Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile Siran d'Vel'nahr
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Message 1944445 - Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 14:06:53 UTC - in response to Message 1944430.  

Guess what? Who in their right mind sits and reads the WHOLE EULA when installing software? Do you? I doubt it.
I read the EULA when it was first available for -[ snip ]-

Always read the EULA. And otherwise, don't complain. You willingly said it was OK for them to misuse your computer in any way they see fit, while you had the chance to go for a Mac (with another proprietary OS) or Linux (and then install Windows 7 via KVM). And as has been pointed out plenty of times in this thread, Windows 7 runs fine on Coffee Lake and Kaby Lake, the only thing that won't install is the Intel GPU because those drivers are for Win10 only. You may need to do some handwork to get drivers unpacked, but essentially it'll work.

Yeah, right! Install an OS that will be obsolete in 5.5 months. Really good idea there Jord. I'd already looked into installing Win 7 before I got my 8th gen parts to build. I decided that since end-of-life was too soon and that there are too many hoops to jump through to install Win 7 and the fact that no one will supply any driver updates for it because Micro$oft told them not too, I decided to byte the bullet and go with Windows 10.

I won't do Mac and I have tried to get Windows software to install on Linux with Wine and it just downright sux. Wine needs more evolution before it can run Windows software without crashing all the time and other such crap.

I can complain all I want about Micro$oft... :P

Have a great day my friend! :)

Siran
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Message 1944460 - Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 14:46:00 UTC - in response to Message 1944445.  

5.5 months? Windows 7 has support until January 2020, not 2019. And probably after that, seeing how they've released all kinds of updates for XP even though that one's no longer supported. As long as governments and communal homes keep using these versions, there'll be updates. It's also not as if Windows will all of a sudden be less secure after that date in January 2020, it won't stop working the next day, you can still download additional security for it. And really, when was the last time you had a security scare, virus, break in, ransomware?
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Message 1944490 - Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 17:29:14 UTC - in response to Message 1944460.  

5.5 months? Windows 7 has support until January 2020, not 2019. And probably after that, seeing how they've released all kinds of updates for XP even though that one's no longer supported. As long as governments and communal homes keep using these versions, there'll be updates. It's also not as if Windows will all of a sudden be less secure after that date in January 2020, it won't stop working the next day, you can still download additional security for it. And really, when was the last time you had a security scare, virus, break in, ransomware?

Ok, you got me on that one. lol My bad. For whatever reason I was thinking next year was 2020. That's what I get for thinking in the future. ;)

Are individuals like you and me allowed to get those XP updates IF we were still using the OS? I kinda think that it is the Enterprise version that is still getting the updates.

Third party security downloads? Would they be able to patch the OS if a security vulnerability was discovered after the E-o-L date? I doubt it. ;)

Anyway, gotta go, have a great day, my friend! :)

Siran
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Message 1944496 - Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 17:55:57 UTC - in response to Message 1944490.  
Last modified: 15 Jul 2018, 17:57:07 UTC

Well, here's some questions for you, Rick:
- How do you know there were all those security flaws in Windows?
- How do you know they actually got patched?
- How come there are still people running Windows XP SP1, or a fully unpatched Windows 7, without any trouble in the world?

If you're behind a hardware firewall, you regularly run a good anti-malware program on your system and you don't go to the most obscure websites or click on all those flashing links, just because they flash... you're good to go. Can you remember if you ever had a security scare on your system? And was that because you accidentally clicked a wrong link or opened something that looked like a PDF file in your mail?

In all my years on the internet, that's since 1995, I've only had one Trojan with someone cashing in on my Pay Pal account. Since that time I'm using a password manager to store all my passwords, never store them in the browser anymore. I got the Trojan by allowing a script through on a website that had game cracks. The free version of the AV I ran didn't catch it, because free versions don't actively scan - or didn't at the time.
I caught it myself and was already telling Pay Pal when the email came in the guy had sent himself my 30 euros. Got that all back from PP.

My present AV package (I renewed Kaspersky earlier this year, their AV is the most unobtrusive I've found) just told me my Firefox is hopelessly outdated. I'm still at version 58, because I hate the look of the versions thereafter and can't stand the extensions. Guess what? There are still updates for the add-ons (even though they're called extensions, they aren't).

But at least this system is my system. I never install Windows Updates the moment they're shown, always wait a month or more. Have been caught by that in the past, with Windows 2000 and a nice BSOD upon installation of a 'security package'. It meant I had to reinstall everything and start anew. One learns that way. And I still decide which ones are installed, so not the numbers from earlier in this thread (which still surface now and then, last week KB2952664 was back), nor the Malicious Code whatever scan. No driver updates. Only the ones in the important window, not the optional ones.

So yeah, have fun with your Microsoft windmills there, Don Quixote. You can't blame anyone or anything else but yourself though. :)
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Message 1944574 - Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 22:00:31 UTC

Another thing to consider is target likelihood for virus and malware creators.....wouldn't they be more likely to design the current attacks to target the most used OS i.e. Window$10?

I think a system might be safer running XP or 7 provided sufficient,regularly updated firewalls and antivirus software is used and there are no ID 10 T moments on the Web for the user.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1944610 - Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 23:23:52 UTC

Just a FYI for those considering a Ryzen system on Windows 7. Someone on the HWBOT forum did a service by creating a Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 .iso installation file that includes the USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 drivers that are missing from the Windows 7 installation files and that normally preclude installing Win7 on Ryzen because there is no keyboard or mouse support for USB 3.0 connected devices.

Windows 7 x64 SP1 with integrated drivers for Zen
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Message 1944612 - Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 23:27:05 UTC

Another Win10 laptop turned up here last week, it left with Linux Mint on it and the person couldn't be happier.

Cheers.
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Message 1944646 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 2:11:55 UTC - in response to Message 1944496.  
Last modified: 16 Jul 2018, 2:14:27 UTC

"My present AV package (I renewed Kaspersky earlier this year, their AV is the most unobtrusive I've found) just told me my Firefox is hopelessly outdated. I'm still at version 58, because I hate the look of the versions thereafter and can't stand the extensions. Guess what? There are still updates for the add-ons (even though they're called extensions, they aren't). "

Ageless,

Version 58?? Heck, I'm on version 43 on my favorite machine since it's the last to support my favorite Appearance add-on. Avast doesn't like it either!
Keep up the good work and don't give in. I don't run anything by Win7 and will never go to 10. At that point I expect to switch to Linux of one sort or another.

Allen
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Message 1944715 - Posted: 16 Jul 2018, 11:16:08 UTC
Last modified: 16 Jul 2018, 11:18:31 UTC

Greetings,

None of the computers I have ever built or had have had any security scares such as Trojans stealing PayPal funds or whatever. Any issues that tried to sneak onto them were stopped by the appropriate security hardware/software.

For all its faults and all of Micro$oft's arrogance and Big Brother-ish goings on, Windows 10 is good. I have locked down as much of the telemetry and data stealing that it does that I can. Micro$oft is NOT getting anywhere near the data from me as it would if Windows 10 was running at default without the measures I have put into place. And something else that I did in settings somewhere has prevented Windows 10 from automatically downloading and installing updates and rebooting the PC. I don't remember what I did; I do know it had nothing to do with the updates settings. I think it had something to do with ISP bandwidth usage. My PC is updated, now, when *I* do it, not when Micro$oft demands it. One other thing about Windows 10 updates: I have read that it is not a good idea to prevent updates for months at a time. Some users have had major issues come up when the updates were finally installed.

I'm not trying to twist peoples arms and telling them to upgrade to Windows 10. I'm simply telling my experiences with it. If you want to be pig-headed about it (like I used to be) and not upgrade, hey, that's on you, I don't really care. 10 years from now, who's gonna care? Windows may go the way of the Dodo. Micro$oft too (I wish). ;)

So, don't say I'm Don Quixote and fighting windmills and junk like that. I'm just me. Just airing my opinions and experiences and such. That's all.

I'm done!

Have a great day! :)

Siran

[edit] BTW I'm on version 61 of Firefox. I am used to the new look and really, really love the new features I am finding in it. :) [/edit]
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Message 1945590 - Posted: 20 Jul 2018, 17:48:13 UTC - in response to Message 1944610.  
Last modified: 20 Jul 2018, 17:52:53 UTC

Just a FYI for those considering a Ryzen system on Windows 7. Someone on the HWBOT forum did a service by creating a Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 .iso installation file that includes the USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 drivers that are missing from the Windows 7 installation files and that normally preclude installing Win7 on Ryzen because there is no keyboard or mouse support for USB 3.0 connected devices.

Windows 7 x64 SP1 with integrated drivers for Zen

That's nice that someone did that. For me, I used the utility from Gigabyte to slipstream the 3.0 drivers and nvme support into the ISO for 7. Worked fine for me.

Talked my friend into getting the exact part list I got and we used the same ISO and the same utility from Gigabyte.. it worked for him, mostly. For some really weird reason.. he kept having issues with the COM Surrogate crashing during the installation of practically everything. He ended up just giving up with everything crashing trying to install driver packages and software and just went with 10, but ended up running through this guide to regain control of win10: https://fdossena.com/?p=w10debotnet/index_1803.frag

I have a spare SSD for my ryzen build and followed it on there, too, but ended up unplugging it and decided to stick with 7 since it just works without any fuss.
Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)
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Message 1946578 - Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 22:05:32 UTC

Still a good question. I wasn't having any video issues with my MS Server 20xx OS. Then apparently the PS appears to have gotten hinkey. And the suggested troubleshooting says take the PS out and put it back in. Since this is a "workstation" box I can't (yet) figure out where exactly you take it out (its enclosed in a box that apparently is not the PS).

I just (about a half hour ago) upgraded a HP Z-400? (Xeon 6 core+HT) to Windows 10 Pro. So I will have some first hand experience to contribute soon.

Tom
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Message 1946600 - Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 22:47:55 UTC - in response to Message 1944715.  

And something else that I did in settings somewhere has prevented Windows 10 from automatically downloading and installing updates and rebooting the PC. I don't remember what I did; I do know it had nothing to do with the updates settings. I think it had something to do with ISP bandwidth usage.


There is a setting in there that postpones updates if you are connected over a "metered" connection to the Internet. You set it, Windows can't tell. I expect that is what is giving you more control over the timing of your updates.

There are not only settings to reduce the amount of "customization" of Windows results but there are also places you can turn of "background" execution of both some user apps as well as system apps. All of these are really handy if you are trying to install Windows 10 on a small, slow, older PC.

Tom
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Message 1946604 - Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 23:02:12 UTC - in response to Message 1946600.  
Last modified: 27 Jul 2018, 23:03:27 UTC

And something else that I did in settings somewhere has prevented Windows 10 from automatically downloading and installing updates and rebooting the PC. I don't remember what I did; I do know it had nothing to do with the updates settings. I think it had something to do with ISP bandwidth usage.


There is a setting in there that postpones updates if you are connected over a "metered" connection to the Internet. You set it, Windows can't tell. I expect that is what is giving you more control over the timing of your updates.

That got broken/ignored with an update in the last month or so (on both my systems- one has the current Windows build, the other the previous build)..
I've got my connections set as metered, and until recently would manually check for updates, then install them.
However now, even though the connections are still set as metered, Windows is now doing Windows Update daily. Windows Defender is also doing regular updates- previously they would only occur when I ran them, or Windows Update.
Grant
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Message 1946607 - Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 23:18:19 UTC

Yes, for me, everything changed with the Fall Creators Update. On the previous build, Windows would respect my settings to delay updates. Then the FCU gave total control to Windows and ignored all my previous settings. Up till then, I could tolerate Windows mostly. I only got the FCU within the last couple of weeks. Was happy that I was on the tail end of the release distribution figuring all the early bugs in its release would have been squashed by the time it was forced on me. That release was the last straw for me. Broke my Windows and I said enough is enough. Bye.
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Message 1946613 - Posted: 27 Jul 2018, 23:32:09 UTC - in response to Message 1946607.  

Yes, for me, everything changed with the Fall Creators Update. On the previous build, Windows would respect my settings to delay updates.

It was the same for the FCU edition as well- Metered connection would stop Windows from Updating. But there has been an update in the last month or so that ignores Metered connection settings, not only for the FCU but previous builds as well.
It still honours the delays for feature updates etc. It's just the Metered connection settings are now ignored for updates.
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Message 1946619 - Posted: 28 Jul 2018, 0:11:23 UTC

14 Vista, 9 Win8/8.1 and 19 Win10 machines have now been converted here to Linux Mint for others (and that doesn't count 3 of my own that also run Linux Mint) which is pretty good for a small country village and its surrounds.

Cheers.
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Message 1946664 - Posted: 28 Jul 2018, 10:29:49 UTC - in response to Message 1946613.  

Yes, for me, everything changed with the Fall Creators Update. On the previous build, Windows would respect my settings to delay updates.

It was the same for the FCU edition as well- Metered connection would stop Windows from Updating. But there has been an update in the last month or so that ignores Metered connection settings, not only for the FCU but previous builds as well.
It still honours the delays for feature updates etc. It's just the Metered connection settings are now ignored for updates.

Greetings Grant and everyone,

I am running on 1803 the SCU edition. Up to and including this month, I have had to manually have Windows download and install the updates and the virus definitions. Windows does nothing, so far, without my interaction. We'll see if this holds true for August and the future as well. I will report, after update Tuesday, whether Windows is still obeying my "commands" or has decided to ignore what I set it to do/not do. ;)

Have a great day! :)

Siran
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Message 1946816 - Posted: 29 Jul 2018, 15:31:36 UTC

Hi all...hope my question fits here, if not, admins please feel free to move it to a more suitable forum/thread.

I have been a Windows user since 3.xx and used all the versions up to Win 7.
For my planned new computer build, I am seriously considering ditching Windows.
I have no experience whatsoever regarding this, so would like opinions on what to go for.
What I've found so far is Linux Mint, Zorin OS and Lubuntu.
What would be the "easiest" option to manage for a die-hard Win-user ?
Humans may rule the world...but bacteria run it...
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Message 1946817 - Posted: 29 Jul 2018, 15:49:47 UTC

Definitely Mint.


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Message 1946947 - Posted: 30 Jul 2018, 11:56:58 UTC

One of the "neat" things I have noticed about Win10 is that the task manager now includes a section that reports on your Gpu. Sorta like GPU-Z but with different details on what it looks at.
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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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