Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile Jeff Buck Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1818349 - Posted: 20 Sep 2016, 2:58:36 UTC - in response to Message 1818341.  
Last modified: 20 Sep 2016, 2:59:15 UTC

Yep, definitely Win 10.
Here's how to stop this:
Control Panel
 --> System 
     --> Advanced System settings
         --> Hardware
             --> Device Installations Settings
                 --> Automatically download Manufacturer ...
                     --> NO

Oh, by the way, check Win 7 as well. Found the same issue there. Not sure if this was part of the latest "Security Update" that MS just pushed? Don't remember this being on 7 before ...

No, not new. This came up when Windows 10 was first being released. I even posted a couple screen shots in this thread. Unfortunately, when I did try running Win10 on one of my boxes, that setting turned out to be little more than a placebo (see Messages 1707338, 1707349, 1707394 and 1708078). That was the final Win10 straw for me.

It seems to me that somebody's come up with a Registry hack since then to block the driver updates, or perhaps the Installation Settings has been fixed. In any event, Win7 still seems to be safe.
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Message 1818355 - Posted: 20 Sep 2016, 3:58:03 UTC - in response to Message 1818349.  
Last modified: 20 Sep 2016, 3:58:52 UTC

No, not new. This came up when Windows 10 was first being released. I even posted a couple screen shots in this thread. Unfortunately, when I did try running Win10 on one of my boxes, that setting turned out to be little more than a placebo (see Messages 1707338, 1707349, 1707394 and 1708078). That was the final Win10 straw for me.

It seems to me that somebody's come up with a Registry hack since then to block the driver updates, or perhaps the Installation Settings has been fixed. In any event, Win7 still seems to be safe.

Sorry, guess it got lost in all the noise :) Guess we'll see if this solves it for me. Not sure why NVidia would send out a driver through MS that doesn't support OpenCL? Seems strange ... or is BOINC behind the curve detecting it?
Hmmm...
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Message 1818371 - Posted: 20 Sep 2016, 4:38:55 UTC - in response to Message 1818355.  

I too would like to know why Microsoft is distributing OpenCL-less drivers. This is something that is not new, it's being going on since Windows 10 made its appearance.
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Message 1818401 - Posted: 20 Sep 2016, 7:44:53 UTC - in response to Message 1818371.  

I too would like to know why Microsoft is distributing OpenCL-less drivers. This is something that is not new, it's being going on since Windows 10 made its appearance.

Actually these things been happening since the WinXP days, if you allow the OS to supply driver updates. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 1818421 - Posted: 20 Sep 2016, 10:18:40 UTC - in response to Message 1818371.  

I too would like to know why Microsoft is distributing OpenCL-less drivers. This is something that is not new, it's being going on since Windows 10 made its appearance.

Somewhere in the dark depths of the ancient internet (circa 2003 or so), on a forum somewhere, I posted something that at the time, received a lot of criticism from avid MS fanboys on said forum:
Never trust MS to do a third-party's job.


The point of this back in those days was that some people were having trouble with hardware not playing nicely as it should have (these weren't crunchers.. mostly gaming rigs, or just general stability of custom builds), and it was usually tracked-down to being the generic/universal drivers via Windows Update, rather than the vendor-supplied drivers for the piece of hardware.

A more modern example of this was in 2014, a friend of mine had one of those MSI gaming laptops and had reloaded the factory win8 image and just used Windows Update to get all the updates, then the 8.1 upgrade, and then more updates, and then updated drivers. He thought everything should have gone well, but he noticed that some games had terrible performance compared to the day before (instead of 80+ FPS, more like 15, and stuttering as textures were being loaded from the SSD). He couldn't figure it out.

I asked "do you have somewhat recent drivers?" "Yeah, I just checked, they are the latest one available." "What about PhysX? Is that the latest, too?" "Uh...I'm looking, and I don't think I have that. Should I?" "If you got the latest drivers, it comes with..... wait a minute, you went through Windows Update, didn't you...." "Uh....yeah?" "There's your problem. Either go to MSI's website and get the latest drivers for that laptop from them (chipset, NIC, Wifi, bluetooth, GPU, etc), or at the very least, go to nvidia's site and grab the actual driver pack." "I don't see what difference that will make.. it's the same version that I have." "Just do it."

20 minutes later... success. The performance returned.

Getting the drivers through Windows Update only gives you the barebones minimum to make the hardware show up in Device Manager without an exclamation point or a question mark on it, and nothing more. I never deal with drivers via Windows Update. Ever. MS doesn't know what drivers are best for me, but I do.

As always, that's just my experience with it.. "your mileage may vary."
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Message 1818774 - Posted: 22 Sep 2016, 0:10:00 UTC


Disable automatic reboot after Windows Updates in Windows 10

For Win 7 - 8.1 users:
KB3184143 Update to remove Get Windows 10 offer out

This removes some of the entries on Cosmic_Ocean's list.  (The most recent list is v9, I think.)
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Message 1818789 - Posted: 22 Sep 2016, 1:54:28 UTC - in response to Message 1818774.  

For Win 7 - 8.1 users:
KB3184143 Update to remove Get Windows 10 offer out

This removes some of the entries on Cosmic_Ocean's list.  (The most recent list is v9, I think.)

v10, actually, but.. semantics. I've gone ahead and decided to include the update rollups from July and August to that list, as well (but haven't made a v11), as those update rollups contain new versions of the Update Client, which was shown in the past to have the capability/behavior of downloading all the stuff needed to push you to 10--without asking for permission to do so, nor telling you that it had done so. YMMV, better safe than sorry.

Doing more digging into this update in particular comes across this page for it and it says:

This update replaces the following previously-released software:

KB 3035583 -- Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
KB 3064683 -- Windows 8.1 OOBE modifications to reserve Windows 10
KB 3072318 -- Update for Windows 8.1 OOBE to upgrade to Windows 10
KB 3090045 -- Windows Update for reserved devices in Windows 8.1 or Windows 7 SP1
KB 3123862 -- Updated capabilities to upgrade Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
KB 3173040 -- Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1 end of free upgrade offer notification
KB 3146449 -- Updated Internet Explorer 11 capabilities to upgrade Windows 8.1 and Windows 7


So it does take care of some of the items in the list, but still leaves a lot of the list intact. I think, generally, there's still the telemetry stuff and the updates that allow for an upgrade path, but at least it seems like it's not going to nag you anymore. So that doesn't discard the whole list, but the nagging should be gone.
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Message 1819317 - Posted: 24 Sep 2016, 7:11:32 UTC - in response to Message 1818341.  

Yep, definitely Win 10.
Here's how to stop this:
Control Panel
 --> System 
     --> Advanced System settings
         --> Hardware
             --> Device Installations Settings
                 --> Automatically download Manufacturer ...
                     --> NO

Oh, by the way, check Win 7 as well. Found the same issue there. Not sure if this was part of the latest "Security Update" that MS just pushed? Don't remember this being on 7 before ...

Gets better yet. Whenb the "Anniversary Edition" update hits, it will still ignore the above and still install 369.09.
So, just a heads-up. SUre wicsh I knew a good way to express my extreme displeasure. Didn't realize that running windows mandated that I lay down with my legs spread!
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Message 1819326 - Posted: 24 Sep 2016, 11:46:09 UTC

I don't think this absolutely fits in the scope of this thread, but a gentile notice for those of you running 7 still and wondering about this month's updates (if you haven't installed them yet).

Woody is recommending to avoid all of this month's updates for the time being, until we figure out what exactly they do. He even gave a second reminder the next day about it.

I was just going through WSUS and I already knew of 3184143, and then I came across 3177467. I've done some googling and.....the only things I'm finding are just announcements that the update is available, and some Chinese results that I have no idea what they're about. There doesn't seem to be any solid info about what exactly it does.
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Message 1819389 - Posted: 24 Sep 2016, 18:07:25 UTC

Another (albeit very minor) heads-up, in case there was any doubt as to who really owns your PC. I was quite irritated to discover the MS had removed the games suite in Win10, as Solitaire is my mental "doodle pad". Thankfully, WinAero simply repackaged the games as a downloadable installer, so I was back in business in a few minutes. Didn't even lose my history.
Of course, MS deinstalled these again as part of the "Anniversary Update". Nice.
However, having saved the link, it was only a moment's work to reinstall them, at least until the next time MS decides to remove them again ...
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Message 1819442 - Posted: 24 Sep 2016, 21:21:44 UTC - in response to Message 1819389.  

Another (albeit very minor) heads-up, in case there was any doubt as to who really owns your PC. I was quite irritated to discover the MS had removed the games suite in Win10, as Solitaire is my mental "doodle pad". Thankfully, WinAero simply repackaged the games as a downloadable installer, so I was back in business in a few minutes. Didn't even lose my history.
Of course, MS deinstalled these again as part of the "Anniversary Update". Nice.
However, having saved the link, it was only a moment's work to reinstall them, at least until the next time MS decides to remove them again ...

You know what I did when I moved up to 7 on my main machine a few years after everyone else already had?

I loaded up a XP VM and grabbed sol.exe, freecell.exe, and cards.dll and put them in my installed-games folder, and made shortcuts to the two EXEs. The older versions of the basic games are better than the modern ones.

Just a thought for you, if you wanted to get around that problem once and for all.
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Message 1819767 - Posted: 25 Sep 2016, 22:13:35 UTC - in response to Message 1819317.  

Yep, definitely Win 10.
Here's how to stop this:
Control Panel
 --> System 
     --> Advanced System settings
         --> Hardware
             --> Device Installations Settings
                 --> Automatically download Manufacturer ...
                     --> NO

Oh, by the way, check Win 7 as well. Found the same issue there. Not sure if this was part of the latest "Security Update" that MS just pushed? Don't remember this being on 7 before ...

Gets better yet. When the "Anniversary Edition" update hits, it will still ignore the above and still install 369.09.
So, just a heads-up.

To clarify, the Anniversary Update will set the NO above back to YES.
Thanks, Redmond. May an errant satellite strike your neighborhood ...
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Message 1819808 - Posted: 26 Sep 2016, 1:16:30 UTC - in response to Message 1819767.  


Control Panel
 --> System 
     --> Advanced System settings
         --> Hardware
             --> Device Installations Settings
                 --> Automatically download Manufacturer ...
                     --> NO


Both of my main crunchers are down since the last WIN10 update. From my observations, the above settings only modify the behavior of the device manager. So it will stop the system detecting out of date or missing drivers and loading the latest, but it doesn't stop Windows Update, which will update non-MS software, including drivers.
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Message 1819818 - Posted: 26 Sep 2016, 2:49:24 UTC - in response to Message 1819808.  
Last modified: 26 Sep 2016, 2:51:49 UTC


Control Panel
 --> System 
     --> Advanced System settings
         --> Hardware
             --> Device Installations Settings
                 --> Automatically download Manufacturer ...
                     --> NO


Both of my main crunchers are down since the last WIN10 update. From my observations, the above settings only modify the behavior of the device manager. So it will stop the system detecting out of date or missing drivers and loading the latest, but it doesn't stop Windows Update, which will update non-MS software, including drivers.

I did open a ticket with both MS and NVidia on this. Fat lot of good it will probably do ...
But you should be able to do a reinstall of the driver you were previously using and be back up. I can verify that 372.90 for Win10x64 does work properly (NVidia asked me to test it), so that would be later than the bogus 369.09 that was causing the issue and perhaps prevent a repetition of this.
Easy to tell if this is the problem. If you check the Your Computers screen at SETI, and it shows 369.09 under GPUs and no mention of OpenCL installed, get the 372.90 and install it.
In your case though, it looks like you're exclusively running AMD, not NVidia, so not much I was talking about applies.
Sorry you're down ...
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Message 1819984 - Posted: 26 Sep 2016, 21:27:13 UTC - in response to Message 1819818.  

I did open a ticket with both MS and NVidia on this. Fat lot of good it will probably do ...

Text of the update I sent NVidia today regarding this issue. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. Watch the Your Computers tab at SETI, if you're on Win 10. If you also experience this issue, as I have on 4 PCs now, I would like to hear from you. I know there are some folks here who have "ins" at NVidia. Perhaps you can help escalate this?
Jim ...
=== Update to Ticket 160924-000022 ===
I had an additional machine which had not yet received the Anniversary Update. So I placed this machine, named HP-Z600, on 372.90, verified proper installation of OpenCL and allowed the machine to continue. Overnight, the Anniversary updated was pushed. When it installed, it _downgraded_ the machine from 372.90 to 369.09, which again loaded without OpenCL support.
So, even if one is proactive in keeping the machine updated, the MS push will mess this up. Attached are 3 added files: 1) HPZ600_msinfo.txt, an msinfo export before the Anniversary Update, 2) HPZ600b_msinfo.txt, an msinfo export from after the update, and 3) HPZ600_BOINC_info.txt, a listing from the BOINC servers of status as detected by the BOINC Client when reporting to the servers located at UC Berkeley.
I sincerely hope this issue will receive the attention it deserves.
====
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Message 1820092 - Posted: 27 Sep 2016, 3:17:04 UTC - in response to Message 1819984.  

I was proactive on the anniversary update. I downloaded the update to a thumb drive and updated a total of 9 computers. Before letting BOINC to start, I did clean install of my nvidia drivers first.
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Message 1820104 - Posted: 27 Sep 2016, 4:04:46 UTC

If MS Update is _downgrading_ drivers, there's a definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. Especially if there actually is no way to prevent them for doing so.
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Message 1820125 - Posted: 27 Sep 2016, 5:03:45 UTC

MS have been using their "update" path to distribute crippled (downgraded) drivers for a good many years. This mainly affects graphics drivers, where MS are only interested in having functionality available that they need for their bloated Office offerings, for example they have not distributed CUDA with their builds of the Nvidia drivers.
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Message 1820134 - Posted: 27 Sep 2016, 5:55:25 UTC
Last modified: 27 Sep 2016, 5:56:05 UTC

I have a Windows 10 Home edition updated from 8 and 8.1 on a HP PC. When I installed on it a Geforce GTX 750 OC to run both SETI@home and Einstein@home GPU tasks, I installed a nVidia driver using Geforce Experience and I regularly update it. MS never overwrote my driver in its updates.
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Message 1820150 - Posted: 27 Sep 2016, 8:53:01 UTC - in response to Message 1820125.  

MS have been using their "update" path to distribute crippled (downgraded) drivers for a good many years. This mainly affects graphics drivers, where MS are only interested in having functionality available that they need for their bloated Office offerings, for example they have not distributed CUDA with their builds of the Nvidia drivers.

Gotta love it. Too tired to rant about it...
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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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