn't mean causation, but it does give some food for thought.
Grant
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Message 1791155 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 4:57:35 UTC

Jerry (aka Barnacules Nerdgasm), ex Microsoft employee, did a pretty good video on Youtube explaining the whys etc, and that despite that underneath Win10 is a pretty good OS, that the tactics of forcing people and the privacy/datamining concerns are over the top.

My Win10 test host Dualboots with Linux, happily munches away with older Ubuntu. For me I would probably need a compelling reason or brain injury to leave it running win10, since no need for DX12 gaming or having my secrets industrially espionaged just yet. Does give me thought to making a Win10 honey-pot though...
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1791168 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 5:15:42 UTC - in response to Message 1791155.  

the tactics of forcing people and the privacy/datamining concerns are over the top.

No disagreement there.

I just find it interesting that people hate Win10 so strongly, regardless of how good it is, just because of the way M$ has gone about pushing it's uptake.
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Message 1791192 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 6:49:27 UTC - in response to Message 1791168.  

the tactics of forcing people and the privacy/datamining concerns are over the top.

No disagreement there.

I just find it interesting that people hate Win10 so strongly, regardless of how good it is, just because of the way M$ has gone about pushing it's uptake.


Well I'm gravitating to that camp myself, despite liking Win10 core similar to Jerry, simply because I have several machines I am not ready to update, and sensitive data and source code (unrelated to Seti/Boinc) wholly inappropriate to expose to the cloud. m$ has absolutely no place collecting/forcing anything that can affect my income/survival.
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1791193 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 6:50:53 UTC - in response to Message 1791155.  
Last modified: 28 May 2016, 6:54:13 UTC

Does give me thought to making a Win10 honey-pot though...

One day, I still want to do this:

http://xkcd.com/350

I think it would be fun.

[edit: related side-note... the alt-text over that image on the source page says "viruses so far have been really disappointing on the 'disable the internet' front and time is running out. When Linux/Mac win in a decade or so the game will be over." I don't recall exactly how old #350 is... but it's getting up there in the years. I'm pretty sure it's past halfway to that "in a decade or so" thought at least.]
Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)
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Message 1791199 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 7:08:06 UTC - in response to Message 1791192.  

I have several machines I am not ready to update, and sensitive data and source code (unrelated to Seti/Boinc) wholly inappropriate to expose to the cloud. m$ has absolutely no place collecting/forcing anything that can affect my income/survival.

That's why I turned all that off when I did the upgrade.
Grant
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Message 1791201 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 7:15:00 UTC - in response to Message 1791193.  

I don't recall exactly how old #350 is... but it's getting up there in the years. I'm pretty sure it's past halfway to that "in a decade or so" thought at least.]

Well, the Blaster worm was around 2003/04, so that probably puts it at around the 10+ years mark.
Grant
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Message 1791202 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 7:18:48 UTC - in response to Message 1791199.  

I have several machines I am not ready to update, and sensitive data and source code (unrelated to Seti/Boinc) wholly inappropriate to expose to the cloud. m$ has absolutely no place collecting/forcing anything that can affect my income/survival.

That's why I turned all that off when I did the upgrade.


Yeah, a bit too much to risk right now. Will definitely happen one day, but not until I can move terabytes of stuff on RAID, onto a NAS
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1791210 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 7:45:55 UTC - in response to Message 1791202.  

I have several machines I am not ready to update, and sensitive data and source code (unrelated to Seti/Boinc) wholly inappropriate to expose to the cloud. m$ has absolutely no place collecting/forcing anything that can affect my income/survival.

That's why I turned all that off when I did the upgrade.


Yeah, a bit too much to risk right now. Will definitely happen one day, but not until I can move terabytes of stuff on RAID, onto a NAS

Even then you need to disable Cortana, the search assistant.
Doing any search using Cortana (like Siri) results in data on the search being sent back home.
So I made sure to turn it off.

Likewise, use a local account, not a M$ account.
Grant
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Message 1791421 - Posted: 28 May 2016, 18:57:27 UTC - in response to Message 1791210.  

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Message 1792563 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 12:44:56 UTC

Wow, just read this article. All I can say is wow, and have to say the best comment I read in the comments section sums it up pretty succinctly:

greywolf7

The article that never should have been written. What an arrogant horse excrement spewing horses posterior


Keep drinking the Kool-aid, Mr. Jason Perlow. Resistance is futile, assimilation is assured! AmIRight? lol

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Message 1792575 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 13:50:28 UTC

Hmm. Why upgrade? Governments and banks are still using very old technologies.
Want to launch a nuclear missile? You'll need a floppy disk.
That's according to a new report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), which found that the Pentagon was still using 1970s-era computing systems that require "eight-inch floppy disks."
The Government Accountability Office (GAO) report says that U.S. government departments spend upwards of $60 billion a year on operating and maintaining out-of-date technologies.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/26/us/pentagon-floppy-disks-nuclear/index.html?sr=twCNN052616pentagon-floppy-disks-nuclear0957AMStoryGalLink&linkId=24889590
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Message 1792581 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 14:11:20 UTC - in response to Message 1792575.  

Hmm. Why upgrade? Governments and banks are still using very old technologies.
Want to launch a nuclear missile? You'll need a floppy disk.(...)

I really feel a lot safer now, knowing this!

Just imagine it's enough to say: "Hey Cortana, fire'em up!", "Hey Siri, give'em a bad day!" or "Hey Google, screw'em up!"
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1792583 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 14:23:35 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jun 2016, 14:30:54 UTC

There is nothing wrong with old technology if it works as designed and does its job. If you over-complicate with the "newest and latest and greatest" you introduce the potential for bugs and errors and security holes and malware, and the more components a thing has, the more there is to fail.

Example: homeowners who weren't happy with a simple mechanical thermostat that works for decades, and needed a Nest "smart" thermostat connected to the internet. Except now it goes and updates its firmware without asking anyone, and the update fails, and it doesn't work anymore which means the furnace is off and perhaps the water pipes will freeze and burst when the owner is away... now imagine this is the cooling system of a nuclear power plant instead.

Some of these "old tech" systems were engineered to a much higher standard of uptime reliability and real-time operation than any consumer-grade OS. Replacing them with a general-purpose machine could compromise this, ie "Sorry... can we put off the imminent attack for an hour? Windows is upgrading again."
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Message 1792585 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 14:30:08 UTC

It's hard to hack a floppy disk in a storage sleeve......

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1792592 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 15:07:35 UTC

I've got to think that the number of hackers actively attacking systems running COBAL, FORTAN and the like are essentially 0. How about them apples (a saying, not the brand), huh? Or old IBM mainframes, bet their vulnerabilites are fairly low as well. I could be wrong, but obsolescence has its advantages... ;-)

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Message 1792608 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 16:40:13 UTC - in response to Message 1792583.  


Example: homeowners who weren't happy with a simple mechanical thermostat that works for decades, and needed a Nest "smart" thermostat connected to the internet.


Precisely.
I built such a system from scratch several (20) years ago, when in my place Internet was very much difficult to reach, at home and away from home.
It is still running reliably and it is even based on discret electronic componentes, though it is made "intelligent" by a computer. Originally a PC, now a RaspberryPI, which in his kind is state of the art, but not the most complex computing system you can think of.

But the important thing is that since the beginning the system was thought so to have back-up systems (even mechanical safety thermostats), so that if anything fails the system reverts to a neutral situation where no problem can arise in the unattended house.

I never had such a problem in all these years. I may have lost contact and control of my house some (very few) times, but I never saw it going toward a critical situation.

This has always been a concern of mine and the result has not been accomplished with state of the art technology, rather also with very old passive devices which you would judge to be even primitive on present standards. Nevertheless, their simple principle of work gives maximum back-up reliability.

Sleepy
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Message 1792625 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 17:49:00 UTC - in response to Message 1792608.  

Are there any happy stories in this thread? :P
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Message 1792634 - Posted: 1 Jun 2016, 18:03:52 UTC - in response to Message 1792625.  
Last modified: 1 Jun 2016, 18:04:17 UTC

Are there any happy stories in this thread? :P

As the thread has been so negative from the start I have not posted.

I will just say I have now converted all 7 of my Windows Vista/7 machines to Win 10 and am happy with the result. I acttually paid for Win 8 licences for the Vista machines so I could then upgrade to Win 10.

Since I have had a Hotmail account for many many years, a Gmail account for almost as long, used both Internet Explore and Google Chrome and have an iPhone I believe that Microsoft, Google and Apple already know all about me.

I don't say I agree with Microsoft's tactics, but they are loosing out to the smart phone and tablet and have to find a way to get back on top.

Many people I know these days don't have a laptop, let alone a desktop, all use smartphones and tablets, which are not Microsoft.

Microsoft have tried to get into these fields but left it too late. The future belongs to Android and iOS not Windows.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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