All the updates can be removed post-installation – but all ensure the OS reports data to Microsoft even when asked not to, bypassing the hosts file and (hence) third-party privacy tools...

... The notes explain that diagnostic telemetry data is sent to settings-win.data.microsoft.com (64.4.54.253) over SSL. Privacy advocates note that the OS is hardwired to use that...[/i]


So, to me that reads that you need to have a firewall on your network router that blocks anything and everything to the specific IP address 64.4.54.253... (And any others that might be hard coded into whatever existing or new updates...). No DNS needed.

To me, that all looks to be extremely determined and devious...


IT is what you allow it to be,
Martin

I just did an nslookup on settings-win.data.microsoft.com and it indicated that the IP address for it is 65.55.44.108 and that there is no PTR record for 64.4.54.253. That being said, since ARIN indicates that 64.4.54.253 is assigned to M$, perhaps it would be a good idea to block both 64.4.54.253 and 65.55.44.108.

Regarding all the spying things...

-[ snip ]-
So you figure "I'll just block the connections using the 'hosts' file." Nope, everything is hard-coded in such a way that it bypasses that.
-[ snip ]-

Greetings Cosmic,

I added the following to my router to block them so that hard coded URLs won't help:

vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
settings-win.data.microsoft.com

I dare Micro$oft to try hacking my router to bypass it. lol :)

I would like to believe that would work, however, even without any DNS servers declared in your IP settings, and the DNS cache cleared.. much of the Windows internals/gubbins can still phone home. That means some parts of the framework underneath are hard-coded to communicate directly by IP, rather than looking up a domain name and getting the address.

There have been mentions on various tech news articles that phoning-home is deeply-embedded and hard-coded so that communication is basically guaranteed to happen as long as there is an Internet connection. *shrug* Maybe I'm wrong or misinterpreting things, but that's my understanding of that whole thing.

Greetings Cosmic,

(Replying with my laptop since Win7 Pro 64bit is currently undergoing a clean install on my main PC)

If in fact you are correct in this, then none of the computing populace using Winblow$ is safe from Micro$oft. I would think that if this is indeed happening then it's high time for an entity larger and more powerful than Micro$oft to step in and SHUT THEM DOWN!

Who the hell does Micro$oft think they are to bypass all our security measures we set up to protect OUR PCs and OUR other connected devices? Since Micro$oft has bought a BOAT LOAD of IP addresses, it would not be worth it to look up the address since their spyware will just use a random IP address to get our information to those servers. If that can be done...

(Clean install done, must work on my main PC now.)

Keep on BOINCing...! :)

---

CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

KB3092627 has been released to 'fix' a 'fix'. Unbelievable! Even their OWN TECHS can't admit a problem. WHAT A JOKE M$ has become. Roll ON! Switzerland, ban and then sue them!

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2979516/microsoft-windows/microsoft-releases-kb-3092627-to-fix-bad-patch-ms15-084kb-3076895.html

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Well youtuber Jerry ( aka Barnacules Nerdgasm) more or less predicted a world of hurt for them would come from the mass sackings of their testing team (including himself) that filtered the updates before release. I do suspect the new culture of using alpha software as release has taken hold though across the board. I find myself wondering if those using that technique have any time to actually use the product they're building, such that they'd understand it... well that makes me old-school I guess.

---

"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Still following one of the Dutch sites where people report all these Win10 sneak updates. One of them reported that his firewall said the following:
C:$Windows.~BT\Source\SetupHost.exe Outgoing TCP Access allowed to: (evsecure-ocsp.verisign.com;e8218.ce.akamaiedge.net;evintl-ocps.verisign.com;sb.symcd.com;g.symcd.com;ocsp.verisign.com) 23.52.59.27

Akamai Technologies, Inc. is a content delivery network or CDN and cloud services provider headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in the United States. Akamai's content delivery network is one of the world's largest distributed computing platforms, responsible for serving between 15 and 30 percent of all web traffic.

Verisign, Inc. is an American company based in Reston, Virginia, United States that operates a diverse array of network infrastructure, including two of the Internet's thirteen root nameservers, the authoritative registry for the .com, .net, and .name generic top-level domains and the .cc and .tv country-code top-level domains, and the back-end systems for the .jobs, .gov, and .edu top-level domains.

symcd.com is owned and operated by Symantec.

At least the latter can be a check for up-to-date certificates. The other two seem to be handling the Windows 10 installation files download to your system.

***
One other thing. For people with Windows 7 and 8.1 being told by Windows Update that WinX is ready to be installed, what are your settings for the Windows Update? Recommended Updates? And do you have Give me updates for Microsoft products and check for new optional Microsoft software when I update Windows checked on Windows Update in Control Panel\System and Security\Windows Update\Change settings ?

That's the only one checked on my system, and my Important Updates is set to Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them. , yet as I said, I still had the secret WinX update folders and files on my system. I can only think it comes from that "Give me updates for Microsoft products...", an option I have never seen before and so is on by default.

---

That's the only one checked on my system, and my Important Updates is set to Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them. , yet as I said, I still had the secret WinX update folders and files on my system. I can only think it comes from that "Give me updates for Microsoft products...", an option I have never seen before and so is on by default.

It is not on by default on my Windows 10 updated from 8.1 and I did not check it. I get regular updates and I choose when to install them, so I can suspend all BOINC projects before updating if a reboot is involved.
Tullio

---

One other thing. For people with Windows 7 and 8.1 being told by Windows Update that WinX is ready to be installed, what are your settings for the Windows Update? Recommended Updates? And do you have Give me updates for Microsoft products and check for new optional Microsoft software when I update Windows checked on Windows Update in Control Panel\System and Security\Windows Update\Change settings ?

That's the only one checked on my system, and my Important Updates is set to Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them. , yet as I said, I still had the secret WinX update folders and files on my system. I can only think it comes from that "Give me updates for Microsoft products...", an option I have never seen before and so is on by default.

I do have the Give me updates for Microsoft products and check for new optional Microsoft software when I update Windows option checked (otherwise, I don't think I'd get MS Office security patches) but my "Important updates" option is set to "Never check for updates". That's been the setting on all of my boxes for many, many years (at least since the inception of Win Vista). I simply do a manual "Check for Updates", at my convenience, once a week on my daily driver. Only if something shows up there will I make a note to do the same on my other machines, when time permits.

There almost seems to be a Win 10 lottery system in play here for Win 7/8 users, with such a variety of different sneaky behaviors being reported, with little regard to settings or history. I haven't had those hidden Win 10 folders reappear (yet), even after that attempt yesterday by Windows Update to pass off Win 10 as simply an "Important Update". Then again, that box has only been run sporadically for a very limited number of hours since reverting from Win 10 to Win 7. Perhaps if I just let it run 24/7 for a few days or so, my lottery number would come up. Who knows?

One other thing. For people with Windows 7 and 8.1 being told by Windows Update that WinX is ready to be installed, what are your settings for the Windows Update? Recommended Updates? And do you have Give me updates for Microsoft products and check for new optional Microsoft software when I update Windows checked on Windows Update in Control Panel\System and Security\Windows Update\Change settings ?

I've always had mine set for "get updates for all Microsoft products" (so that Office is included when checking for updates), but I've always gone with "check for updates, but let me choose what to download and install."

For whatever reason, on my main machine, optional updates appear in the same list as important.. no matter what I have the checkbox set for in the settings. My laptop does the opposite.. no matter what the checkbox is set for, the two are always separate.

I have not seen the Win10 download appear on either machine, probably because I have absolutely none of the updates installed that "help prepare the system for being upgraded," nor any of the ones that add spyware/data-mining. Everyone remember my color-coded list from a week or two ago? Every single one of those updates have been banned from my machines. Without those.. I can't get win10.

---

Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)

Microsoft violates European cookie law with forced Windows 10 downloads

Microsoft violates European cookie law by automatically and silently downloading Windows 10. Windows Update doesn't ask for specific permissions to do this.

The infamous European cookie law, which varies from country to country, goes beyond simply placing tracking cookies. "It also deals with scripts, reading device information, etcetera," says Dutch internet lawyer Arnoud Engelfriet to PCM. He points out that there is an exception for information or data which is needed for the technical operation of a machine.

However, Windows 10 and its install files are not necessary for the functioning of a machine. "Is Windows 10 necessary? I don't think so," says Engelfriet.

Either way, Microsoft downloads multiple gigabytes used for the update to Windows 10. This download happens automatically and silently in the background, which became apparant last week. "This really surprises me," says Engelfriet. The 'silent' aspect of this preload applies to both the download location as well as to the legally required permission. The download (which varies from 3 to 6 GB) are being placed in a hidden folder ($WINDOWS.~BT or $Windows.~WS) on disk C.

Furthermore, users are not being served the required legal permission before downloading the files. Placing the install files on pc's happen through Windows Update, which gives fixes and updates to each version of Windows.

Engelfriet says there is discussion among lawyers and engineers whether updates are merely 'fixes', or contain new functionalities as well. This, in theory, would be the nuance between updates and upgrades. However, Microsoft has been serving new functionality and features to through WIndows Update alongside fixes for bugs and security holes. Windows 10 is a completely new release.

The cookie law also states that placing or reading personal data must happen with explicit consent of the user beforehand. Having that consent in the EULA, as happens in Windows Update, is therefore not permitted, says Engelfriet.

Microsoft Netherlands responds to questions by PCM by saying Windows 10 is a 'Recommended Update'. These kinds of updates are being offered to users through Windows Update, but are unchecked by default.

Microsoft regularly puts out Recommended Updates, for instance to add a new currency symbol of the Russian ruble. These updates nearly always have the generic description 'Install this update to repair problems in Windows.'

After that, the user can find more information about the update by searching for the individual KB-number ('Knowledge Base'). The past few months, there have been issued updates for both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, that prepared users for the arrival of Windows 10. These are the notification that makes reserving the OS possible, en compatibility enhancements for the upgrade to Windows 10.

In an additional response, Microsoft says the automatic preload has been adjusted. Before, it was only applicable to users that explicitely reserved the upgrade, but that was later 'changed to the standard process of Windows Update', a spokesperson tells PCM. This happened in the days after Windows 10 was being rolled out to the public, which happened 29 July.

"Users' machines that already received automatic updates through Windows Update are being prepared for the upgrade to Windows 10, using the necessary files for the future Windows 10 installation. This results in a better upgrade experience as soon as it's available, and makes sure the device will always contain the most recent software."

---

Microsoft Netherlands responds to questions by PCM by saying Windows 10 is a 'Recommended Update'. These kinds of updates are being offered to users through Windows Update, but are unchecked by default.

Well, perhaps in the Netherlands it's only an unchecked "Recommended Update" but, as shown in the screenshots I posted yesterday in Message 1725538, here in the good ol' U.S. of A. it's apparently become an "Important Update" that's checked by default. At least I didn't get hit with the forced download, though. Perhaps that's because there's absolutely nothing "automatic" in my approach to Windows Update, not even merely checking to see if new updates are available. It's a totally manual process here.

I've installed KB3035583 to see if this one does the push-download on its own. I doubt it, but am testing this for a web-magazine. Arstechnica is saying that this update alone is responsible for the push-download.

But seeing how many of the diagnostic & telemetry updates there are, wouldn't these work together with KB3035583? Because that way MS can snoop on your system, see if certain updates are there yet, see if they downloaded the WinX upgrade files to you yet and if not... send them.

Anyway, I'll leave the update on my system for a week.
The message This update installs the "Get Windows 10" notification on Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 is not correct as I don't see the GWX icon and haven't been nagged yet about WinX in any way or form. So I suspect that one or more other updates are required for this as well.

---

Tuesday. September 15th. 2015 @2.44 PM. [GMT-0800]. Day of year = 258

"How to uninstall default Windows 10 apps you never knew you had"
by Preston Gralla

http://www.itworld.com/article/2983665/windows-apps/how-to-uninstall-default-windows-10-apps-you-never-knew-you-had.html

Some things are mentioned in the above link I've not seen in all the Win 10 posts so far. It may be helpful to some and is why I'm posting it?

---

River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"

I've installed KB3035583 to see if this one does the push-download on its own. I doubt it, but am testing this for a web-magazine. Arstechnica is saying that this update alone is responsible for the push-download.

But seeing how many of the diagnostic & telemetry updates there are, wouldn't these work together with KB3035583? Because that way MS can snoop on your system, see if certain updates are there yet, see if they downloaded the WinX upgrade files to you yet and if not... send them.

Anyway, I'll leave the update on my system for a week.
The message This update installs the "Get Windows 10" notification on Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 is not correct as I don't see the GWX icon and haven't been nagged yet about WinX in any way or form. So I suspect that one or more other updates are required for this as well.

As I have responded to others here and elsewhere. It TAKES TIME for KB3035583 to pick up and show you the "Get Win 10" Icon. Sometimes 24 Hrs later it kicks in, sometimes over a week goes by. KB3035583 first goes over your existing hardware to make sure it is all compatible with Win 10. Then at some point it decides to show you the "Get Win 10" icon. So, be patient, give it time, the icon will show up.

It took quite a while for Vic's icon to show; but, it finally did show. As for all the other KBs that are Win 10 related, I don't fully understand what they do, or how they do what they do.


TL

---

TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

Quite a thread, and quite a surprising response, for both those showing concern and to my mind, yet more amazingly for those (deliberately?) ignoring all concern...


Roll back to 2012 for a rather apt interview... The host seems to be a little disturbed about what he is hearing.

Are we really suffering government bullying from "extreme capitalism"? And our strangulation by computer is just one of a number of symptoms?


Spooky stuff for how the comments from 2012 look to fit uncomfortably closely here today for computing and consumer devices and our world around us:

YouTube: RT LIVE INTERVIEW 2012



Note: This no comment about any one operating system. More of a wake-up for what looks to be happening now... And very good show for how the presenter gets rather uncomfortably flustered...


IT is what you allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I've installed KB3035583 to see if this one does the push-download on its own. I doubt it, but am testing this for a web-magazine. Arstechnica is saying that this update alone is responsible for the push-download.

But seeing how many of the diagnostic & telemetry updates there are, wouldn't these work together with KB3035583? Because that way MS can snoop on your system, see if certain updates are there yet, see if they downloaded the WinX upgrade files to you yet and if not... send them.

Anyway, I'll leave the update on my system for a week.
The message This update installs the "Get Windows 10" notification on Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 is not correct as I don't see the GWX icon and haven't been nagged yet about WinX in any way or form. So I suspect that one or more other updates are required for this as well.

Also don't forget there are a number of updates that make changes to the Windows Update service to ease the upgrade process along. I wouldn't expect 3035583 alone to make it happen.

---

Linux laptop:
record uptime: 1511d 20h 19m (ended due to the power brick giving-up)

I think it's time we face reality. The best course of action is to go back to the ship and nuke Win10 from orbit. Only way to be sure. If just one of those 'things' makes it off of this planet the whole galaxy could be at risk. Hudson, make darn sure one doesn't get on the shuttle and make it back to the ship, that wouldn't end well for anybody...

After reading through this thread, I think I'm going to set up my NetVista X with the PIII and 768MB of RAM. I LIKED Windows 2000 pretty well and I have all sorts of software (full versions of Office Professional and WordPerfect Office and a lot of image editing software and a full copy of Acrobat and...) Then I just won't get on the stupid internet with it.

And it was all pretty quick with that processor and that much RAM.

Or a P4 with XP, 3GB, and no internet connection!

Do you think they can update through the electric grid?

Or do I just load Linux?

Linux installs and runs fine on any machine made in the last ten years. I see no reason to raid the closet and worry about Product Keys. It comes with the basic LibreOffice apps preloaded, you can install the rest of LibreOffice from the software center, along with the Free image editor GIMP using One click, https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/

http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features



Thousands of Free Apps, No Product Keys, Installed with One Click, and No Antivirus contracts...

M$ has just sent me 9 'optional' updates, some look suspicious so I will wait for the jury of analysis to say yeah or nay.

One major problem I have with a total switch to Linux is Quicken. I have used the program for 20(?) years for my finances and reading there is not a reliable way to run that program in Linux. Some have tried various emulators but with little success. Any Linux gurus out there have a workable suggestion?

---

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>

Can crunching be configured exactly the same as in Windows? Multiple GPUs, both MB & AP on GPUs?, CUDA? If so, I would consider it. I use Linux Mint in a virtual machine for email and web browsing, but my impression is that configuring it for SETI@home is a bit of a nightmare.

Linux installs and runs fine on any machine made in the last ten years. I see no reason to raid the closet and worry about Product Keys. It comes with the basic LibreOffice apps preloaded, you can install the rest of LibreOffice from the software center, along with the Free image editor GIMP using One click.... https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/