Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile TimeLord04
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Message 1750499 - Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 3:08:51 UTC - in response to Message 1750497.  

Good evening to everyone some new M$ BS I was running updates yesterday and it was at least a half hour or more before ANY updates downloaded(7 always has been a little slow when doing updates) but this is crazy I did not have any win 10 updates selected so is this how things are going to be if you refuse to give in to M$ and their BU*^$%@#. Just another reason to show M$ the door. I have a cable internet connection and just 2 days ago I did a graphics driver update from nvidia(350+MB downloaded in less than 30 sec.) So I see this as another way that M$ is trying to force us to give in to their demands.

Windows Update on 10 is SLOOOOWWWW too. I'm on 45 Mb Internet with U-Verse; can stream Plex videos while parents watch one U-Verse Stream and record three others and have NO Video Loss, nor degradation... But go for Windows Updates, and they take an hour!!! :-O So, it's the damned MS Servers NOT being able to dish out what they should do. :-(


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Message 1750510 - Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 4:59:57 UTC - in response to Message 1750460.  

It's easier to find updates on a system that only shows new updates when they are released, but when you have ~225 updates show up because of a clean install.. I wasn't going to check every single one of them.


Agreed. I did spot checks of any Win 8.1 updates with published dates in 2012, 2013 and on through June 2014 figuring they were fairly safe. Since Win 10 was due to be released in 2015, I did check each update with publish dates from July 2014 doing one month at a time. I still have November's and December's 2015 still to check through. It is indeed a slow, tedious process. Your list of "updates to avoid" is LOTS smaller than my list of what is okay. :)

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Message 1750534 - Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 8:59:31 UTC

Cosmic_Ocean

I was looking through the forum at Overclock.net and they have this nice batch uninstaller http://www.overclock.net/t/1572731/batch-update-uninstaller-uninstall-forced-win10-telemetry.

You should take a look at it, I think it might have one or two KB updates you might have missed.

I found it interesting and thought you might be interested too.
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Message 1750543 - Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 10:13:37 UTC - in response to Message 1750499.  

Good evening to everyone some new M$ BS I was running updates yesterday and it was at least a half hour or more before ANY updates downloaded(7 always has been a little slow when doing updates) but this is crazy I did not have any win 10 updates selected so is this how things are going to be if you refuse to give in to M$ and their BU*^$%@#. Just another reason to show M$ the door. I have a cable internet connection and just 2 days ago I did a graphics driver update from nvidia(350+MB downloaded in less than 30 sec.) So I see this as another way that M$ is trying to force us to give in to their demands.

Windows Update on 10 is SLOOOOWWWW too. I'm on 45 Mb Internet with U-Verse; can stream Plex videos while parents watch one U-Verse Stream and record three others and have NO Video Loss, nor degradation... But go for Windows Updates, and they take an hour!!! :-O So, it's the damned MS Servers NOT being able to dish out what they should do. :-(

I was just doing a clean install on an 8.1 laptop a few days ago and the update process went something like "found 6 updates" at first, installed those, restart. Found 4 more, update, restart. Found 5 more, update, restart. Found ~210 updates, hid the ones I knew about from my list (and that's when I found a few for 8.1 that I didn't have on my list previously, only because the KB number was very close to ones for 7), and when I told it to go ahead and do those, it was almost two hours before they actually started downloading (even though it said "Downloading 205 updates (0%)" the whole time).

But I know exactly why this happens. If anyone has ever really paid attention, have you ever noticed how the download size (in MBs) has a range, rather than a single amount? That's because when downloading updates from MS directly, every file that the update will..update is checked on your system to get the version number of it, and you can actually end up only downloading half of an update if that's all you need from it. That's why disk activity is usually lit-up solid and there's a lot of CPU time being used, but hardly anything is downloading.

But since I use WSUS, when a computer contacts WSUS, it just asks for the entire update as-is. The last time I did a clean install of vanilla 7, there were 94 updates, then SP1, and then something like 294 updates that follow SP1. During that last portion for 294, once you click 'update' and it goes to start downloading them, it takes about 3 seconds and then pulls about 800mbit from the WSUS machine downloading 1500MB of updates, then begins installing them.

WSUS is a nice thing to have, too, because if you have more than one machine, you can decline these ones to avoid and they won't be in the 'available' list for machines that contact WSUS for updates, so you don't have to investigate updates on individual machines.

That's also a work-around/solution for win10's forced updates that don't ever give you a choice to de-select certain ones: use WSUS. You can decide when to approve updates in that, and if you decide to only do that once per month, then the win10 machines won't find any new updates until WSUS has them available for distribution.

WSUS is probably a bit of overkill at home with just 1-4 machines though, and that sort-of neat feature of 10 to allow for distributed updates (it does have the option of local-only or Internet) somewhat negates the purpose for WSUS overall: the updates get downloaded from the Internet once, and then get distributed to however many machines are configured to ask WSUS for updates. I learned about it and how to use it when I was working at my local college and we had 1400 computers in all of the labs and I had to Ghost them at the start of every semester. One server downloading updates from the Internet is much less burden on the ISP connection than 1400 that are going and getting the same data.

But I still like using it, because it gives me total control of what happens on my machines.
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Message 1750562 - Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 13:17:10 UTC

This morning a Christmas present arrived from the folks in Redmond.....KB3035583 and KB3102812.....trying to look innocent and begging for installation......constant vigilance against virus and hackers is expected, but against the System designers? This BS is getting extremely tiresome.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1751492 - Posted: 24 Dec 2015, 13:30:17 UTC

Great. Testing Bitdefender Total Security 2016 here on one of my systems and I noticed it has taken over Windows Update. So with each check for updates it'll tell me my system is vulnerable and that I have to install all these updates, including ones that may install crap for WinX's take-over policy on my system.

I can uncheck those updates, but not hide them. So on each check, these updates come back. Not sure I like that, BD!
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Message 1751510 - Posted: 24 Dec 2015, 14:58:10 UTC

Great. I allowed Bitdefender to install KB3102429, KB3112148 and KB3107998, all recommended. Rebooted and entered hell. On each next try to do something, after Windows log in I got a message that explorer.exe had stopped responding and that it needed to be closed, leaving me with two black screens and a mouse pointer.

So I rebooted into Safe Mode, rummaged around a bit. Managed to download AppCrashView from Nulsoft, had to manually unpack it using a command prompt and 7zip, ran it and saw explorer.exe had crashed 49 times the past hour. And in all LoadedModule[3]=N:\Bitdefender\Bitdefender 2016\Active Virus Control\Avc3_00331_002\avcuf64.dll seemed to play a role.

Result: I uninstalled Bitdefender and everything is fixed. I can reach Windows Update again, I can use Windows Explorer again, I don't have to wait absolute ages for anything to open.

But why it all worked before these three updates, I don't know. So something in these updates does not work well with Bitdefender then. I see KB3102429 has problems with some programs out there, so maybe that it is the culprit.

Will do a test run of G Data next. Or shall I backup my computer first this time? ;-)
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Profile Louis Loria II
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Message 1751544 - Posted: 24 Dec 2015, 17:51:47 UTC

Again, I have had my own problems with Windoze 10. However, it seems to have settled down. I have made adjustments to my clocks and I haven't had a problem lately. My RAC seems to indicate that in the affirmative. I do not run any third party antivirus (I don't frequent the websites and downloads I did a few years ago). My Rig is stable and powerful, given the hardware I have.

I really don't understand the angst, Windoze Defender and Malwarebytes cover all of the bases for me.

Are the rest of you overthinking your protection, or are you paranoid? I don't know.

I am however thinking about building a Linux system, just for Sh&%$ and giggles. we'll see.

Peace, Merry Christmas and happy crunching.
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Message 1751915 - Posted: 27 Dec 2015, 20:46:57 UTC - in response to Message 1751544.  

Again, I have had my own problems with Windoze 10. However, it seems to have settled down. I have made adjustments to my clocks and I haven't had a problem lately. My RAC seems to indicate that in the affirmative. I do not run any third party antivirus (I don't frequent the websites and downloads I did a few years ago). My Rig is stable and powerful, given the hardware I have.

I really don't understand the angst, Windoze Defender and Malwarebytes cover all of the bases for me.

Are the rest of you overthinking your protection, or are you paranoid? I don't know.

I am however thinking about building a Linux system, just for Sh&%$ and giggles. we'll see.

Peace, Merry Christmas and happy crunching.


AMD FX-8350 at 4100mhz, water cooled
16gigs of G-Skill Ripjaws RAM at 1600mhz
2-Powercolor R9 280Xs 1030/1500mhz
Gigabyte GA970-UD3 MOBO
Samsung EVO 850 SSD
EVGA Supernova P2 1200W PSU


Just broke 50K RAC with this rig....
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Message 1751922 - Posted: 27 Dec 2015, 22:01:13 UTC
Last modified: 27 Dec 2015, 22:01:27 UTC

Dont get me wrong Louis but your CPU times aren`t that good.
You could do better.
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Profile Louis Loria II
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Message 1751943 - Posted: 28 Dec 2015, 0:14:30 UTC - in response to Message 1751922.  

Dont get me wrong Louis but your CPU times aren`t that good.
You could do better.


Really not concerned about my CPU times, a substantial jump in RAC would require an intel processor(admittedly). As far as AMD, I am doing well. If you have advice that may help, I am all ears....
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Message 1752063 - Posted: 28 Dec 2015, 14:02:30 UTC - in response to Message 1751943.  

Dont get me wrong Louis but your CPU times aren`t that good.
You could do better.


Really not concerned about my CPU times, a substantial jump in RAC would require an intel processor(admittedly). As far as AMD, I am doing well. If you have advice that may help, I am all ears....

That's about what I would expect from the Bulldozer/Piledriver/Excavator/[I swear there's a fourth one, and I can never remember the name of it] shared-FPU architecture, especially if you're running more than 50% of the cores (the example I looked at was ~37k seconds for 2.39% blanked).

I've got a first-gen Bulldozer (6100) at stock speeds (3.3ghz), and I run 50% of the cores to get stable times (otherwise, the elapsed times increase by 20-40%, but overall productivity doesn't increase by that much; essentially, running all six cores yields ~4 cores worth of actual production). You can see here what my Bulldozer manages in the best of conditions (half-utilized, optimized apps).

AMD on this project isn't really all that great. This project heavily favors Intel clock-for-clock, just because of the design differences of the CPU. You might be able to decrease your elapsed times (but not necessarily the overall production) by dropping down to 50% of the CPU cores in BOINC. That would also cut your heat by a bit, and you could probably squeeze more OC out of it, being water-cooled. I'm on air and mine idles at 31C, 38C at 50% load, 47C at 100%.
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Message 1752065 - Posted: 28 Dec 2015, 14:28:52 UTC
Last modified: 28 Dec 2015, 14:31:28 UTC

I am using an AMD A10-6700 at 3.7 GHz but it goes up to 4.14 GHz without any intervention on my side. It has 4 cores according to AMD, 2 cores and 4 logical processors according to Windows 10 Task Manager. Three cores are used by CERN projects with Virtual Box, the fourth core runs a CPDN project at low speed. They all have the same BOINC rating. The HP PC has both an onboard graphic and a Radeon Graphic board. SETI@home can use both, Einstein@home sees only the onboard graphic and is very slow. But I run mostly CPU only tasks.
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Message 1752093 - Posted: 28 Dec 2015, 17:44:07 UTC - in response to Message 1752063.  
Last modified: 28 Dec 2015, 17:44:22 UTC

Bulldozer/Piledriver/Excavator/[I swear there's a fourth one, and I can never remember the name of it]

Seeing the list, you'd expect Backhoe, but no, it's Steamroller.
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Message 1752103 - Posted: 28 Dec 2015, 18:46:55 UTC - in response to Message 1752063.  

Dont get me wrong Louis but your CPU times aren`t that good.
You could do better.


Really not concerned about my CPU times, a substantial jump in RAC would require an intel processor(admittedly). As far as AMD, I am doing well. If you have advice that may help, I am all ears....


That's about what I would expect from the Bulldozer/Piledriver/Excavator/[I swear there's a fourth one, and I can never remember the name of it] shared-FPU architecture, especially if you're running more than 50% of the cores (the example I looked at was ~37k seconds for 2.39% blanked).

I've got a first-gen Bulldozer (6100) at stock speeds (3.3ghz), and I run 50% of the cores to get stable times (otherwise, the elapsed times increase by 20-40%, but overall productivity doesn't increase by that much; essentially, running all six cores yields ~4 cores worth of actual production). You can see here what my Bulldozer manages in the best of conditions (half-utilized, optimized apps).


AMD on this project isn't really all that great. This project heavily favors Intel clock-for-clock, just because of the design differences of the CPU. You might be able to decrease your elapsed times (but not necessarily the overall production) by dropping down to 50% of the CPU cores in BOINC. That would also cut your heat by a bit, and you could probably squeeze more OC out of it, being water-cooled. I'm on air and mine idles at 31C, 38C at 50% load, 47C at 100%.


I have never been an intel fan simply because of the cost. Like most people here, I build my own rigs. It is actually strange that I have only one, I usually have two or three at any given time. Maybe its time to build an intel/NVidia rig.

Currently I am running 4 CPU units and 6 GPU units at a time (normally), depending on AP availability. My CPU temps hover around 42C and my GPUs around 75-80C. I have played with it a lot over the past few weeks, this seems to be my sweet spot.
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Message 1752132 - Posted: 28 Dec 2015, 21:37:18 UTC - in response to Message 1752103.  

Dont get me wrong Louis but your CPU times aren`t that good.
You could do better.


Really not concerned about my CPU times, a substantial jump in RAC would require an intel processor(admittedly). As far as AMD, I am doing well. If you have advice that may help, I am all ears....


That's about what I would expect from the Bulldozer/Piledriver/Excavator/[I swear there's a fourth one, and I can never remember the name of it] shared-FPU architecture, especially if you're running more than 50% of the cores (the example I looked at was ~37k seconds for 2.39% blanked).

I've got a first-gen Bulldozer (6100) at stock speeds (3.3ghz), and I run 50% of the cores to get stable times (otherwise, the elapsed times increase by 20-40%, but overall productivity doesn't increase by that much; essentially, running all six cores yields ~4 cores worth of actual production). You can see here what my Bulldozer manages in the best of conditions (half-utilized, optimized apps).


AMD on this project isn't really all that great. This project heavily favors Intel clock-for-clock, just because of the design differences of the CPU. You might be able to decrease your elapsed times (but not necessarily the overall production) by dropping down to 50% of the CPU cores in BOINC. That would also cut your heat by a bit, and you could probably squeeze more OC out of it, being water-cooled. I'm on air and mine idles at 31C, 38C at 50% load, 47C at 100%.


I have never been an intel fan simply because of the cost. Like most people here, I build my own rigs. It is actually strange that I have only one, I usually have two or three at any given time. Maybe its time to build an intel/NVidia rig.

Currently I am running 4 CPU units and 6 GPU units at a time (normally), depending on AP availability. My CPU temps hover around 42C and my GPUs around 75-80C. I have played with it a lot over the past few weeks, this seems to be my sweet spot.


Correction; 2 CPU units and 6 GPU units...
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Message 1752276 - Posted: 29 Dec 2015, 14:41:14 UTC


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Message 1752277 - Posted: 29 Dec 2015, 14:58:59 UTC
Last modified: 29 Dec 2015, 14:59:41 UTC

Microsoft responds to Windows 10 upgrade concerns.

Microsoft Marketing Chief Chris Capossela joined the Windows Weekly team this week for a questions and answers session covering HoloLens, Windows 10, Surface 4 and other Microsoft related questions.

One question touched Microsoft's upgrade push on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 systems, and the fact that the company's methods to get users to upgrade to Windows 10 have become more aggressive.
Capossela argued that Microsoft is trying to find the right balance as it moved to Windows as a Service, and that it is trying to reduce the fragmentation of the install base by getting users to upgrade to Windows 10.
Look we made Windows 10 for free for anybody who has a Windows 7 or 8 machine. You can call that freemium if you want, but that was a decision, you know we did not take that decision lightly.
For us, it was just so incredibly important to try to end the fragmentation of the Windows install base, and so we think that every machine that is capable of running Windows 10 we should be doing everything we possibly can to get people to move to Windows 10.

We always want to give them the choice, and we are trying to find the right UI constructs, we are trying to find the right upgrade constructs that we think are going to please as many people as possible.

Another reason for pushing Windows 10 upgrades hard is that Microsoft is worried about the user experience as software or hardware may not work well or at all on older systems.

But we do worry when people are running an operating system that is 10 years old that the next printer they buy is not going to work well, or they buy a new game, they buy Fallout 4, a very popular game and it does not work on a bunch of older machines.

And so, as we are pushing our hardware partners to build great new stuff that takes advantage of Windows 10 that obviously makes the old stuff really bad and not to mention viruses and security problems. So, we really are trying to push people to get to Windows 10.

Now the good thing about Windows is that lots and lots of people care and you get constant feedback. You know, we are willing to put up with some level of discomfort if we feel like we are getting more and more people to a safer, better operating system that is frankly better for everyone in the ecosystem.


Capossela referred to automatic updates on other device types, Apple's iPhone, Microsoft's Xbox and other devices, and how people are comfortable with the mechanism on those devices, and that this change in the PC world is "slightly more uncomfortable" for people because of the PC's longstanding history.

Microsoft is aware that its pushy methods are angering some users.

We are going to keep at it. We are going to try to find that right balance, but we just know there is a lot of people out there who constantly kick the can down the street without a little bit more of a, frankly, a push.

And so, you know, there is no doubt with a base as big as ours, it is hard to move anyone to a new model without angering some people.

Microsoft will continue to push Windows 10 upgrades, and it is likely that the new operating system will be pushed even more aggressively than it is right now.

While the company is aware that its actions are angering some users, mostly those who don't want to upgrade, those user numbers seem to pale in comparison to users taking Microsoft up on the offer and upgrading their machines to the new operating system.
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Message 1752296 - Posted: 29 Dec 2015, 16:18:07 UTC - in response to Message 1752277.  

Microsoft can "push" as hard as they want win 10 ain't going on my computers . Just gives me ammo when the scammers phone saying my computers have got a problem and they will sort it out for me ;-)
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Message 1752298 - Posted: 29 Dec 2015, 16:23:50 UTC

Greetings,

How soon before Window$ becomes ransomware? ;)

We are going to keep at it. We are going to try to find that right balance, but we just know there is are a lot of people out there who constantly kick the can down the street without a little bit more of a, frankly, a push.

That guy needs to learn proper grammar.

People will only be pushed so far before they start pushing back, such as those here dumping Window$ and moving to Linux. Or those staying with their older version of Window$, like I have done.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr XO - L L & P _\\//
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Winders 10 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
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