It is a very simple interface to learn, especially if you've used a smartphone. Which is probably M$'s intention, to unify it's O$ across platforms much as Apple and the Iphone/Mac relationship.

A VERY different take however on the privacy portion of the comparison.

80% of those people I deal with have Android phones, if they have a mobile phone at all, and then it's mostly a dumb 1 and about 5% is up equally divided between Apple & M$.

Maybe it's just a cultural thing DG. ;-)

Cheers.

My hardware here will stay Win7 until at least 2021 (unless something drastic happens).

It is a very simple interface to learn, especially if you've used a smartphone.

Ignoring the touchy feeley crap, I was at least relieved to see that I could still find myself around. Not that much of a jump from 7.
I've got a new cruncher coming in next week (damn eBay) to build, and tempted to go ahead and build it on 10 just to see how things go. Or maybe it's time to boot the two Xeons up to 10 and leave the new box on 7. Dunno ...

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This is all very frustrating to me, because I want to use 10, because of all the cool stuff it's got.

But I also want some actual privacy, and I want control over MY machine. 7 lets me pick and choose which updates I do and don't get, or I can just let it be automatic. That's called "choices". I don't even mind if a lot of this stuff is automatic by default, as long as you can opt-out of being automatic and change it to what you want.

I really do want to use 10... but not until (I know, it will never happen) it can be trusted and it lets us power users have control once again.

---

Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)

This is all very frustrating to me, because I want to use 10, because of all the cool stuff it's got.

But I also want some actual privacy, and I want control over MY machine. ...

I really do want to use 10... but not until (I know, it will never happen) it can be trusted and it lets us power users have control once again.

Sounds like you want to give, dare I suggest it... A Linux distro a look-see? There are LOTs of beautifully cool stuff in there.

OK, so some of the application names will be different, but the desktops are similarly "point and click" and you can do things. And if you are interested, you can see exactly how those things work. Or if not interested, they just work anyhow.


A recent review that should be a good teaser for Windows users is for:

A review of Zorin OS 11 Core: "Zorin OS is an Ubuntu-based distribution designed to provide a familiar desktop experience to Windows users..."

And Windows-style, you can even buy it! ;-)


More generally, take a look on the summaries on:

Top Ten Distributions

For long-term Windows users, I usually suggest choosing the "KDE" desktop with such as Linux Mint, Mageia, or PCLinuxOS.


As always, the first hardest part is for how to test or install your choice.

If you can pass that test, or have a friend to do that for you, then the rest gets progressively easier.


What quote is it about "given the mind of a child you have in your hands the mind of the adult"?...

Does learning Microsoft in high school mean you must forever use Microsoft for your life?


Just some ideas!

IT is what we make it...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I've played around with various distros over the years. They're good for what they are, but for me.. it's not an ideal daily driver.

10 could be awesome.. if they'd quit datamining and let us have control back. That's just wishful thinking though, unfortunately.

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Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)

Updates are as dead a a doornail here.
Turned off, kaputsky.

They cannot get through the door.

That's not very secure and totally unnecessary.

Edit the registry,
At HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate,
Add DWORD value DisableOSUpgrade, with value 1.

Or if you don't want to hand-edit the registry, follow what's written at http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/08/disableosupgrade-prevents-the-upgrade-to-windows-10/.

That way you can easily allow all Windows 7 security updates, without getting any Windows 10 updates in. Then uncheck "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates" in Windows Updates settings.

I know, as I've just the past days reinstalled Windows 7 and been updating it a lot. Despite the 27 reboots I had to endure, GWX Control Panel found no GWX updates on my system afterwards.

Yes, you still have to watch out with the optional updates, as there might be GWX updates in there, but with this registry key there are none in the important updates.

And due to a (self-inflicted) partially corrupted registry I can go reinstall Windows 7 this week again. Having no context handler (right-click menu) entries is quite annoying. This time I'll probably use the System Update Readiness tool for all those updates.

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Windows 10: How to protect yourself if given one as a "Gift?"

There have been lists and lists about the M$ KB files to watch out for, but has anyone yet compiled a list of WHAT to do if you're given one as a gift, or want it for some other reason, but NOT with all the bad stuff it comes with?

Assume you get a Win 10 box as a "gift," likely from someone out to harm you, :) WHAT do you DO after first turning it on? What are all the things you should disable?

I would assume you should NOT allow it to connect to the net, lest you get more junk rammed down your throat? You may have to switch off your home wi-fi prior to booting the Win 10 box? It may start off downloading w/o you knowing? I don't know; I'm just asking.

How do you deal with this? Can anyone document, step by step, WHAT to do with a new Win 10 box?

Thank you,

---

River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"

I am not budging.
7 is stable as heck here and until something hacks it that I cannot manage a work around, no updates from MS ever again.

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Windows 10: How to protect yourself if given one...

... likely from someone out to harm you, :) WHAT do you DO after first turning it on? What are all the things you should disable?

I would assume you should NOT allow it to connect to the net, ...

How do you deal with this? Can anyone document, step by step, WHAT to do with a new Win 10 box?

If you are given a computer with unknown or untrusted software on it, the most important step is the step BEFORE you turn it on...

Physically remove the disk, and erase it using a known good machine using an external connection directly to the removed disk.

If you are particularly paranoid or suspicious, with the disk removed remotely apply power whilst the device is inside a concrete reinforced Faraday cage with remote viewing by video camera to confirm nothing untoward happens and that the device does not complete a boot up as can be expected.

Repeat with the erased disk in place to again confirm still no boot up.


At that point, format the disk and install software that you yourself can trust.

(For a recent PC/laptop, you may need to do battle with the UEFI 'bios'. Best check that detail for whatever manufacturer.)


Good luck,
Martin

ps: "Erase" means using some utility that deliberately writes over every sector of the disk, sector by sector. And confirms that has been done. One good way is to do a "destructive" write disk surface check.

pps: Note that 'silly nefarious things' can be done to the firmware on disk drives and motherboard hardware and even to the BIOS itself... But that is for another thread ;-)

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

7 is not dead mate.
I am using it as we speak.

Updates are as dead a a doornail here.
Turned off, kaputsky.

They cannot get through the door.

And anything else that happens to be a result of that has not happened just yet.

And is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Just call me 'stable with 7'.

yep updates off , disabled , antivirus on thou ...as he says with fingers crossed ....up ----- M$!

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If you are given a computer with unknown or untrusted software on it, the most important step is the step BEFORE you turn it on...

Physically remove the disk, and erase it using a known good machine using an external connection directly to the removed disk.

Not sufficient. You just copied the virus to the good machine. The O/S will read the disk first to load any special driver, such as virus driver, before you can write to it.

Correct, is to remove the platters from the drive and degauss. Swap all proms for new, if you trust the source. After reassembling the drive, do manufacturer format that writes the sector marks, etc. Then you can do a low level format to install partition map, drivers, boot sector, etc. Now install O/S and be happy. (It's easier to toss the drive and put in a new one.)

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If you are given a computer with unknown or untrusted software on it, the most important step is the step BEFORE you turn it on...

Physically remove the disk, and erase it using a known good machine using an external connection directly to the removed disk.

Not sufficient. You just copied the virus to the good machine. The O/S will read the disk first to load any special driver, such as virus driver, before you can write to it.

Correct, is to remove the platters from the drive and degauss. Swap all proms for new, if you trust the source. After reassembling the drive, do manufacturer format that writes the sector marks, etc. Then you can do a low level format to install partition map, drivers, boot sector, etc. Now install O/S and be happy. (It's easier to toss the drive and put in a new one.)

Oh gee whillikers you guys! You and Martin should win 'Joker of the Year' awards. So funny! The 'Faraday Cage' bit caused me to ROFL. <giggles>

Seriously, guys? Say you buy a Win 10 machine becuz you believe in self-flagellation, or are given one as a gift. Other than throwing it in the trash, ripping out the hard drive, or spraying it with bug spray, WHAT are reasonable things to do when you first turn it on? Surely there are settings you should change? Do you allow it to access the net before you take certain steps? This is a REAL situation that can happen and I think others, besides me, would be interested in knowing HOW to 'set it up?' I sure would. :)

---

River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"

Do you allow it to access the net before you take certain steps? This is a REAL situation that can happen and I think others, besides me, would be interested in knowing HOW to 'set it up?' I sure would. :)

The sad truth(as currently understood)is that if you have Window$ 10 installed on your device, there is no way to prevent the 'spy' features. On first boot, by accepting the EULA, you have ceded the ownership of your files(and your private life)to M$.

Furthermore, as has been posted previously, manufacturers of PC's and their components have joined with M$ in an agreement to make Win10 the platform for which all future development will be centered around. The most disturbing part about this agreement to me is the CPU manufacturer's plans to make all future bios upgrades to only be done through Win10, even if you are running a Linux OS.

Being a Conservative and a Rational Anarchist, it makes me nauseous to suggest the only 'cure' for this privacy piracy is through Government intervention............wow, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth......":(<

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Windows 10: How to protect yourself if given one as a "Gift?"

My new laptop got started for the first time with a linux mint disc in the drive.

As for older unknown or dodgy machines, if there is no wanted data on them they would get started up with a bootable cd of Partition Magic. problem solved.

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Kevin

Windows 10: How to protect yourself if given one as a "Gift?"

There have been lists and lists about the M$ KB files to watch out for, but has anyone yet compiled a list of WHAT to do if you're given one as a gift, or want it for some other reason, but NOT with all the bad stuff it comes with?

Assume you get a Win 10 box as a "gift," likely from someone out to harm you, :) WHAT do you DO after first turning it on? What are all the things you should disable?

I would assume you should NOT allow it to connect to the net, lest you get more junk rammed down your throat? You may have to switch off your home wi-fi prior to booting the Win 10 box? It may start off downloading w/o you knowing? I don't know; I'm just asking.

How do you deal with this? Can anyone document, step by step, WHAT to do with a new Win 10 box?

Initially, don't connect it to the web. Boot it in safe mode and run an AV, then an anti-malware scan from a thumb drive. Use a well known AV brand (I also use a secondary AV --> ClamWin)

Then you'll need to spend time for research.
Here are some articles that I've come across. Some may have been posted in these fora previously.

> Windows 10 PC’s phone home even after privacy hardening
> How to disable Windows Feedback on Windows 10
> Comparison of Windows 10 Privacy tools --- *This will most benefit you

> Want to protect your privacy in Windows 10? Get this free tool.
> Windows 10 telemetry secrets: Where, when, and why Microsoft collects your data
--- excerpt from the section "Where is telemetry data stored?"
"On a Windows 10 PC, telemetry data is stored in encrypted files in the hidden %ProgramData%\Microsoft\Diagnosis folder. The files and folders in this location are not accessible to normal users and have permissions that make it difficult to snoop in them. Even if you could look into the contents of those files, there's nothing to see, because the data files are encrypted locally."

> How to block Windows 10 upgrades on your business network (and at home, too)
> How to stop Windows 10 "spying" on you
--- from the author
"It's a one-click solution (along with an undo button in case things don't go as you planned) from a known developer that's been in the privacy business since 2000. And there's no adware! I've tested this tool on a number of systems and it seems to do what it says it does on the tin, and nothing more."

> Windows 10 Privacy: Step by step --- *Provides actual Win10 screen prints on how to 'lockdown' Win10

These are just a few from those that I've spotted.

Do you allow it to access the net before you take certain steps? This is a REAL situation that can happen and I think others, besides me, would be interested in knowing HOW to 'set it up?' I sure would. :)

The sad truth(as currently understood)is that if you have Window$ 10 installed on your device, there is no way to prevent the 'spy' features. On first boot, by accepting the EULA, you have ceded the ownership of your files(and your private life)to M$.

Furthermore, as has been posted previously, manufacturers of PC's and their components have joined with M$ in an agreement to make Win10 the platform for which all future development will be centered around. The most disturbing part about this agreement to me is the CPU manufacturer's plans to make all future bios upgrades to only be done through Win10, even if you are running a Linux OS.

Being a Conservative and a Rational Anarchist, it makes me nauseous to suggest the only 'cure' for this privacy piracy is through Government intervention............wow, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth......":(<

Oh gosh, I thought maybe a new Win 10 machine would give you the opportunity to choose to do a "default" first time setup of the install, which includes all the junk, OR would give you the opportunity to do a "custom" first time setup of the install?" I guess not, huh? Oh poop!

If you buy a PC at a store like 'Best Buy' you have to accept the fact that ALL choices have been made for YOU by the person who installed the OS? The same if you buy on-line, like from a place like 'Tiger Direct.' The choices they make are the ones desired by M$ and YOU are stuck.

I guess the only way you get to do a "custom install" to eliminate the junk is to buy a new machine w/o an OS on it. Then, if you really want Win 10, perhaps you're given the opportunity at THAT time to choose to do a "custom" install? Then, after that, you must not allow M$ to make any up-dates. A sad thing.

What you mention, i.e., "manufacturers of PC's and their components have joined with M$ in an agreement to make Win10 the platform for which all future development will be centered around." This is AWFUL. Our choices are being taken away! Does that mean that Linux and Apple PC's will also be taken over by M$? Geez.

Thank you and the other gentlemen here for your thoughts and kind help! :)

---

River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"

Speaking of all the phone home spy stuff, does anyone have a list of the IP's and/or domain names that are used for the phone home? Thinking the simple answer is to block those with a hardware firewall.

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Oh gee whillikers you guys! You and Martin should win 'Joker of the Year' awards. So funny! The 'Faraday Cage' bit caused me to ROFL. <giggles>

Want anyone who handles your credit card, social security numbers, tax returns, health records ... to not think like that?

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Speaking of all the phone home spy stuff, does anyone have a list of the IP's and/or domain names that are used for the phone home? Thinking the simple answer is to block those with a hardware firewall.

I think that somebody else brought that up but the problem is that you have NO control over updates so anytime M$ wants they can send out an update that tells your computer to use different IP's or domains to keep on STEALING your private info and data.

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ME AND MY BOY LOOKING FOR ET

Speaking of all the phone home spy stuff, does anyone have a list of the IP's and/or domain names that are used for the phone home? Thinking the simple answer is to block those with a hardware firewall.

I think that somebody else brought that up but the problem is that you have NO control over updates so anytime M$ wants they can send out an update that tells your computer to use different IP's or domains to keep on STEALING your private info and data.

They do change regularly, probably when it's not 'phoning home' like a good clone. I installed SpyBot AntiBeacon several months ago and about once a week I receive a notice on bootup that the hosts file has been changed by SpyBot (in response to IP's being changed in the file?). Also the Windows Diagnostic tool has become pretty much useless(but it wasn't very useful prior to blocking).

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"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>