Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile Jord
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Message 1786744 - Posted: 11 May 2016, 15:30:37 UTC - in response to Message 1786651.  

Only the BIG update for IE11 concerns me, because it bundles a lot of other things with it... :?

You should update it though, as the patch fixes 3 zero-day vulnerabilities that are actively being attacked at this moment. So especially when you use IE, patch it.

But really, it seems I cannot point it out enough, if you're afraid for Win10 update stuff being in this update (which there isn't any as far as I can see, only the vulnerabilities are patched), add DisableOSUpgrade = 1 to HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate as described here. That does what it says on the tin: it blocks updates to Windows 10.
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Message 1786760 - Posted: 11 May 2016, 16:11:11 UTC - in response to Message 1786744.  

You should update it though, as the patch fixes 3 zero-day vulnerabilities that are actively being attacked at this moment. So especially when you use IE, patch it.

But really, it seems I cannot point it out enough, if you're afraid for Win10 update stuff being in this update (which there isn't any as far as I can see, only the vulnerabilities are patched), add DisableOSUpgrade = 1 to HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate as described here. That does what it says on the tin: it blocks updates to Windows 10.

You are right and i already installed all updates from yesterday, including the IE patch, although i don't use it (IE).

The settings you describe are also already set - i use GWX control panel btw. -, so Win 10 will not get on my computers. What i'm more concerned of are the lot of updates to Win 7 and 8(.1) to add telemetry and other malware to existing systems, that nearly put them on par with Win 10, from the spying-eye-point-of-view. I want to keep my systems as clear as possible from prying - that's all! ;)
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1786826 - Posted: 11 May 2016, 21:21:17 UTC - in response to Message 1786744.  

But really, it seems I cannot point it out enough, if you're afraid for Win10 update stuff being in this update (which there isn't any as far as I can see, only the vulnerabilities are patched), add DisableOSUpgrade = 1 to HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate as described here. That does what it says on the tin: it blocks updates to Windows 10.

Minor nuance in the wording.. that registry entry is supposed to prevent the installation of 10 from happening, but it will do absolutely nothing to prevent/block you from getting the nagware updates, nor all the telemetry and datamining. If you do that entry and let all the updates through, you'll get every single one of them, all the nagware telling you to upgrade, and it will even still download the 2-7gb of the 10 install in the background.

I'm also very skeptical of only relying on that single registry entry by itself anyway. MS has proven more than once in the past 12 months that it can change registry entries with other updates at any time, so you can have it set to prevent the installation of 10, but then an update comes along that resets that key and suddenly.. you'll have 10 installed.

My mother-in-law's computer ran through that scenario. I kept telling her to just let me handle the updates, but she got tired of the tray notification being there that said "updates are available," so she'd just click through and install everything. I'd have to spend an hour cleaning that up, and I found out that she let the installation of 10 itself happen, too, and it took 4 hours and decided at 99% that something failed, so it spent 3 hours rolling-back and immediately came up again and tried cramming 10 down your throat again.

So I cleaned up all the unwanted updates, purged that $BT.WINDOWS folder, added the DisableOSUpgrade key.. came back a week later, and all the bad updates were back, the $BT.WINDOWS folder was there.. and there was another failed attempt at installing 10.

So I purged all the bad ones.. and just turned updates off entirely. Problem solved.
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Message 1786827 - Posted: 11 May 2016, 21:28:52 UTC - in response to Message 1786651.  

...and again a bunch of updates, most seem harmless/useful.

Only the BIG update for IE11 concerns me, because it bundles a lot of other things with it... :?

Based on what I'm seeing in WSUS for available updates, it all looks harmless this time around, in my opinion.

"Update for Windows 7 (KB3153731)" - May 2016 DST update for Azerbaijan, Chile, Haiti, and Morocco
"Security update for IE 11 (KB3154070)" - Looks to be harmless (take note of the "more information" section where it lists the non-critical updates that are included within it. You can explore them individually from there, as well as exploring the security bulletin for the important fixes.)

The rest of the updates appear to be security updates as far as I can tell.
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Message 1786828 - Posted: 11 May 2016, 21:31:07 UTC - in response to Message 1786826.  

So I purged all the bad ones.. and just turned updates off entirely. Problem solved.

No problems here.

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Message 1786853 - Posted: 11 May 2016, 23:30:40 UTC - in response to Message 1786826.  

Minor nuance in the wording.. that registry entry is supposed to prevent the installation of 10 from happening, but it will do absolutely nothing to prevent/block you from getting the nagware updates

I have a couple of them on my system and have yet to see any mention of Windows 10, or that it downloads the software. Just as long as you don't allow 3035583 (GWX), you're rather safe.

nor all the telemetry and datamining.

No, but I didn't say that it did. The telemetry etc. is a separate thing from the Windows 10 installation.

If you do that entry and let all the updates through, you'll get every single one of them, all the nagware telling you to upgrade, and it will even still download the 2-7gb of the 10 install in the background.

Then just follow the instructions...

I'm also very skeptical of only relying on that single registry entry by itself anyway.

This is the setting that MS tells company admins to use if they do not want to upgrade to 10. MS would be out of their mind to reset this entry, or ignore it, as then they'll be liable to lawsuits they don't want.

See https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351

The Windows 10 upgrade is automatically blocked (that is, no further action is required) on computers or other devices in the following scenarios:

* The computer or device is serviced through WSUS and has not had update 3035583 applied.

and

Group Policy
Microsoft has released new updates to enable you to block upgrades to Windows 10 through Windows Update. These updates install a new Group Policy Setting. Computers that have this Group Policy Setting enabled will never detect, download, or install an upgrade to the latest version of Windows.

To block the upgrade to Windows 10 through Windows Update, specify the following registry value:

Subkey: HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate
DWORD value: DisableOSUpgrade = 1

and

For non-Enterprise versions of Windows, the notification icon can be suppressed through the Windows registry. To do this, set the following registry value:

Subkey: HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx
DWORD value: DisableGwx = 1

Plenty of people who use these settings and have no problems with (m)any of the Windows updates. The only thing happening now is the severe slowdown of the updates coming in. But that'll probably clear after July 29th as well. And then MS will release a new update which will remove GWX (3035583) from your system.
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Message 1786863 - Posted: 12 May 2016, 0:15:36 UTC - in response to Message 1786853.  
Last modified: 12 May 2016, 0:15:59 UTC


Plenty of people who use these settings and have no problems with (m)any of the Windows updates. The only thing happening now is the severe slowdown of the updates coming in. But that'll probably clear after July 29th as well. And then MS will release a new update which will remove GWX (3035583) from your system.


Or they will extend the deadline hoping to catch a few more. :)
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Message 1787106 - Posted: 12 May 2016, 21:17:34 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2016, 21:19:52 UTC

Here are some articles to complement Jord's most recent post. Each has screen prints.

This preference (DisableOSUpgrade) prevents the upgrade to Windows 10

How to block Windows 10 upgrades on your business network (and at home, too)

This is the most intensive article:
How to disable the “Get Windows 10” icon shown in the notification area (tray)?

I've installed both Registry edits mentioned in the MS kb article, plus GWX Control Panel Monitor, and have experienced no issues since (3+ months).
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Message 1787972 - Posted: 16 May 2016, 20:36:23 UTC

From the 'Some Things Never Change' file

Microsoft's Windows 10 upgrades are getting even more sneaky-pushy

Excerpt:
"Instead of simply giving you the option to install its latest operating system (or not), Microsoft now automatically schedules a date and time to update your PC to Windows 10. If you don't want the software update or if you want to change the installation date, you have to take deliberate action: manually click a link in the message, then choose to reschedule it or cancel it altogether."
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Message 1788343 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 8:19:53 UTC

Hang on to your hard dives... Micro$haft attempts to force Window$ 10 on your PC even if you do not want it.

Microsoft makes final, aggressive Windows 10 upgrade push

Wraps up 'phased approach' as it switches upgrade to Recommended; interprets closing the notification as upgrade approval

Microsoft has launched the final push in its nine-and-a-half-month upgrade offensive against consumers and businesses running Windows 7 and Windows 8.1.

Last week, Microsoft switched the automatically-offered Windows 10 upgrade to a "Recommended" download that in turn scheduled the upgrade process unless the user interfered.

"As we shared in October, Windows 10 will be offered as a 'Recommended' update for Windows 7 and 8.1 customers whose Windows Update settings are configured to accept 'Recommended' updates," a Microsoft spokesman said Friday in an email reply to questions.

Those questions were spurred by reports from Computerworld readers, who said that they'd again been offered an upgrade after months of either ignoring the campaign or dodging the transmutation of their PCs from Windows 7 or 8.1 to 10.

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Message 1788429 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 13:36:03 UTC

Greetings,

Haven't I been saying this all along; that Micro$oft will "disable" the red "X" to trick users into upgrading to Window$ 10? Well, they took it a step further by programing the red "X" in Window$ Update to be just another "OK" button:

According to both the latest and the previous versions of the support document, the upgrade and its scheduled implementation is approved when the user either clicks the "OK" button or the "X" in the upper right corner of the notification.

"If you click on OK or on the red 'X', you're all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do," the document stated.

The "X" Microsoft mentioned is one way to close a window in Windows.

But Microsoft's interpretation of clicking the X is contrary to decades of practice in windowed user interfaces (UIs) and normal user expectations: To users, shutting a window by clicking the X tells the OS to remove the notification or application frame without expressing an opinion, selecting an option or calling up an operation.

Instead, Microsoft equates closing the window with approving the scheduled upgrade.

Microsoft has applied some unusual stratagems in its efforts to get customers to upgrade to Windows 10, but this behavior is among its most aggressive simply because it is deceptive in the context of normal Windows UI behavior.

Micro$oft CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be trusted where our PCs are concerned!

What's next? The only other option I know to close a window is to use Task Manager. Will Micro$oft sabotage it next? Only time will tell. But then, there's only just over 2 months left for the "free" upgrade.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
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Message 1788442 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 14:47:32 UTC

That's just another cause, i'm so thankful, this thread and the "updates to avoid" list exists. I never got in touch with anything related to Win 10 on my PCs (knocks on wood!) and hope to stay on 7 (8.1) as long as it lasts.

BTW: On Win 8.1 there was an old but still unwelcome fellow in new disguise in the update list again, so beware! ;)
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1788448 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 15:17:15 UTC

Truly, the Biblical Apocalypse is upon us, and the number of the 'Beast' is not 666......it is 10.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
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Message 1788457 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 16:04:39 UTC
Last modified: 18 May 2016, 16:13:25 UTC

Microsoft reveals Convenience roll-up intention for Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 (as well as Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1, Windows Server 2012 and Windows Server 2012 R2).

Available only through the Microsoft Update Catalog - which till date still requires a working version of Internet Explorer, due to the requirement of ActiveX - it allows you to download all updates until April 2016 to be downloaded in one package. Each month following a new roll-up will be available with all the updates available till then.

These don't include all the Windows 10 nagware and telemetry updates. It'll cut your "waiting for the updates to show up and download" time down to the wait time for the package to download, which is dependent on your download speed.

We are making this change – shifting to rollup updates, to improve the reliability and quality of our updates.

These fixes will be available through Windows Update, WSUS, and SCCM as well as the Microsoft Update catalog. We hope this monthly rollup update simplifies your process of keeping Windows 7, and 8.1 up-to-date.


Edit: AskVG explains how to use the convenience roll-up and what the requirements are. They also have direct download links to the updates, without you requiring IE with ActiveX. They also show a list of the updates included in the roll-up, so you can check that it truly doesn't contain all the updates for GWX and telemetry.
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Message 1788473 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 16:33:49 UTC - in response to Message 1788457.  

-[ snip ]-

These don't include all the Windows 10 nagware and telemetry updates. It'll cut your "waiting for the updates to show up and download" time down to the wait time for the package to download, which is dependent on your download speed.

We are making this change – shifting to rollup updates, to improve the reliability and quality of our updates.

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Jord,

With all the underhanded crap Micro$oft has been doing to get Window$ 10 shoved down our throats, how can we trust this to be legit? I do not trust Micro$oft.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
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Message 1788474 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 16:43:57 UTC - in response to Message 1788473.  

-[ snip ]-

These don't include all the Windows 10 nagware and telemetry updates. It'll cut your "waiting for the updates to show up and download" time down to the wait time for the package to download, which is dependent on your download speed.

We are making this change – shifting to rollup updates, to improve the reliability and quality of our updates.

-[ snip ]-

Greetings Jord,

With all the underhanded crap Micro$oft has been doing to get Window$ 10 shoved down our throats, how can we trust this to be legit? I do not trust Micro$oft.

Keep on BOINCing...! :)


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Message 1788476 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 16:47:03 UTC - in response to Message 1788473.  
Last modified: 18 May 2016, 16:48:52 UTC

...how can we trust this to be legit?

{Shrug}

Then don't and don't update ever again if you feel you cannot trust MS, continue on with a crap broken Windows, and find that sites will start to actively block your computer because it cannot be trusted. Or just walk away and go the Linux tour.

These roll-up updates aren't necessarily for the users who update each Tuesday, but are more for those that clean install/reinstall/repair install their Windows 7 and and 8.1 and then have to sit through the multi-hour/multi-day ordeal of updating.

Look at the list of updates available in the present roll-up, you'll find it may only hold one update that adds telemetry for 7 and 8.1, but at the same time this is also an update for this part of the User Account Control (UAC) that may hang the whole computer.

It also contains the update for BitLocker can't encrypt drives because of service crashes in svchost.exe process in Windows 7 or Windows Server 2008 R2, which has a known issue:
Known issues in this update:
After you install update 3133977 on a Windows 7 x64-based system that includes an ASUS-based main board, the system does not start, and it generates a Secure Boot error on the ASUS BIOS screen. This problem occurs because ASUS allowed the main board to enable the Secure Boot process even though Windows 7 does not support this feature.


Having sat through a 4 day ordeal of updating Windows after repair installing it, I think it's a neat service. One I'll use on my new repair install to be done soon (got self-inflicted registry corruption that heavily impairs my right-click context menu and can only be fixed by reinstalling Windows).
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Message 1788482 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 17:14:36 UTC - in response to Message 1788474.  


Amen. Sadly. Less than 4 years, and 7 will be 'dead'. Choosing to not think about it at the moment, but will eventually have to plan for this occasion. I'm sure by that point, W10 will be in the rear view mirror and what, W11 will be out? I dunno, maybe Linux, though my experiences with it have been less that optimal up to now. Too much else to think about right now, will try to worry about it when the time draws nearer.

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Message 1788485 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 17:27:37 UTC - in response to Message 1788482.  


Amen. Sadly. Less than 4 years, and 7 will be 'dead'. Choosing to not think about it at the moment, but will eventually have to plan for this occasion. I'm sure by that point, W10 will be in the rear view mirror and what, W11 will be out? I dunno, maybe Linux, though my experiences with it have been less that optimal up to now. Too much else to think about right now, will try to worry about it when the time draws nearer.

No at some point in time Windows 10 will change to something like "Windows OS". Their plan is to go with a constantly updating environment where users don't have to worry about versions. Much like how facebook or ebay operate. When those sites update the users don't normally notice unless there is a change in the layout.
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Message 1788518 - Posted: 18 May 2016, 19:30:10 UTC - in response to Message 1788485.  

I can't imagine how businesses are going to accept that with business critical apps running, and then MS lobs an "update" over the wall, blowing up said program without getting permission. I think that will be a huge hulking fly in that ointment for them. I used to work in IT years ago, and if they had tried to pull something like that, with no regression/compatibility testing, it would have been war. lol

So, as the the ancient Chinese saying/curse goes: May you live in interesting times. And apparently, we do...

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