Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile Stargate (SA)
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Message 1926606 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 20:51:28 UTC

I've run Windows 10 Home Edition since it came out and yet to have any issues regarding having to reinstall drivers..
My opinion is that it runs fast and smooth, I had many issues with other OS but I did like Windows 7 tho it had 5x more updates required..
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Message 1926624 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 22:43:22 UTC

And sometimes meaningful reading as well.
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Message 1926630 - Posted: 25 Mar 2018, 23:56:56 UTC

I know that, just as what happened with XP, the last (nearly) universally loved Microsoft OS (Vista? Oh well lol), the ax is going to fall on Win 7 as well, and I (like many, many others) am not looking forward to this event. I remember reading about a version that really piqued my interest a year or so ago, it was called Windows 10 LTSB, and I am starting to look into finding a way to acquire it. I believe that to do it you need to go on an annual (volume?) licen$e agreement thing, which I despise, and was the reason I went with Solidworks instead of AutoCAD products for my shop. I'll probably wait a year or so till D-Day for 7 is much closer though, and let them keep ironing out the bugs in it more, but I figure it's never too early to start understanding the finer details of it, so I will be ready to go when the time comes.

It really sucks to have to pay an annual fee for the privilege of keeping my privacy, as well as avoiding having random updates rammed up down my systems.... throat at Microsofts pleasure, but they have pretty much sewn up the market for the OS required of the software that I am using now in my business, so I'm going to be forced to roll over one way or another. I guess it'll just have to be another cost of doing business, but at least I wont be in group of those whose howls I hear when MS forces out another 'update' that breaks a bunch of stuff again...

But that new interface... Ugh.

A little info I came across, if anyone is interested:

Windows 10 Without the Cruft: Windows 10 LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch), Explained

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Message 1926639 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 0:44:27 UTC - in response to Message 1926630.  

Well for $84 a year for the LTSB license, it would be worth it. Of course the tollbridge is you have to be a Enterprise customer in a organization to get it in the first place. I don't think that a single user of a sole proprietor business qualifies as a "organization" according to M$' definition.

Al, have you asked M$ whether you qualify for Enterprise classification?
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Message 1926645 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 3:05:55 UTC - in response to Message 1926639.  
Last modified: 26 Mar 2018, 3:37:00 UTC

Keith, nope, just started thinking about this a bit more seriously late last week with my RAID issues, knowing that things like that will be raising their heads more frequently as time goes on. I'll have to do a little more research, and probably contact a platinum MS reseller in my area, in another life I used to be on the periphery of those interactions, but now as it's all me, I'll have to deal with it directly. I didn't realize that they had limitations on it, I thought you basically signed the contract, paid your $'s, and you got your licenses? Or is it much more complicated than that?

*edit* found a fairly recent -early 2018- article explaining some of the in's and outs of LTSB currently:

FAQ: Windows 10 LTSB explained

Didn't see anything specific in it about who/what qualifies in MS's eyes to be afforded the ability to get this version unfortunately...

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Message 1926650 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 3:47:44 UTC - in response to Message 1926639.  

Well for $84 a year for the LTSB license, it would be worth it. Of course the tollbridge is you have to be a Enterprise customer in a organization to get it in the first place. I don't think that a single user of a sole proprietor business qualifies as a "organization" according to M$' definition.

Al, have you asked M$ whether you qualify for Enterprise classification?

Enterprise = 250+ licenses
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Message 1926655 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 4:14:46 UTC - in response to Message 1926650.  

Well for $84 a year for the LTSB license, it would be worth it. Of course the tollbridge is you have to be a Enterprise customer in a organization to get it in the first place. I don't think that a single user of a sole proprietor business qualifies as a "organization" according to M$' definition.

Al, have you asked M$ whether you qualify for Enterprise classification?

Enterprise = 250+ licenses

Sell onto close friends to make up the numbers. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1926737 - Posted: 26 Mar 2018, 14:31:35 UTC - in response to Message 1926604.  

So, please, don't call me a fanboy
I didn't. I called you a fanboi, with a link to the site explaining what that was, just in case you mistakenly thought I couldn't spell fanboy.
A fanboi is someone who is unusually attracted or devoted to a particular technology or tech company.

You went from flat out against to this is better than sex in back to back posts in this thread. No warning in between that you were neighing in the other direction, no blog that you were going to go for it. I can't wait for you to find a Linux distribution that does what you want from it, as that'll make interesting reading.

Fanboy|fanboi, potato|potahto, tomato|tomahto... It's all the same to me. I did read the definition of fanboi. I don't care what it says, it's all fanboy to me.

These are just a few of Jerry's videos I watched. He worked for Microsoft for 15 years. Jerry can be a little out there sometimes, but believe me the guy knows. He just does things for his audience.:
1st video Pay close attention to what he says about 8:56 into the video.
2nd video Pay attention to what he talks about starting about 5:38 into the video.
3rd video Just another of Jerry's videos I watched.

This is Carey Holzman. He does live YouTube builds of PCs for his customers. He's had his business for over 25 years. Carey has many, many more videos and it would take way too long for me to find exact videos. These are just about Windows 10.:
1st video Unless a customer explicitly asks for Windows 7, Carey installs Windows 10 on all current computers.
2nd video Windows 10 Creators Update.

This in no way makes me a Microsoft fanboy or fanboi. Watching these 2 YouTuber's video have change my attitude about the OPERATING SYSTEM Windows 10. I still do not like Micro$oft's tactics or what they do WITH the OS by adding the junk files ( PUPs ) and all the spying.

Siran
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Message 1927961 - Posted: 4 Apr 2018, 14:26:09 UTC

I had a total meltdown on my 7700K on Monday morning and the Win10 Pro install stick would not work, it kept aborting with a missing or corrupted file msg. I have an old Win 10 Pro system builder disk that was never used and even it didn't work. After several frustrating hours I was able to get an old Win 7 to install by disconnecting all drives SSD (2) and the HDD, leaving just the system drive and the Blu-ray drive connected. Everything went well until I after the SP 1 update. I kept getting this popup stating that the OS was outdated and would not work on your machine. After I reconnected the drives, and had a more or less stable system and activating Win 7, the Win 10 install stick still aborted. I eventually got the system builder Win 10 disk to work without supplying a key, late Monday night. I finally got the system back up to a more or less stable yesterday morning, with the event viewer is showing a lot of major errors that I don't understand and don't know how to fix. But right now I'm standing on this side of the grass, vertical, and sucking air; and the machine is up and running and crunching. God, or whoever it is who is the main spokesperson up there, I would give my left one to have Win 7 back.


I don't buy computers, I build them!!
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Message 1927977 - Posted: 4 Apr 2018, 17:04:33 UTC - in response to Message 1927961.  

Hi Cliff,

I watched a couple YouTube videos about installing Win7 on 6th, 7th and 8th generation Intel powered PCs. I have linked them below.

Video 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VTC4k6SLWY

Video 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxvNUXnN9hY

Cary Holzman has had a business building and maintaining computers for 27 years. I mentioned earlier in this thread 25 years, but I have watched recent videos where he states 27 years. This guy knows his stuff. I built a Z370 8th gen PC and did a BIOS update for the first time since I started building computers. I followed what Carey does and it was no sweat.

I'm sure that the above videos will help you get Win7 installed and stable on the current generation you have.

Good luck with this. :)

Siran
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Message 1928095 - Posted: 5 Apr 2018, 13:16:45 UTC

Isn't it wonderful we don't have to spend all our time fixing and maintaining our systems now that Win10 has saved us?

As the old Greyhound commercial used to say, "Leave the driving to us"..............

Thanks for the links Siran, I'm sure they will be very helpful to those among us unwilling to take on the 'Mark of the Beast'.

All hail Redmond.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1928610 - Posted: 7 Apr 2018, 14:09:55 UTC
Last modified: 7 Apr 2018, 14:10:10 UTC

Well, it's finally happened. I actually own a computer that is running Win 10 Pro. It came on a refurbed WS that I bought from Dell, that I was going to pull the CPU out of to use in the build for my RAID system, and sell the rest of the bits to make back my money and break even (other than the cost of the CPU), because that specific CPU pretty much can't be found right now, and is 3-5 weeks out if ordering it and I needed it right now.

Anyways, for giggles, I booted it up to see what the deal was, because honestly my only true experience with 10 was very close to the initial release date, and it didn't take me long to realize what a POS it was, and nuke the drive to start over with 7 (of course). Now that its been out in the real world for while and had a chance to bake a bit, I thought I would see what it looked like today. Pretty much my opinion is the same, there is so much sh*t on it, it's truly amazing. Especially in a business environment.

When I did the initial setup, I turned off/disabled anything and everything I could that had anything to do with this Cortina thing, and made sure I set it to be at a business, which I think disabled the store crap and having to have a ridiculous MS account on your computer. I found the program, which I learned is no longer being supported by the orig author, but has been tossed out to the community for any future improvements/incompatibilities, that makes it look like a reasonable semblance of the Win 7 desktop. I know that most of the junk is still in there, lurking below the surface, but at least it isn't shoved in my face.

With that installed, it didn't seem to be _tooo_ bad of an OS, but I do believe that there are a couple more things that I need to install on it to remove/disable much of the telemetry garbage and privacy violations that Win 10 is inherently built on. Have to google it, I know they're out there.

I do have a question though, it came with a Quadro P4000 video card installed, and of course I am thinking of installing BOINC on it, but I haven't researched if this card is supported for crunching, and if it is even a good idea to use it. The card is about 3/4" thick, and I don't recall seeing a cooling fan on it, but as the case it's in isn't all that big, I couldn't get a complete look at it. If not, it doesn't seem like a good idea to run such a taxing program on it, with what appears to be inadequate cooling. Anyone have any positive results using one of these cards without damaging it longer term?

Last comment on Win 10, I can't believe that businesses, especially those with more than say 10 or so systems, haven't been Screaming at MS to release that LTSB version for general business use, because there is so much #(*$* in that new OS that has NOTHING to do with actually running a computer in a business setting, it's actually mind blowing. If only Linux could get their poop in a group so to speak, and give MS a real run for their money.. Chicken and egg thing though, unfortunately.

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Message 1928615 - Posted: 7 Apr 2018, 14:39:06 UTC
Last modified: 7 Apr 2018, 14:40:12 UTC

The Quadro P4000 is a Pascal card and probably performs about the same as a 1060, but a bit slower than a 1070.

Cheers.
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Message 1928622 - Posted: 7 Apr 2018, 14:58:55 UTC

Greetings,

From the information I just got, the new version of Windows 10 will be released on Tuesday, April 10, 2018. This new version will have a build number of 1804, presumable. The current version is 1709 which came on in September (09) 2017 (17), hence 1709.

This version will be a complete replacement of 1709.

Siran
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Message 1928680 - Posted: 7 Apr 2018, 20:14:48 UTC - in response to Message 1928610.  
Last modified: 7 Apr 2018, 20:40:48 UTC

I do have a question though, it came with a Quadro P4000 video card installed, and of course I am thinking of installing BOINC on it, but I haven't researched if this card is supported for crunching

Why not, it is Pascal based with 1792 CUDA cores, so somewhere between a 1060 and 1070. Oooohh, and it is single slot wide with a thin blower fan. You could plug a lot onto of them into a motherboard.

[Edit] Been reading reviews that mostly pair it against similar workstation cards. Did find one comparison of TimeSpy results against a 1080 and it had about 75% of the performance of the 1080.

So I think it would do respectfully well crunching for BOINC.
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Message 1928681 - Posted: 7 Apr 2018, 20:19:46 UTC

Get the O&O ShutUp application and run that to sanitize the privacy and telemetry configurations. Also run the Group Policy Editor and set some of the parameters to that only you control what and when Windows tries to do updates and send apps and drivers you don't want automatically installed.
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Message 1928692 - Posted: 7 Apr 2018, 21:30:03 UTC

The advantage of WIn10 pro is you can defer updates for up to 3 or so months, which gives them a time to release updates for the updates if there are issues, without them affecting you.
You can also select the branch you use for updates, Current branch is what everyone gets, Current Branch for Business is pretty much the same, but delayed from the Current branch release. So if you go with the Current Branch for Business, and Delay Feature & Quality updates for 90 days, it gives them 4 or so months to get things sorted before it ends up on your system.
Grant
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Message 1928703 - Posted: 7 Apr 2018, 22:00:15 UTC
Last modified: 7 Apr 2018, 22:08:08 UTC

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I might as well try running BOINC on it, see how it likes it. While weaseling around in the settings somewhere, I did find a spot to push out at least one kind of update 365 days, and the other I believe if I remember correctly 30 days, or maybe 90, I can't remember, it was getting late last night, but I thought it said something about delaying till mid May when it will be absolutely required. Would def prefer 3 months, but actually would prefer Only security updates, and just the ones I approve, but I know we're in a brave new world now... Friggin M$

Will def get O&O ShutUp installed this afternoon, is the install pretty self explanatory, or are there good settings that aren't obvious that shouldn't be overlooked? I will have to take a look at the branch thing again, but first I think I need to grab a beer, because after I get done puttering with this one, I am going to be starting working on my RAID box, and that's going to be Linux. And you know how exciting it is for me to work with that loverly OS... :-O

I might just need a couple.

*edit* Well, that was easy! Just disabled everything other than Windows Defender, hopefully I can use my system in peace, at least till the next update that Siran just mentioned, which apparently is coming out on Tuesday.

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Message 1928798 - Posted: 8 Apr 2018, 12:40:17 UTC - in response to Message 1928703.  

*edit* Well, that was easy! Just disabled everything other than Windows Defender, hopefully I can use my system in peace, at least till the next update that Siran just mentioned, which apparently is coming out on Tuesday.

Greetings Al,

When it comes to these major upgrades of Windows 10, you may not get it until Summer. Microsoft portions out pushing the upgrades to users so their servers don't get overwhelmed. Tuesday is just the release date that they start pushing the upgrade out. I never thought that watching YouTube videos would be such a learning experience. I did my first ever BIOS flash a few weeks ago from watching some build videos. I've been building my own PCs since about 99ish. :)

Siran
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Message 1928799 - Posted: 8 Apr 2018, 12:46:31 UTC

Despite the claim that the resource overhead in 10 is less than in 7, I am very leery about switching over and taking the chance of screwing up a computer that is running very well on 7. And I very much doubt that I would see any improvement with a new OS.
I think this is one of the few areas in which I shall stay with the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' strategy.
I am not convinced that there is sufficient reason to change.

Meow7.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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