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Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?
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OzzFan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 ![]() ![]() |
And this is where you are wrong about my original post. I was hypothesizing, speculating, whatever you want to call it. I was NOT stating facts. And how would anybody reading, trying to make up their minds about upgrading to Windows 10 or not, tell the difference? |
OzzFan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 ![]() ![]() |
Being retired, I have a lot of time on my hands. If I have nothing 'constructive' to do like fixing something in/on the house or mowing and trimming the lawns, I play 2 online games to pass the time, World of Warcraft and Star Trek Online. Those games do not have a Mac version let alone a Linux version. So you're telling those of us that do not like Window$ and/or Micro$oft to quit paying them and dump the OS? Well, there goes my games then. Giving up games, yes, is a choice. You could also try to find equivalents or replacement games. With Steam OS making some great headway on Linux, I imagine the Linux-gaming landscape to change considerably. We'll see. And yes, you could get them to play under WINE. I know a handful of gamers that do exactly that. |
OzzFan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 ![]() ![]() |
It could be considered as separate product if Win10 users would allowed to stay with Win10. But all current M$ behavior clearly implies that Win10->Win transition will be w/o any opt out. All signs point to this Windows 10 upgrade as being the traditional OS. If there's ever a subscription based version of Windows, it will be a separate product. Well, your thoughts already known on these forums. Good that you formulate it now as only your thoughts. Cause reality can be just opposite. All are only guessing currently, but some guesses follow from observed M$ behavior and some just... let say wishful thinking. I think you misunderstand me. My thoughts are that the claims that this Windows 10 upgrade will require users to buy a subscription in the future is unfounded. I was also attacked for believing in astrology, yet here you are, saying that you guys are trying to predict Microsoft's future behavior based upon what you see as past behavior... but *I* was accused of believing in astrology. As Jord said already your views (and you again rejected to provide any factological base to them) should not be ground for blackening others views. You trust to M$. Others not. And I would say they have good reasons to do so, really good ones. I am not "blackening" others views. I am attempting to keep the thread with factual information. It is several here that are trying to make assumptions about Microsoft's future behavior, and you make these assumptions on sometimes bad information. I have merely tried to correct any bad information when I see it. I have no problems with people who don't trust Microsoft. I don't trust Apple, but I don't go around making wild claims about the company and their future products, or spread outright lies knowingly. The problem I have with this thread is that I am the one being labeled as some sort of defender, champion, or somehow bullying other people into upgrading simply because I am trying to correct bad information. Somehow, everyone here seems to translate my attempts at correcting information as me telling others they must upgrade. Does everyone think that my goal is to take away everyone's complaints about upgrading so they will indeed upgrade? Because it's not. As I said before, a few times, in this thread. I don't care if people upgrade. Just please don't use bad information to make your choice. That's my only stance. P.S. And regarding claims: my claim M$ will at some point force us to do annual payment for PC Windows OS. If public reaction will be not fierce enough it will happen. And this is what I have a problem with. You're manufacturing a fear campaign based upon an assumption that Microsoft will force people to pay for this version of Windows 10. You fear that if the reaction isn't "fierce" enough, your campaign will lose, so you and others stoke the flames of retaliation, while further offering only speculation. How is that not a witch hunt? A little knowledge goes a long way. And I think this is the crux of the reaction against me. I am trying to counter bad information which could ruin this campaign against Microsoft. So what better way to silence someone like me than to constantly put pejorative labels on me and force me to defend positions I don't have? Supporting facts: Office 365, "windows as service", M$ officials talks of attractivity of annual payment and rental software. No. I am not saying that a subscription based version of Windows won't happen. I *KNOW* I've said that before in this thread several times. I don't understand why I have to keep repeating my position and re-clarifying it. (Yes, I am getting very frustrated.) Your supporting fact for a subscription based Windows is Office 365, which is a separate office product, and that Microsoft keeps talking about Windows as a Service (which has actually been explained already as to what that means, yet it seems many continue to translate that into a subscription-based model). Microsoft still releases Office as a stand-alone product. If Microsoft releases a subscription-based version of Windows, it will be a separate product, just like Office and Office 365 are separate products. This free upgrade that Microsoft has released will not be the version that becomes subscription based. Microsoft has already said this publicly. If they go back on their word, they risk a class-action lawsuit and possibly another DoJ investigation. The only way to get around their statements would be to release the subscription based Windows as a different product. |
OzzFan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 ![]() ![]() |
What percentage of the market does a company need before they are considered a monopoly? Legally: 100%. 99% is still not a monopoly. This is why the DoJ couldn't break Microsoft up back in the 90's when it was under investigation. In just 2 months of life, Window$ 10 has garnered 6.63% of the market for Operating Systems surpassing Mac OS X 10.10 at 4.91%, Linux at 1.74% and Others at 4.66%. Micro$oft holds, by my calculations as of this moment, 88.69% of the market for Operating Systems. Even at ~89% of the market, they are legally not a monopoly. This is why they are referred to as a de facto monopoly. They effectively own most the market, but they do not own all of it. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 ![]() ![]() |
And this is where you are wrong about my original post. I was hypothesizing, speculating, whatever you want to call it. I was NOT stating facts. Are you saying that every post on this forum needs a disclaimer now? DISCLAIMER: Asking a stupid question. CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 ![]() ![]() |
What percentage of the market does a company need before they are considered a monopoly? They don't 'own', they CONTROL! Keep on BOINCing...! :) CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 6325 Credit: 106,370,077 RAC: 121 ![]() ![]() |
So, one more not based on fact unjustified claim against which you warning? Proves?
Less unfounded then opposite. Any reasoning from you besides simple statements "it will not be" ?
Irrelevant.
I would interested to read your facts. Not as "you see it". But facts, any reasoning...
Irrelevant + accusation in lies w/o any proves again.
Maybe cause you don't correct info, just saying you do. You repeat only own unjustified opinion again and again. No surprise then.
All who advise against Win10 upgrade because of privacy issues use well-proven by many info. There are privacy breach and this fact proven already. I would reconsider your definition of "bad information".
Exactly. Cause in Win10 they already done nasty things that lead to such fear arise. You deny this, but opinion that denies facts hardly can pretend to be shared.
I can spell only on my own reaction on your posts. And I see only unjustified PR of M$ that definitely antagonize.
You position is to call proven info as "bad info". And to deny logical consequences from last M$ actions, not providing reasoning. What should come from it?
Perhaps because little but you himself know what you said in your own view. As I said before Windows can be unavoidable upgrade from Windows 10. You rejected this. But w/o any reasoning. So?
Yes. And here all depends of will this separate product really separate and if it will have alternative. You claim "yes". I hope so, but far not sure. And frustrated from current Win10 privacy settings enough to warn others about such possibility. EDIT: In last 2 paragraphs of that long post you did some reasoning based on Office vs Office 365. Yep. Indeed Office 2016 available: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msru/ru_RU/cat/Office/categoryID.67033100?gclid=CKG8idv8usgCFQkXcgod0T0GXg&gclsrc=ds&tduid=(a357bbcb9f2c70a211df14b6c6dc40f2)(230077)(2504127)(jkp_CKG8idv8usgCFQkXcgod0T0GXg)(G003) version with Access at cost of mid-PC. If Windows "stand alone" would cost as Ferrary I would refrain to consider it as real alternative. EDIT2: If one read carefully page with Office 2016 one will read: "upgrading to Office 365". What it means: Office 2016 positioned as restricted version. So could be with Windows "stand alone". Limited set of features (critical element for me is RDP availability for example) that could be enabled by "upgrading" to Windows with annual fee. |
OzzFan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 ![]() ![]() |
And this is where you are wrong about my original post. I was hypothesizing, speculating, whatever you want to call it. I was NOT stating facts. Of course not. But the topic is Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? It would be nice if people who are on the fence could come here to read facts and not be fed FUD. |
OzzFan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 ![]() ![]() |
What percentage of the market does a company need before they are considered a monopoly? Of course they don't control the market. They have a massive influence within the market, but they don't control it. |
OzzFan ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 9 Apr 02 Posts: 15691 Credit: 84,761,841 RAC: 28 ![]() ![]() |
All signs point to this Windows 10 upgrade as being the traditional OS. If there's ever a subscription based version of Windows, it will be a separate product. I simply can't understand what you're saying here. Too many double negatives. ... Oh no, I've correct the bad info. Sorry if you think my claims are unjustified. I can only lead a horse to water. I can't make them drink. Indeed, no surprise there when people already have their minds made up and continuously spout bad information. I've already provided my proofs much earlier in this thread. I'm not going to re-hash those same proofs every single time someone like you asks me to. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you go read my other posts. I'm far too busy to be bothered doing it for you. Just please don't use bad information to make your choice. That's my only stance. Again, you seem to keep moving the goal posts and changing what you think my position is. One more time: the issues of privacy concerns are understandable, and I have not once argued against the privacy claims. What I have argued against are the claims that Microsoft is going to force users to pay for Windows 10 later. I've also argued that Microsoft has not "reached" into anyone's PC. I have also argued that pushing Windows 10 is not bandwidth theft. My definition of bad information remains solid. It is the constant moving of the topic and what you think my position is that needs reconsidering. And this is what I have a problem with. You're manufacturing a fear campaign based upon an assumption that Microsoft will force people to pay for this version of Windows 10. Where have I denied that Windows 10 has done "nasty" things? I should hope you can elaborate much more eloquently than this. <sigh> One more time: yes, Microsoft has made some very questionable choices about data collecting and sharing. I've never denied that. But yet again, I find myself having to re-clarify this point, and yet again having to fend off this allegation against me. This is getting tiresome. And I think this is the crux of the reaction against me. I am trying to counter bad information which could ruin this campaign against Microsoft. Do you see what you did here? Now I'm being accused of spreading PR and antagonizing people. Why is it not that you guys are being incredibly unfair in some of your complaints, and why is it not that you've antagonized me? So what better way to silence someone like me than to constantly put pejorative labels on me and force me to defend positions I don't have? No. Once again. Your info on Microsoft forcing people to pay for the upgrade later is not based upon proven info. Neither is the allegation of bandwidth theft. And to deny logical consequences from last M$ actions, not providing reasoning. What should come from it? Your conclusions are not logical and I've pointed that out to you, and now we're going in circles. I've provided my reasoning. What should come of it is that you investigate my claims and give them the benefit of the doubt rather than attacking me every chance you get, or constantly making me defend positions I don't hold, or consistently mis-representing my positions as you've done throughout your post. I *KNOW* I've said that before in this thread several times. I don't understand why I have to keep repeating my position and re-clarifying it. (Yes, I am getting very frustrated.) I had to read this no less than a dozen times trying to figure out what it is you're trying to say here, and what it is you're accusing me of. What I think you said was that the subscription version of Windows will be the upgrade from Windows 10. If that's correct, no, you never said this specifically. You only said that Windows 10 will require people to pay for it later. And again, if my interpretation of what you said is correct, I provided reasoning. This is almost getting laughable how many times you tell me I haven't provided reasoning when I have. I told you that Office and Office 365 are separate products, therefore there's no reason to believe that Windows 10 and Windows Subscription [for lack of a better, descriptive term] will be the same or an inevitable upgrade. How is what I just typed not reasoning? Your supporting fact for a subscription based Windows is Office 365, which is a separate office product, and that Microsoft keeps talking about Windows as a Service (which has actually been explained already as to what that means, yet it seems many continue to translate that into a subscription-based model). Microsoft still releases Office as a stand-alone product. Fine. I'm perfectly OK with your concern about Microsoft's future lineup. And once again, I'm perfectly OK with the concerns about privacy. But before you warn others, just make sure your information is accurate. There's no reason to go around spreading bad information once someone corrects you. EDIT: In last 2 paragraphs of that long post you did some reasoning based on Office vs Office 365. That is the normal cost of Microsoft Office. It has always been an expensive suite. The full version of Windows is also typically high. People have just gotten used to the upgrade or OEM prices. EDIT2: No, it doesn't mean that it is a restricted version. See? This is how the bad information starts. You take a simple, albeit poorly written statement and you interpret it any way you see fit without researching to see if you're right. Office 2016 will be a full-featured, fully functional product without restriction. Look it up. Don't make me do all the work for you. You should be researching this stuff first before you start making false statements like that, and it shouldn't be on me to do your work for you. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 30 Jul 15 Posts: 268 Credit: 1,735,966 RAC: 0 ![]() |
Additionally, reports are coming in that KB3035583 is now released as an important update on both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. To stop Microsoft from automatically putting the Win 10 logo in your Win 7 system tray, you really should do the following. I can't say if this "step by step" is the same in others Win versions as I only use Win 7 64-bit. In Start / Control Panel / System and Security / Review your computer's status / Windows Update, make sure you have selected "Windows Update is set to check with you before downloading and installing updates." If the icon in NOT yet installed, the above action will stop it. If it IS installed see last paragraph below. Now, if your "clean" and have no icon showing, go to Start / Control Panel / System and Security / Windows Update / Check for updates and look at the "important updates" that are available. If you find KB3035583, UNCHECK the box and install the other normal updates if you wish. This will prevent the Win 10 icon from loading. From now on, perform the above anytime you feel the need to "update" and UNCHECK the KB3035583 box as Bill Gates, who loves you, will put it BACK there again, I promise. :) If you already have the Win 10 icon in your Win 7 system tray, look for "View installed updates" and follow the instructions to TRY to uninstall it. More on uninstalling it, if this doesn't work, is given in various places on the net. Good luck with that! River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth) "Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO" |
![]() Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3 ![]() |
KB3083710 is a re-release of KB3065987 on Windows 7, which enables you to block Windows 10 upgrade updates via group policy. KB3083711 is a re-release of KB3065988 on Windows 8.1, which enables you to block Windows 10 upgrade updates via group policy. |
![]() Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3 ![]() |
If you already have the Win 10 icon in your Win 7 system tray, look for "View installed updates" and follow the instructions to TRY to uninstall it. More on uninstalling it, if this doesn't work, is given in various places on the net. Useful advice. If you want to uninstall something, look elsewhere for help. On Windows 7: Start->All Programs->Windows Update->View updates history->Installed Updates, wait for the screen to populate, type in the KBxxxxxxxx number in the search bar. Type it starting with KB. When the correct update shows in the screen, click it to uninstall it. You can do multiple after each other, just click that you reboot later between uninstalls. Windows 8.1 probably has it the same way. You'll just have to search for Windows Update. |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 11 Feb 00 Posts: 1441 Credit: 148,764,870 RAC: 0 ![]() |
KB3083710 is a re-release of KB3065987 on Windows 7, which enables you to block Windows 10 upgrade updates via group policy. Last week, KB3083710 showed up as an Optional update. I didn't install it. This morning when I checked for updates, it showed up as an Important update. Guess Microsoft didn't get enough takers when it was only optional. ;^) (And I'm still not gonna bite unless they expand their KB description!) ![]() |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21582 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
More of the same... Beware, beware... In 2015, your Windows PC can be owned by opening a spreadsheet Patch your Microsoft and Adobe software today – like, right now... ... Don't forget to check to see if your Microsoft Windows patches include KB3035583, KB3083710 and possibly others, which will try to get you to install Windows 10 by stealth. Move along? IT is what we choose it to be, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 14 Mar 12 Posts: 5375 Credit: 30,870,693 RAC: 1 ![]() |
Thanks Rob for the update removal batch file, works like a charm and saves my failing eyesight sorting through 200 installed updates. ![]() "Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)> |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 30 Jul 15 Posts: 268 Credit: 1,735,966 RAC: 0 ![]() |
[quote]If you already have the Win 10 icon in your Win 7 system tray, look for "View installed updates" and follow the instructions to TRY to uninstall it. More on uninstalling it, if this doesn't work, is given in various places on the net. "Useful advice. If you want to uninstall something, look elsewhere for help." Sorry you took offense at my post intended to help prevent a Win 10 icon from being installed on Win 7. I posted what I KNEW would work to help others as I went thru it myself step by step. I did NOT post "uninstall" info as I could not verify it would work. I think THAT is a good policy. :) River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth) "Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO" |
![]() Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3 ![]() |
Great news! Windows 10 updates are now being enforced on people's systems. From GHacks.net: **** Two new types of Windows 10 upgrade messages appeared lately on systems running previous versions of Windows. The first displayed as a timer counting down from 60 minutes giving users options to start the upgrade process or reschedule it (but not disable it). It's almost time for your upgrade Save your work and leave your PC plugged in and turned on. Your PC might restart several times during the upgrade and it might take a while. We'll let you know when it's done. Starting the upgrade in The second displayed only the option to start the Windows 10 upgrade process after searching for updates using Windows Update (again with no option to stop the process). Your upgrade to Windows 10 is ready. You need to restart your Pc to being the installation. This might take a while, but we'll let you know when it's done. Both are reported by the creator of GWX Control Panel, a free program for Windows to block the upgrade to Windows 10 on user systems. **** **** Workarounds There is a couple of things that affected users can do to prevent the upgrade from happening in first place. 1. Stop the Windows Update Service. While this blocks the upgrade for the time being, it is not the best solution as it blocks you from receiving updates for your operating system. 2. Use System Restore to revert back to a previous system state. This is one of the better options provided that a System Restore point is available. To run System Restore, tap on the Windows-key, type cmd and hit enter. Type rstrui.exe and hit enter again to open the System Restore interface on the system. System Restore is not turned on by default on newer versions of Windows. 3. Restore a backup or system snapshot that you have created with third-party programs. So why is this happening? It is unclear right now how widespread the enforcement of the upgrade is and whether it is a bug, test or on-purpose turning of the screws by the company in an effort to get more systems upgraded to Windows 10. To give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt, it is possible that this is a bug that is affecting only some systems. While that is not really reassuring to affected users, I find it unlikely that Microsoft enforces upgrades to a new version of Windows without user consent. **** Also at ZDNet: I've come across unconfirmed reports that using System Restore to take the system back to a point before September 15 will get people out of the jam, although the fly in the ointment here is that Windows 8.1 no longer generates automatic restore points by default, and they can only be created manually. Only last month it was revealed that Microsoft was quietly downloading the Windows 10 installer files -- many gigabytes in size -- to users who had not asked for the, just in case they decided they wanted to upgrade. It seems that Microsoft is desperate to get laggards who are still running Windows 7 and Windows 8 onto Windows 10, but there's a fine line between being enthusiastic about a new operating system and behaving like you own every PC running Windows, and I think that in this case that line has been crossed. |
![]() Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3 ![]() |
Do not install (KB3035583) (GWX), again, or it will change back the regkeys to allow W10 upgrade again. Actually, half of those registry keys aren't installed by KB3035583 but by others. I know, because even though I have the 11th version of KB3035583 installed, I have nothing in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade I do have OSUpgradeState (value 1) and OSUpgradeStateTimeStamp in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade\State Also, if you truly do not want to have the Windows 10 installation, you'd better use KB3083710 (update for KB3065987) on Windows 7 or KB3083711 (update for KB3065988) on Windows 8.1 to add the Turn off the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update option in Local Group Policy Editor->Computer Configuration->Administrative Templates->Windows Components->Windows Update. Enables or disables the upgrade to the latest version of Windows through Windows Update. If you enable this setting, Windows Update will not offer you an upgrade to the latest version of Windows. If you disable or do not configure this setting, Windows Update might offer an upgrade to the latest version of Windows. But then, this is Microsoft who ignore what your preferences are. You have not reserved Windows 10 but will get it anyway. Do you really think they'll let one or two register keys, or lack thereof, be in the way of the Windows update that you know you won't be able to say no to? |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 30 Jul 15 Posts: 268 Credit: 1,735,966 RAC: 0 ![]() |
OMG, this Win 10 "force it down your throat" is getting totally out of hand! Time for a different OS? River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth) "Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO" |
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