So I assume you have lawsuits out against every cell-phone provider, game manufacturer, and software developer?

I do not have a cell phone or any games except solitaire and I have not purchased any new software in over a decade except for the operating systems that came installed on my PCs.

---

So I assume you have lawsuits out against every cell-phone provider, game manufacturer, and software developer?

I do not have a cell phone or any games except solitaire and I have not purchased any new software in over a decade except for the operating systems that came installed on my PCs.

That explains your outdated definition of "theft" then.

OzzFan

That explains your outdated definition of "theft" then.

I know the difference between right and wrong and if you don't I'm sorry.

---

Betreger

I know the difference between right and wrong and if you don't I'm sorry.

No need to be sorry. It's understandable when the world leaves someone behind they tend to have skewed views.

It would be great if Micro$oft would leave my hidden updates hidden.

They're just reissuing the patches with some new code in them, so it's then essentially a new file, with a new md5 hash if you want. So that's why it's again showing up in the list.

Greetings Jord,

So, are you saying that Micro$oft is 'improving' upon the old ones hoping that we will miss them and get them installed so that they can commandeer our Win7 and 8.1 PCs as they have done with the Window$ 10 PCs? Shame on them! ;) As I have stated earlier, I have no intentions of installing any updates from May 2015 onward. :) And I have Window$ Updates turned off so it will stop nagging me and stop creating havoc with 'MY' PC. :)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

I don't get it. In the AVG threat thread you tell others they should not slag the OP of that thread off, but in this thread when betreger posts he has severe reservations against Windows 10 for reasons totally his own, you feel the need to ridicule him. Why?

Why must betreger get Windows 10 in your opinion?
Why must we all?
Is it all right, in your personal opinion, that Microsoft pushes Windows setup files onto people's machines without them having given consent to do so and tries to execute those at every reboot? Does that feel like a trusty organization?

The justification of Windows 10 fans that 'others do it' is getting stale.
But it appears you do like some kind of privacy, for why else do you name yourself Ozfan around here, and not post with your full name, address, telephone number, all email addresses, your birthday, your social security number, your bank numbers and underwear size. All information you apparently don't mind sharing with Microsoft.

---

So, are you saying that Micro$oft is 'improving' upon the old ones hoping that we will miss them and get them installed so that they can commandeer our Win7 and 8.1 PCs as they have done with the Window$ 10 PCs?

Well yes, because in the end you will want Windows 10 as it will be the last Windows there will ever be. It will continue to be updated in the way the Windows 10 users have found out, so if there's ever going to be a Windows 10.2, they'll get it automatically. And probably it'll block then and they're told to pay 70 dollars to continue using their Windows. Ransomware.

But since others do it that way, it's all right.

Or they'll stop sending security updates to Windows 7 and 8.1; wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: I hear in the field that the "Update to Windows 10" update is showing up as an Optional update in people's Windows Update and that it can happen that you have to hide it three times before it yields.. for an hour, after which you get three 2GB updates offered!

---

So I assume you have lawsuits out against every cell-phone provider, game manufacturer, and software developer?

I do not have a cell phone or any games except solitaire and I have not purchased any new software in over a decade except for the operating systems that came installed on my PCs.

I do have a cell phone, a 10 year old 'dumb flip phone', I don't use Facebook, I have only 'tweeted' 4 times, my communication of choice is verbal face to face.

In my opinion, people use 'smart' phones because they aren't......

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

I don't get it. In the AVG threat thread you tell others they should not slag the OP of that thread off, but in this thread when betreger posts he has severe reservations against Windows 10 for reasons totally his own, you feel the need to ridicule him. Why?

I am not slagging Betreger for his "severe reservations" against Windows 10. I am saying that there seems to be a lot of anti-MS rhetoric in this thread - some well founded, and others not so much.

Betreger's specific issue that I find odd is his claim of bandwidth theft. When I challenged his view and compared it to others in the industry, he confessed that he doesn't own a cell phone and doesn't buy software. OK, that's fine and I can accept that, but let's not level the "theft" allegation against Microsoft alone when Microsoft is actually late to the game in this regard.

Why must betreger get Windows 10 in your opinion?
Why must we all?

I think you're going off on a tangent here, Ageless. I never made the claim anyone needs to get Windows 10. Why is it that if I defend certain practices, people automatically jump to the conclusion that I am saying they must do something? Is it not possible that, regardless of their own personal stance against any one thing, that perhaps some of their foundations aren't entirely correct?

Is it all right, in your personal opinion, that Microsoft pushes Windows setup files onto people's machines without them having given consent to do so and tries to execute those at every reboot? Does that feel like a trusty organization?

Yes. I think it is OK for Microsoft to push setup files to other people's machines without their consent. I think with the future, we are heading toward making technology as easy and accessible as possible for everyone, and part of that means making OS and software upgrades easier. This also means not waiting for it to download, as that affects the user's perspective on the upgrade.

The justification of Windows 10 fans that 'others do it' is getting stale.

Of course it isn't. It's only stale to those that don't like hearing the argument. They only want to be heard when it comes to their complaints, but they don't want to hear that their complaints, when applied fairly to every other aspect, suddenly falls apart. It highlights how unfair they're being and no one really wants to hear that.

But it appears you do like some kind of privacy, for why else do you name yourself Ozfan around here, and not post with your full name, address, telephone number, all email addresses, your birthday, your social security number, your bank numbers and underwear size. All information you apparently don't mind sharing with Microsoft.

I'm pretty sure I previously said, not too long ago in this thread, that I am a privacy advocate. I enjoy my privacy. But that being said, I don't mind what Microsoft is doing; I know it is being done by so many other companies. I know there's great potential to do harm if some of my information gets into the wrong hands (underwear size excluded).

All this means to me is that we need to make sure the information is handled with care. That also means that inevitably, there will be times when the information is mishandled.

If others don't want to take that risk, that's fine. That's their choice, and I'm not going to try to change their minds. What I will challenge every time I see it, is logical inconsistencies that seem unfair to me. After all, no less is done to me every time I speak up on these forums.

And probably it'll block then and they're told to pay 70 dollars to continue using their Windows. Ransomware.

See? It's this type of rhetoric that gets old. "And they'll probably block updates". You have no proof of that. It's an unfounded statement meant to cause fear and panic in would-be upgraders. I can't prove it isn't true, so it goes right into the conspiracy camp. And there's a lot of people that love a good conspiracy.

But yes, I wouldn't doubt it in the least if there comes a time when Microsoft releases a Windows that is subscription based. If there's a market for it, then people will buy it and it will be successful. If there's no market for it, then the product will fail and Microsoft will have to look to other options.

But since others do it that way, it's all right.

Now this just comes across as very cynical. Why the cynicism leveled against Microsoft, but that same level of cynicism isn't leveled against others? Oh right. That argument is stale because you don't want to hear it. (Yes, that was cynical of me).

Or they'll stop sending security updates to Windows 7 and 8.1; wouldn't be the first time.

Well yes, they will stop sending security updates to Windows 7 in five more years. That is no secret and has always been true. Microsoft shouldn't be expected to continue to support old product. They support the OS for 10 years as it is. And Windows 8.1 will eventually suffer the same fate as well.

So, are you saying that Micro$oft is 'improving' upon the old ones hoping that we will miss them and get them installed so that they can commandeer our Win7 and 8.1 PCs as they have done with the Window$ 10 PCs?

Well yes, because in the end you will want Windows 10 as it will be the last Windows there will ever be. It will continue to be updated in the way the Windows 10 users have found out, so if there's ever going to be a Windows 10.2, they'll get it automatically. And probably it'll block then and they're told to pay 70 dollars to continue using their Windows. Ransomware.

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Jord,

I can see it now:

Micro$oft: ALL PCs in the world running Window$ now belong to us. If you want to continue using 'OUR' PCs then you will be required to open an account with us using a valid credit card*. We will take your money once a year so you can continue to use 'OUR' PCs. This is not optional, this is mandatory.
* Cash, debit and gift cards will not be accepted. Credit cards only.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

In my opinion, people use 'smart' phones because they aren't......

I guess in your opinion, I'm not smart. Well, in return, in my opinion people who make statements like yours are merely Luddites, and will resort to offending others to show how proud they are of their unchanging ways.

So, are you saying that Micro$oft is 'improving' upon the old ones hoping that we will miss them and get them installed so that they can commandeer our Win7 and 8.1 PCs as they have done with the Window$ 10 PCs?

Well yes, because in the end you will want Windows 10 as it will be the last Windows there will ever be. It will continue to be updated in the way the Windows 10 users have found out, so if there's ever going to be a Windows 10.2, they'll get it automatically. And probably it'll block then and they're told to pay 70 dollars to continue using their Windows. Ransomware.

-[ snip ]-

I can see it now:

Micro$oft: ALL PCs in the world running Window$ now belong to us. If you want to continue using 'OUR' PCs then you will be required to open an account with us using a valid credit card*. We will take your money once a year so you can continue to use 'OUR' PCs. This is not optional, this is mandatory.
* Cash, debit and gift cards will not be accepted. Credit cards only.

Oh, more conspiracy! This is fun! Let me join in:

I can see it now:

Micro$haft: And now that we have made you pay for this software on OUR PCs, we will be force-pushing Microsoft Bob to everyone in punishment for all those that dare spoke out against us during or formative years dominating the market. You can have Bob removed for [puts pinky to mouth] ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

So, are you saying that Micro$oft is 'improving' upon the old ones hoping that we will miss them and get them installed so that they can commandeer our Win7 and 8.1 PCs as they have done with the Window$ 10 PCs?

Well yes, because in the end you will want Windows 10 as it will be the last Windows there will ever be. It will continue to be updated in the way the Windows 10 users have found out, so if there's ever going to be a Windows 10.2, they'll get it automatically. And probably it'll block then and they're told to pay 70 dollars to continue using their Windows. Ransomware.

-[ snip ]-

I can see it now:

Micro$oft: ALL PCs in the world running Window$ now belong to us. If you want to continue using 'OUR' PCs then you will be required to open an account with us using a valid credit card*. We will take your money once a year so you can continue to use 'OUR' PCs. This is not optional, this is mandatory.
* Cash, debit and gift cards will not be accepted. Credit cards only.

Oh, more conspiracy! This is fun! Let me join in:

I can see it now:

Micro$haft: And now that we have made you pay for this software on OUR PCs, we will be force-pushing Microsoft Bob to everyone in punishment for all those that dare spoke out against us during or formative years dominating the market. You can have Bob removed for [puts pinky to mouth] ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

Ozz,

Dude, I like you. You have given me help many time in the past. But, don't start sniping at me too.

I spent almost a month trying to get this PC back into working order per my requirements and settings. With the crap Micro$oft did with it's updates and the roll back it was a nightmare. My PC is now working just fine. The last thing I had to do was to disable Window$ Updates. Ever since the 'new' version, or whatever it was, hit my PC, it too was creating havoc. It would suck up my RAM and cause jerkiness with how the PC did things like a simple scroll of a page. It would go, stop, go, stop, go... This no longer happens.

What I said in that post may be closer to the truth about Micro$oft than you know. Window$ 10 will NOT always be free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Micro$oft will get their money eventually and I can see them getting it in the way I described above. As Jord says: "Ransomware"

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

In my opinion, people use 'smart' phones because they aren't......

I guess in your opinion, I'm not smart. Well, in return, in my opinion people who make statements like yours are merely Luddites, and will resort to offending others to show how proud they are of their unchanging ways.

Your words, not mine. And your assumption of my beliefs, not my beliefs.

If the 'smart' phone is on constantly, if the day is spent 'OMGing' on Twitter, or taking 'selfies' with one's food and drink, or updating a Facebook page because you went into another room, or reading a text while operating a 3,000 pound projectile at 70 miles per hour, then yes. The phone is smarter than the owner.

If not, why assume I so categorize you? Your assertion I have a Luddite philosophy is obviously incorrect or I wouldn't be using my computers to assist in the search for XT life. You have been the one championing the virtues of Window$ 10 and M$, as always time and the Consumer will be the judge(with possibly a few judicial rulings thrown in).

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

So, are you saying that Micro$oft is 'improving' upon the old ones hoping that we will miss them and get them installed so that they can commandeer our Win7 and 8.1 PCs as they have done with the Window$ 10 PCs?

Well yes, because in the end you will want Windows 10 as it will be the last Windows there will ever be. It will continue to be updated in the way the Windows 10 users have found out, so if there's ever going to be a Windows 10.2, they'll get it automatically. And probably it'll block then and they're told to pay 70 dollars to continue using their Windows. Ransomware.

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Jord,

I can see it now:

Micro$oft: ALL PCs in the world running Window$ now belong to us. If you want to continue using 'OUR' PCs then you will be required to open an account with us using a valid credit card*. We will take your money once a year so you can continue to use 'OUR' PCs. This is not optional, this is mandatory.
* Cash, debit and gift cards will not be accepted. Credit cards only.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

It isn't your PC they own, it is their software. Check in with Mac, I'll bet they have the same terms. Only open source OSs belong to you as long as you publish any changes or improvements you make to said OS.

---

I am not slagging Betreger for his "severe reservations" against Windows 10. I am saying that there seems to be a lot of anti-MS rhetoric in this thread - some well founded, and others not so much.

It started nice and all, with you asking about the lawsuits out against every cell-phone provider, game manufacturer, and software developer, but your That explains your outdated definition of "theft" then and It's understandable when the world leaves someone behind they tend to have skewed views aren't your way to ridicule what he's saying? Gosh, I wouldn't want to be in your way then if you really start ridiculing me, I'd probably better not show my face in the forums then anymore.

Betreger's specific issue that I find odd is his claim of bandwidth theft.

But Windows 10 is stealing bandwidth. By default the Windows Update peer to peer sharing option is on. For people who aren't so computer savvy, this option will still be on. They are paying for their internet connection, that Microsoft is then using to easier share updates between systems. How is that not stealing people's bandwidth?
The option isn't easily disabled either. Hidden three screens deep isn't easy.

Why is it that if I defend certain practices, people automatically jump to the conclusion that I am saying they must do something? Is it not possible that, regardless of their own personal stance against any one thing, that perhaps some of their foundations aren't entirely correct?

But here you're doing it again, ridiculing people because their believes - not wanting to update to WIndows 10 because of their own reasons - have wrong foundations. According to you. So yes, in a sense you tell them that since their believes about Windows 10 are unfounded, that they should update to it. You're just not repeating every post that most all of the privacy invading stuff can be disabled -until Microsoft reenables it- and that the world is a better place once they've succumbed and joined their rank in the new World Order.

Yes. I think it is OK for Microsoft to push setup files to other people's machines without their consent. I think with the future, we are heading toward making technology as easy and accessible as possible for everyone, and part of that means making OS and software upgrades easier. This also means not waiting for it to download, as that affects the user's perspective on the upgrade.

Honest answer. I'll be waiting until that day that you start your computer, to find it's lost the Windows 10 equivalent of NTLDR and therefore cannot start. And that you can fix that with a WIndows 10 start-up DVD, that you lack. Let me dream!

The justification of Windows 10 fans that 'others do it' is getting stale.

Of course it isn't. It's only stale to those that don't like hearing the argument. They only want to be heard when it comes to their complaints, but they don't want to hear that their complaints, when applied fairly to every other aspect, suddenly falls apart. It highlights how unfair they're being and no one really wants to hear that.

Of course it is getting stale, because it is the only justification that's about given to install and run Windows 10 and to smile when you do so. I've already asked on other (Dutch) forums and here, that people give proof of their argument that those others do it. Go on, give me those links to reviews/research/the movie that show without a reasonable doubt that the others do it as well. All of them, whomever they all are.

Or perhaps just one: I have a Huawei G700 with Android 4.2.1. Tell me what on it is sent to Huawei, what is sent to Google? Please when giving the links, that they be to anywhere else than the general conspiracy channels.

I'm pretty sure I previously said, not too long ago in this thread, that I am a privacy advocate. I enjoy my privacy. But that being said, I don't mind what Microsoft is doing; I know it is being done by so many other companies. I know there's great potential to do harm if some of my information gets into the wrong hands (underwear size excluded).

Just this past week Europe's top court ruled Tuesday that data stored on U.S. servers is potentially unsafe because of government spying and that American sites should stop storing European private data. Of course, you as an American have the luxury of not minding that, as you're not European. "The message is clear — that mass surveillance is not possible and against fundamental rights in Europe."

See? It's this type of rhetoric that gets old. "And they'll probably block updates". You have no proof of that.

No, but then I don't need proof of that. It was a highly sarcastic post, in answer to Rick, who won't be fooled by any of this either.

It's an unfounded statement meant to cause fear and panic in would-be upgraders.

Of which there are many here on the Seti forums, on page X of this thread. They cannot be chased away, stuck to our every word that they are. That difficult decission, who is going to make it for them?

I can't prove it isn't true, so it goes right into the conspiracy camp. And there's a lot of people that love a good conspiracy.

Come watch some X Files with me? I'm going through seasons 1 to 9 again in anticipation of season 10.

But since others do it that way, it's all right.

Now this just comes across as very cynical. Why the cynicism leveled against Microsoft, but that same level of cynicism isn't leveled against others? Oh right. That argument is stale because you don't want to hear it. (Yes, that was cynical of me).

Now you're putting words in my mouth with thoughts in my mind. And you weren't into astrology, right?

I'm repeating that to Rick, because it's about all we ever hear from the WinX fans: it's all right that whatever you put onto your own computer is actually Microsoft copyright and can be used by them for advertisements sent back to you in the OS on that same computer. You shouldn't complain about it. It's what the others do as well! :-)

Or they'll stop sending security updates to Windows 7 and 8.1; wouldn't be the first time.

Well yes, they will stop sending security updates to Windows 7 in five more years. That is no secret and has always been true. Microsoft shouldn't be expected to continue to support old product. They support the OS for 10 years as it is. And Windows 8.1 will eventually suffer the same fate as well.

Without updating to Windows 8.1 you won't get any security updates anymore for Windows 8. Seeing how every link to the original EULA of Windows 7 is gone, aside from the short PDF stating only the general jada jada, it wouldn't surprise me that soon they'll say to me: 'hey, you haven't got any of our telemetry updates installed, we cannot snoop on your system, so we won't send you further security updates. Jump through our hoops and be full of joy when you do!'

---

It isn't your PC they own, it is their software

I bought these PCs with factory installed operating systems and they were built to a certain spec, now MS wants to change that spec and that may result in them not doing what I purchased them for.

---

So, are you saying that Micro$oft is 'improving' upon the old ones hoping that we will miss them and get them installed so that they can commandeer our Win7 and 8.1 PCs as they have done with the Window$ 10 PCs?

Well yes, because in the end you will want Windows 10 as it will be the last Windows there will ever be. It will continue to be updated in the way the Windows 10 users have found out, so if there's ever going to be a Windows 10.2, they'll get it automatically. And probably it'll block then and they're told to pay 70 dollars to continue using their Windows. Ransomware.

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Jord,

I can see it now:

Micro$oft: ALL PCs in the world running Window$ now belong to us. If you want to continue using 'OUR' PCs then you will be required to open an account with us using a valid credit card*. We will take your money once a year so you can continue to use 'OUR' PCs. This is not optional, this is mandatory.
* Cash, debit and gift cards will not be accepted. Credit cards only.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

It isn't your PC they own, it is their software. Check in with Mac, I'll bet they have the same terms. Only open source OSs belong to you as long as you publish any changes or improvements you make to said OS.

Greetings Louis,

You are absolutely correct. It is their software they own. But, it is MY PC and it will run the way *I* want it to run. Window$ 10 does not allow the PC to run the way *I* want it to. And now Micro$oft is sending out 'updates' that want to turn my Win7 PC into a Window$ 10 work-a-like. Bull crap! I won't have it. If the Governments of the world allow Micro$oft to continue as they are, no one's PC, running Window$, will be their own. Those PCs will run the way Micro$oft wants them to and the users be damned if they want something different.

Do you remember the UEFI debacle a couple years ago? Micro$oft wanted the UEFI BIOS to only allow Window$ to be installed on computers. Someone stepped in and said "You cannot do that." So there is a compromise. You can have it set to allow only Window$, but there is a setting that will allow other Operating Systems besides. Now they are doing something similar with Window$ 10, not to mention all the privacy invasion the 'software' does.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

Dude, I like you. You have given me help many time in the past. But, don't start sniping at me too.

Then please stop the stupidity.

What I said in that post may be closer to the truth about Micro$oft than you know. Window$ 10 will NOT always be free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Micro$oft will get their money eventually and I can see them getting it in the way I described above. As Jord says: "Ransomware"

I think it's farther from the truth than you care to realize. There is absolutely no reason for Microsoft to risk a class-action lawsuit with giving away Windows 10 for free, then forcing people to pay for it later. It just isn't going to happen.