Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Message 1747494 - Posted: 7 Dec 2015, 19:35:03 UTC

And I finally got my fathers machine back to Win 7. It seems Microsoft is planning on making it impossible for him to keep it that way. :(

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Message 1747507 - Posted: 7 Dec 2015, 20:39:55 UTC

Just turn updates of.
You can still install important updates manual.
I have set my machine this way since the very first day.

Trust no one.


With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 1747526 - Posted: 7 Dec 2015, 21:54:18 UTC

Annnnd this is why I research every single update that shows up on my laptop, and then go into WSUS and decline those updates before they reach my desktop.

I've been saying since.. July that new Update Clients are inherently not to be trusted. I have gotten a comment or two in this thread regarding that standpoint being pretty close to--if not outright--FUD. But now, it appears, that my initial standpoint on updates to, and totally new Update Clients are where the main concerns should be focused. Not to be brash, but... "I told you so" or "called it!" *shrug* Is what it is though.

I told my father a couple weeks ago that pretty soon, it would probably just be easiest to turn Windows Update off, since he not only had every win7 update on my list of updates to avoid, but had unknowingly told the upgrade to 10 to go ahead. It failed.. after four hours of trying to upgrade, and failed with an error that the hardware specs were not good enough for 10..... yet immediately after restarting from the failed install, it started over with nagging to upgrade to 10. I guess it isn't aware that it failed because the hardware isn't good enough.

I tried the 'AllowOSupgrade' registry key, and that did absolutely nothing. So I ended up making a batch file out of my list and ran it in an administrative command prompt. Took a good 15 minutes, but once it was done, I had to wait 3 hours for "checking for updates" to start from scratch, and then started hiding updates after more updates after more updates. One of them showed up as critical seven times before it finally stopped appearing. Once that process was done, I changed the settings to "check for updates, but let me choose what to download and install" and told him not to do anything, and when the notification happens that there are updates, call me and I'll use Team Viewer to manage it. That's when I said that before long, we'll just turn updates off entirely for simplicity.
Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)
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Message 1747548 - Posted: 7 Dec 2015, 22:48:20 UTC - in response to Message 1747507.  

Just turn updates of.
You can still install important updates manual.
I have set my machine this way since the very first day.

Trust no one.

I may have to do that, but that means I have to keep logging into my fathers computer, and I never do that unless he knows I am doing so. I like it when I don't have to mess with his system, but at least he is back to Win 7 for now.

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Message 1747564 - Posted: 7 Dec 2015, 23:54:48 UTC

I still have one computer on Win 10, but my primary computer will stay on Win 7.

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Message 1747586 - Posted: 8 Dec 2015, 2:01:38 UTC

I really don't understand the angst. I have Win 10 Pro, all updates included and have had no problems, lately anyhow. I have turned off all of the tracking and I don't need or use Cortana, on my desktop at least. My phone is a different situation altogether, it also works quite well though.

I have had more problems with the CCC drivers than anything else. They are stable just short of Crimson.

Yes, Win 10 gave me problems in the beginning (I've been in the Insider Program since very nearly the start). Now though, everything seems to be working quite well.
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Message 1747588 - Posted: 8 Dec 2015, 2:12:37 UTC

After everything I have read and heard, I will TRY win10 on my laptop(currently win8 which sucks canal water at low tide). If that fails I will try to find an upgrade to win7 for it.

Or I might have an old copy of vista laying around..
Janice
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Message 1747611 - Posted: 8 Dec 2015, 4:38:38 UTC

Still running vista on my main machine and its going to stay that way for the time being.

Got myself a laptop, I was told it had win 10 pre-installed but that sort of disappeared under a linux mint install.

I am now spending my spare time at work playing with it and learning to RTFM so I don't have to ask too many stupid questions.

I have not yet tried to install Boinc, but that is because I am using it on battery most of the time.
Kevin


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Message 1747637 - Posted: 8 Dec 2015, 6:54:17 UTC - in response to Message 1747611.  

Still running vista on my main machine and its going to stay that way for the time being.

Got myself a laptop, I was told it had win 10 pre-installed but that sort of disappeared under a linux mint install.

I am now spending my spare time at work playing with it and learning to RTFM so I don't have to ask too many stupid questions.

I have not yet tried to install Boinc, but that is because I am using it on battery most of the time.


It is too bad you had to pay for Win10 in the laptop price even though you loaded Linux on it. M$ still wins. Not only did you pay for Win10 but they do not have to worry about providing support, not that they would.

It would be nice if and when Windows goes SaaS that it came free and you only paid by the month/year when you started using it (register it) but I am sure they would still charge for the software first.
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Message 1747645 - Posted: 8 Dec 2015, 8:37:22 UTC - in response to Message 1747637.  

It is too bad you had to pay for Win10 in the laptop price even though you loaded Linux on it. M$ still wins. Not only did you pay for Win10 but they do not have to worry about providing support, not that they would.


Due to work and other commitments I have problems with parcel delivery services, I also prefur to buy locally if the price is reasonable, it was and it met all the specs that I wanted.

The only thing that I should have done that I forgot until it was to late was to get the win10 key, it was not included in the documentation. OTOH I have got other legit win versions that I could use.
Kevin


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Message 1747690 - Posted: 8 Dec 2015, 14:25:19 UTC - in response to Message 1747507.  

Just turn updates of.
You can still install important updates manual.
I have set my machine this way since the very first day.

Trust no one.

Greetings Mike,

Exact-a-mundo! :)

That is what I did once I had Win7 cleanly installed, for the third time I believe, and updated up to May this year. Once I got there, I turn Updates off and I see nothing from Micro$oft anymore. This is one PC that Micro$oft will NOT gain control of.

But! What about legitimate updates? Is there anything 'legitimate' when it comes to Micro$oft? Reading this thread tends to answer that question with a resounding NO!

As you said: "Trust no one." I do not trust Micro$oft in the slightest little bit.

I read that article linked by Jord and I am baffled. How can a huge company like Micro$oft be allowed to get away with what they are doing? They are literally commandeering every PC from unknowing victims. Some here, at least one that I know of, says there is no problem with his Window$ 10 install. Yeah right! That person no longer has control of 'updates'. Now, anything nefarious that Micro$oft wants on that PC will go on that PC no-matter-what. I will NOT turn control of my PC over to Micro$oft.

Who's to say that down the road Micro$oft won't control what a user can and cannot do on the Internet? Who's to say that Micro$oft won't put an end to distributed computing by making devices (GPUs) no longer work properly because of drivers? I'm seeing it here already, people having trouble with drivers no longer working or drivers from Micro$oft commandeering the device over the manufacturers driver(s).

Ok, enough of this. I got other things to do. ;)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
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Message 1747707 - Posted: 8 Dec 2015, 20:14:09 UTC

Windows Update patches KB 3112336 and KB 3112343 are all about Windows 10
They have been promoted to Important Updates and are checked by default.
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Message 1747905 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 13:53:14 UTC - in response to Message 1747707.  

Windows Update patches KB 3112336 and KB 3112343 are all about Windows 10
They have been promoted to Important Updates and are checked by default.

Hi Jord,

Yep! Another great reason to turn off Window$ Updates, no security/bug fix updates for Win7 or 8.1. I read the comments and here's what one person said:

"Can you find one single patch this year that's designed to improve Windows 7 or 8.1 for regular ol' customers?" <-- Authors statement


Why would Microsoft be improving those at this stage? <-- His comment


DUH!!! If Micro$oft is going to support those OSs for the next 5 years, or whatever, they sure as hell better be putting out security and bug fix updates for them.

Some people just don't have a clue... :|

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 1747919 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 15:48:59 UTC

I have disabled the Windows Update service in my daily driver 7 installation to preserve it's integrity.
I am not sure I shall ever install or trust another update from MS for fear of it hijacking my computer.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1747921 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 15:52:47 UTC - in response to Message 1747905.  
Last modified: 9 Dec 2015, 15:54:00 UTC

Another great reason to turn off Window$ Updates, no security/bug fix updates for Win7 or 8.1.

That's just stupid. Plenty of things still to fix in your Windows that can otherwise be taken over by baddies through ransomware injected through a Flash Player (e.g.)

Plenty of other programs that run on people's systems that require an updated Windows on security fixes as well, not in the least the internet banking programs, but just regular browsers, communicating with sites such as that of the IRS and just your plain capability of using SSL/HTTPS. Because if you do not allow Windows to update the certificates, you're not going to be surfing around that safely.

So telling people to stop Windows Update and not take in the security updates anymore is plain stupid. In my humble opinion, at least. You are scared over nothing.

Windows 10 won't be able to overtake your system ever, because its installer requires user input. So as long as you don't click "Yesser the Yes Yes, give it", it won't be installed.
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Message 1747925 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 16:03:43 UTC

I will keep accepting Security updates unless I read here that one of them does the "install 10" prompt. Other than that, I read the More Information on each and every one of them and only install them if it seems like I might actually need them. I'm not sure I really needed the recent one that added the Georgian and Azerbaijani currency symbols, but I took it anyway. I always do the time zone changes too; that's one you can't blame M$ for needing to be fixed.
David
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Message 1747926 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 16:06:56 UTC - in response to Message 1747921.  

The problem, Jord, is that that MS cannot be trusted anymore, and many of us (myself included) are having trouble sorting out which of the updates they are pushing out labeled as 'important' are really related to any security issues and which are related to MS agenda issues. IE, pushing everybody towards their Skynet edition of computer domination.

I don't think that being fearful of what MS is doing should be labeled as 'stupid'.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1747930 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 16:30:27 UTC - in response to Message 1747926.  
Last modified: 9 Dec 2015, 16:34:38 UTC

The problem, Jord, is that that MS cannot be trusted anymore, and many of us (myself included) are having trouble sorting out which of the updates they are pushing out labeled as 'important' are really related to any security issues and which are related to MS agenda issues.

And you could trust them on their word before this push to Windows 10?
For all of Windows 7, the 'blurb' on all of my security updates has always been "A security issue has been identified in a Microsoft software product that could affect your system. You can help protect your system by installing this update from Microsoft." etc. etc.
I've even had it loads of times that clicking the 'more information' link gave the exact same blurb.

But the thing is, that in none of the (e.g.) "Security Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems" updates has there ever been code added to try to get Windows 10 on your system.

Those have always been in the "Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems", as you can easily see from the list that Cosmic keeps up.

Plain updates for Windows 7 == highly suspicious.
Security updates for Windows 7 == if you want to continue being secure out there on the internet, best install.

And besides, if you would've installed KB2990214 and then used the Group Policy Editor -> Computer configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update -> Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update -> Enable, you wouldn't have to worry about any of this.
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Message 1747935 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 16:48:27 UTC - in response to Message 1747921.  

Another great reason to turn off Window$ Updates, no security/bug fix updates for Win7 or 8.1.

That's just stupid. Plenty of things still to fix in your Windows that can otherwise be taken over by baddies through ransomware injected through a Flash Player (e.g.)

Plenty of other programs that run on people's systems that require an updated Windows on security fixes as well, not in the least the internet banking programs, but just regular browsers, communicating with sites such as that of the IRS and just your plain capability of using SSL/HTTPS. Because if you do not allow Windows to update the certificates, you're not going to be surfing around that safely.

So telling people to stop Windows Update and not take in the security updates anymore is plain stupid. In my humble opinion, at least. You are scared over nothing.

Windows 10 won't be able to overtake your system ever, because its installer requires user input. So as long as you don't click "Yesser the Yes Yes, give it", it won't be installed.

Greetings Jord,

Show me where I specifically told anyone to turn OFF Window$ updates. I believe that I have just been agreeing with others and stating what I have done. So don't say I've done something that I have not done. OK?

As for security and bug fix updates? After reading that article I do NOT trust Micro$oft to send me any updates that are NOT tampered with so as to allow them to control my PC. If they cannot be truthful and list everything that a specific update does, I don't want them. That's not being scared, that's making sure my PC is still MY PC.

I find it hard to believe that Window$ would be tasked with the job of making sure that 10s or 100s of thousands of web certs are up-to-date. Or are there other certificates besides the ones listed in my browser that Window$ IS responsible for?

I seem to remember reading here that Micro$oft came up with a way to force a persons PC to 'update' to Window$ 10. There was no backing out of the install, nothing. All a person could do was allow the commandeering of their PC. They were stuck with Window$ 10 screwing up their PC. I'll see about finding the post here...

Keep on BOINCing...! :)
CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath
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Message 1747939 - Posted: 9 Dec 2015, 17:10:51 UTC - in response to Message 1747930.  

The problem, Jord, is that that MS cannot be trusted anymore, and many of us (myself included) are having trouble sorting out which of the updates they are pushing out labeled as 'important' are really related to any security issues and which are related to MS agenda issues.

And you could trust them on their word before this push to Windows 10?


And besides, if you would've installed KB2990214 and then used the Group Policy Editor -> Computer configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update -> Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update -> Enable, you wouldn't have to worry about any of this.

Trust them before this push to Skynet 10?
I suppose I did.
According to Merriam-Webster....
Definition of TRUST

a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something
b : one in which confidence is placed

Yes, I trusted that the updates they sent as 'important' were so because they were to maintain the integrity and safety of the OS I purchased from them, and for no other purpose.

Now, I need to consult a third party list to determine which updates I should install and which to stay away from? That is not trust.
Listing updates as 'important' when they are not for maintaining my OS as is? That is not trustworthy behavior.

As to your recommendation for installing KB2990214, I may try that over the holidays when I have the time to do so, and I thank you for that.

Meow.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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