...

So pls, short & precisly, what exactly does concern you with W10? Give me a few concrete examples pls.

To my personal view and opinion:

Microsoft has overtly moved Windows to be an advertisement portal to literally take over your online AND offline world.

You must agree that Microsoft and whatever 3rd parties they sell you to have complete and total control of your online experience and all your work, contacts, devices, to persuade you to make payments.

All very coercively intrusive that is bound to end in tears.

Note especially all the proprietary secrecy and defaults to sweep everyone along by default...


All just my old-school opinion.


And you though our present level of spamming was bad?!

IT is what we allow it to be...
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I still have that spammy little icon taunting me to click on it.
I shall not. Not even the 'important' crap, because I can no longer trust anything coming from MS anymore.
When the EU courts get done with MS and this latest round of malware they are sending out, they are gonna pay and pay and pay bigtime.
They did not apparently get the message last time.
This whole bit is gonna blow up in their face.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

So pls, short & precisly, what exactly does concern you with W10? Give me a few concrete examples pls.

If BOINC were to do something like this, you'd be quickly uninstalling it, scorching any remnants it left from your hard drive, while complaining out loud about it on any forum and tell all your friends and relatives to steer away from the program.

So why allow your operating system to do it? Why is it then all right?

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So pls, short & precisly, what exactly does concern you with W10? Give me a few concrete examples pls.

If BOINC were to do something like this, you'd be quickly uninstalling it, scorching any remnants it left from your hard drive, while complaining out loud about it on any forum and tell all your friends and relatives to steer away from the program.

So why allow your operating system to do it? Why is it then all right?

It isn't.
You are precisely correct.
I paid for the OS once. I now own it. And should be done paying for it.
Like I said, the courts have chastised MS for hiding and lying and cheating with ransomware. That is what this is. Trying to hold every computer in hock as a money making scheme. The entire world knows it now.

And they, I hope, are not going to get away with it this time.
XP still works fine on 8 of my crunching rigs. They are not allowed to even think about updates. If and when I have a hardware failure, I can still reload from disk. And carry on, because I paid for the license once, and shall not again.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

So pls, short & precisly, what exactly does concern you with W10? Give me a few concrete examples pls.

If BOINC were to do something like this, you'd be quickly uninstalling it, scorching any remnants it left from your hard drive, while complaining out loud about it on any forum and tell all your friends and relatives to steer away from the program.

So why allow your operating system to do it? Why is it then all right?

Sorry but what exactly are you talking about? If BOINC would do what?

And Mark, I don't understand you either. You say you "should be done paying for it". You are, aren't you? Who would want you to pay again? And Ransomware in Windows? Srsly?

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So pls, short & precisly, what exactly does concern you with W10? Give me a few concrete examples pls.

If BOINC were to do something like this, you'd be quickly uninstalling it, scorching any remnants it left from your hard drive, while complaining out loud about it on any forum and tell all your friends and relatives to steer away from the program.

So why allow your operating system to do it? Why is it then all right?

Sorry but what exactly are you talking about? If BOINC would do what?

And Mark, I don't understand you either. You say you "should be done paying for it". You are, aren't you? Who would want you to pay again?

Apparently, according to some accounts of those afflicted with the MS 10 virus, MS wants them to.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Sorry but what exactly are you talking about? If BOINC would do what?

In your own words:

I have read the last few pages of this thread and while there is a lot of talking about privacy, security, spying, etc. {snip}

What if BOINC were to step in on your privacy, security, would spy on you?
What if BOINC were to gather information about anything on your hard drives and send that anonymously to Berkeley for storage and use by themselves and third party companies?
What if BOINC were to gather information on anything you did with your computer, any movements your mouse made, any keys you hit, and send that anonymously to Berkeley for storage and use by themselves and third party companies?
What if BOINC were to use your webcam to make images of you and send those to Berkeley for storage and use by themselves and third party companies?
What if BOINC were to secretly download a full image of itself onto computers of yours that have an older version of BOINC installed, that you do not want to upgrade and have not given Berkeley permission to install anything on to either? What if this BOINC image would try to install itself onto those computers each time you rebooted?

Aside from the webcam images (that we know of), all of the above are things WinX does by default and is being excused by lots of its fans. So I guess they won't have a problem with BOINC, or any program they now install, doing all of that then as well.

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Come on. You can disable most of that during installation already. And for older windows downloading W10 files, AFAIK that only happens when automatic updates are enabled.

BTW: I highly doubt MS runs Keyloggers or analyzes mouse movements. Where did you get that from??

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If Boinc did any of those things, it would have been excised from the computing community at large long ago.

Why then, accept such behavior from a basic OS????
Has the world been so dumbed down that this is OK?

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Come on. You can disable most of that during installation already. And for older windows downloading W10 files, AFAIK that only happens when automatic updates are enabled.

Such BS should be opt-in, not enabled by default.
How many people do you think are smart enough to go back in after the fact and protect their security later?

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

I don't really see any problems with windows 10, it's just an operating system

I don't really see any problems with windows 10, it's just an operating system

LOL, just what MS wants you to think.
If you were not so delusional, they would be quite disappointed.
Have fun, buddy.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

I do not have automatic updates enabled, have disabled that since when I installed Windows 7 five years ago, yet I had 5.59GB of folders and data on my system. I even had KB3065987 installed in July (group policy telling not to update Windows to a new version), yet on August 1st Microsoft downloaded all of that to my system anyway.

As for the 'most of that can be disabled during installation', yep that's what the fans say as well. They don't question why all this crap needs to be in their operating system in the first place. They don't wonder if Microsoft can turn it secretly all back on with a future update.

Lots of people don't install free programs from Sourceforge and Github because the installers used install extra software if you do not read the pages in the installer correctly. You can turn off the installing of the extra software as well, but no, rather than do that they just don't install it. But it's all right for Microsoft to do it with their operating system?
Added to that, you cannot turn it all off, not unless you use an Enterprise version of Windows. Else parts continue to work.

Now to compare this:
When BOINC was doing a default installation as a service, something that users could easily disable during the installation, the complaints were that it was secretly trying to install itself as a service and that this needed to change.

When BOINC added VirtualBox in the default installer, the complaints were that many people don't need this program and that they do not want to download it. The installer without VirtualBox was also available, you just had to click an extra link for it.

These days we still get complaints from people that the default version comes with VirtualBox, while on the main download page you have the 'with VBox' and 'without VBox' side by side. But since the 'with VBox' is on the left, people associate that with it being the default and they want that changed.

BOINC was for a long time looking for ways to integrate peer to peer software into the client, to easily download work from many places, spread the load on the servers so to say. This is seen as a security breach by many of the volunteer developers and users and so it's on the back-burner.

Windows 10 Windows Update is by default using a built-in peer to peer program to spread the updates quickly around. You can turn it off, but you have to search for the option to do so. And only after you fully installed and updated Windows 10, not during installation. The P2P program is also used to upload programs you downloaded via the Windows Store to other computers. This knowledge is only available on the Windows web site, not in the description of the setting itself.

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BTW: I highly doubt MS runs Keyloggers or analyzes mouse movements. Where did you get that from??

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

Microsoft collects data to operate effectively and provide you the best experiences with our services. You provide some of this data directly, such as when you create a Microsoft account, submit a search query to Bing, speak a voice command to Cortana, upload a document to OneDrive, or contact us for support. We get some of it by recording how you interact with our services by, for example, using technologies like cookies, and receiving error reports or usage data from software running on your device. We also obtain data from third parties (including other companies).

You will have told Microsoft that is all right, when signing the Windows 10 End User License Agreement (EULA)
By accepting this agreement or using the software, you agree to all of these terms, and consent to the transmission of certain information during activation and during your use of the software as per the privacy statement described in Section 3. If you do not accept and comply with these terms, you may not use the software or its features.

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I agree that some options shouldn't be on by default. But in the end I really don't see any reason not to use W10. If MS really wants to spy on us, I'm sure they could do it on 8 or 7 also. And I'm pretty sure I have already heard complaints about Windows "phoning home" and privacy concerns when XP came out.

Ageless, yes, they collect some things that you type, but they do not log "any key you hit". That's quite a difference;-)

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I agree that some options shouldn't be on by default. But in the end I really don't see any reason not to use W10. If MS really wants to spy on us, I'm sure they could do it on 8 or 7 also. And I'm pretty sure I have already heard complaints about Windows "phoning home" and privacy concerns when XP came out.

Ageless, yes, they collect some things that you type, but they do not log "any key you hit". That's quite a difference;-)

They could do that secretly. And could be punished badly when caught. With Win10 they can do all spying per their EULA, that is, un-punished even if it will be discovered. No difference?

P.S. and regarding "not logging everything" - from where you know what exactly they logging? To pass EVERYTHING will be just unnoticed in your bandwidth. And EULA allows them to do that.

I had a lot of misgivings about the privacy issues raised, that prevented me considering full migration over time to Win10. I do private contract work that has no place floating around Microsoft's or anyone else's clouds.

A lot of those concerns (but not all) have dissipated with finding out that the similar malware-like behaviour is being injected into Win7/8.1 updates as well. In the scheme of things, It'll be easier to bolt down a Win10 machine in the short term, because of so many eyes on it. XP isn't really in consideration here for technical reasons ( I need to develop for newer gear/Oses), but would be something to think about for crunch-only rigs

The things I like about Win10 are pretty hard to ignore. It's quite snappy on an aged Core2Duo PC, and in general the driver quality seems improved ( though I had to disable nvidia streaming stuff to stop some DPC latency spikes). The Interface feels more solid, fluid and unobtrusive than my Mac Pro ( OSX Yosemite) or Linux Box ( Ubuntu 14.04 for main development). Probably more or less on par with XPx64 in annoyance factor.

It seems like there's a lot of stuff to go through and turn off before I can migrate to it for a main machine. I'm curious enough that I might put snort on the network to hoover up and report on the Win10 test machine's network activity. My digital footprint is too big already :)

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Please do not forget XP, Jason.
It is what I do.
I'd rather you spend your limited resources doing what you do best, rather than trying to sort 10's piccadillies.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Just a note;

You don't own Windows, MS license it to you. This is from the Win 7 pro EULA, which of course you read? I didn't

SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights
to use the features included in the software edition you licensed. Microsoft reserves all other rights.
Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as
expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in
the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways.

By using it you have agreed, it you didn't agree you send it back.

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Oh I think XP will be around for a while yet ( no doubts to MS's annoyance)

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.