Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?

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Profile Jeff Buck Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1707385 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 16:59:55 UTC - in response to Message 1707349.  

There they are, just waiting to pounce, the next time I reboot. Sigh. Interestingly, it's only showing 3 of the 4 GPUs, but I would expect the update will apply to all 4.

Before I reboot, I'll try downloading that "Show or hide updates" troubleshooter hack from MS. I don't know if it will let me preemptively block those updates or if it will only block previously installed updates from reinstalling. Guess I'll find out.

Sad. Do let us know how it goes.

You asked for it, you got it! ;^)
The hide and seek hack seems to work, but it still leaves me a bit uneasy, even after 5 successful reboots with no sneaky driver install.



Note that the tool found 3 driver updates....



....but only seemed to fix/hide 2 of them. Checking the Windows Update screen, it still showed all 3 waiting to pounce, as in my earlier post. But I went ahead and rebooted with no adverse consequences. 352.84 was still the driver of record. Again, checking the Windows Update screen, it now showed only one driver update waiting, for the 660. I ran the troubleshooter again. It showed that single driver update. I selected it again. The troubleshooter again hid it, but Windows Update still showed it. I rebooted.

Once again, no adverse consequences but the update for the 660 was still shown in Windows Update. I repeated the troubleshooter sequence, then did a complete shutdown and cold boot. Worked fine, but no change to Windows Update. So, this time I rebooted without rerunning the troubleshooter and kept my fingers crossed (hopefully not affecting the outcome by doing so). Driver remained as 352.84, even though Windows Update still shows that one driver update waiting.

So, it does seem to work, but with confusing and contradictory information being displayed by Windows. Now, what will be interesting to see is what happens tonight. Will Windows Update see that the old driver is still there and try downloading the newer one once again. We'll just have to wait and see.

Having said all that, even though this hide and seek hack seems like it works (assuming nothing happens tonight), I don't think it's a particularly viable solution to the driver download problem. As soon as NVIDIA (or AMD or Intel or ???) release a new driver, the Windows 10 user is going to have to be vigilant enough to not only know about the new driver, but to catch the update after Windows Update downloads it but before it gets installed. Otherwise, there will be the extra annoyance of having to rollback the new driver as well as block Windows Update from reinstalling it. A shining example of a PIA "feature" in Windows 10. ;^)
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Message 1707388 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 17:02:29 UTC

Last time around I saved an .iso to hard drive, that took about 15 minutes total (downloading, verifying and actual writing). Now I am downloading a separate version to a USB thumb-drive. It's at 3% and taken 15 minutes to get there. At this rate, it's going to take 8.5 hours to finish and that's just the download.
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Message 1707389 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 17:10:19 UTC - in response to Message 1707385.  

There seems to be the old Windows 7 option still available as well. It doesn't work for everyone, but maybe it does for you.

Click Start button and select Control Panel. Navigate to System and Security > System > Advanced system settings. Click the Hardware tab, click Device Installation Settings, and select the "No, let me choose what to do" option. Select "Never install driver software from Windows Update."
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Message 1707392 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 17:15:39 UTC

For those of you complaining about Automatic downloads or driver updates, I do not completely understand your argument. The information is readily available to anyone;

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-hardware/how-to-disable-windows-update-from-auto-updating/8f5a50fd-403b-4207-bcf2-20cd32f4b1e9?auth=1

I myself am running Windows 10 Pro. I have the same alternatives to Automatic Updates that I always have. Windows 10 Home Version doe's not as I understand it.
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Message 1707394 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 17:21:53 UTC - in response to Message 1707389.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2015, 17:27:31 UTC

There seems to be the old Windows 7 option still available as well. It doesn't work for everyone, but maybe it does for you.

Click Start button and select Control Panel. Navigate to System and Security > System > Advanced system settings. Click the Hardware tab, click Device Installation Settings, and select the "No, let me choose what to do" option. Select "Never install driver software from Windows Update."

Yes, that was actually the very first thing I did after the Windows 10 install, because I was the one who had said previously in this thread (before my own Win 10 install) that I thought that particular option would prevent the driver update problem from even rearing its ugly head at all. The fact that it had no effect is what's led to this particular path of investigation.
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Message 1707422 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 20:25:46 UTC - in response to Message 1707388.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2015, 20:46:16 UTC

Last time around I saved an .iso to hard drive, that took about 15 minutes total (downloading, verifying and actual writing). Now I am downloading a separate version to a USB thumb-drive. It's at 3% and taken 15 minutes to get there. At this rate, it's going to take 8.5 hours to finish and that's just the download.

It's going a bit faster. Started at 17.45 local time, it's now at 75%, 22.25h. So going to take another 2 hours or so. For the download. Not the verify or the actual write. ;)

Edit at 22.45h: No, at 76% the USB light started flashing rapidly, and progress ran fast up to 100%. It's now finished.
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Message 1707424 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 20:29:03 UTC - in response to Message 1707389.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2015, 20:30:03 UTC

There seems to be the old Windows 7 option still available as well. It doesn't work for everyone, but maybe it does for you.

Click Start button and select Control Panel. Navigate to System and Security > System > Advanced system settings. Click the Hardware tab, click Device Installation Settings, and select the "No, let me choose what to do" option. Select "Never install driver software from Windows Update."

This is how my Win 7 Pro is set; yet, when I tried to manually update my NVIDIA Driver, (clean install), to Driver 353.30, it crashes on the reboot and Windows forces the Generic Windows Drivers for the built in GeForce 9400 on the Motherboard, and for my GTX-750 TI SC. No matter what Driver I try between 347.88 and 353.30, I CANNOT get them to take. So, I reverted to 337.88, and the 750 TI SC is once again seen by BOINC and allowed to crunch. My fear is that Win 10 Pro will still try to FORCE install the latest Win 10 NVIDIA Driver over 337.88, and then that will cripple my system. I've tried to turn off the GeForce 9400 in the BIOS; but, there is NO OFF SWITCH for it... Without being able to disable the GeForce 9400, I'm stuck at Driver 337.88 for the 750 TI to function. I'm afraid Win 10 Pro will upset this delicate balance on Prometheus. :-(


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Message 1707435 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 20:58:00 UTC - in response to Message 1707424.  
Last modified: 1 Aug 2015, 20:58:34 UTC

Checking the available driver downloads at NVIDIA's site, it appears that the lowest numbered WHQL driver for the 750Ti under Win 10 is 352.84, while the only driver available for the GeForce 9 Series under Win 10 is 341.74. I wonder how Win 10 would even be able to resolve that conflict.
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Message 1707457 - Posted: 1 Aug 2015, 23:31:07 UTC

Maybe install Windows 10 on spare hard drive to see if it would work
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Message 1707470 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:05:02 UTC - in response to Message 1707457.  

Maybe install Windows 10 on spare hard drive to see if it would work

That's kinda the plan. We have four computers in the house that qualify for free upgrading to Win 10. (Two are laptops, two are desktops.) I plan to take each computer individually to Central Computer in Pleasanton. There, they will clone each existing drive onto a new 1 TB drive; then, install the 1 TB drives into each system.

From there, I will upgrade each system, (one at a time), to Win 10. Three will be Win 10 Home, and one, (Prometheus), will be Win 10 Pro. Once I've updated the new 1 TB Drive to Win 10 Pro, I will see how it wants to handle the video drivers. If it crashes, or just won't let BOINC crunch, I'll pull the drive and replace it with the original 250 GB Win 7 Pro drive and stick with Win 7 Pro.

The other three Win 7 Home Premium systems, (two Laptops and one Desktop), don't crunch, and don't have GPUs of any kind. So, their upgrades to Win 10 Home will be simple.


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Message 1707472 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:12:06 UTC

I meant that if you already had a blank drive or a drive that you could erase you could just install Windows 10 on it from scratch to see if it would work
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Message 1707473 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:12:33 UTC - in response to Message 1707424.  

I had the same problem with the NVidia drivers in win 7
I solved the problem by uninstalling the driver myself then reinstall it after reboot with the current version
I came down with a bad case of i don't give a crap
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Message 1707474 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:15:05 UTC - in response to Message 1707472.  

I meant that if you already had a blank drive or a drive that you could erase you could just install Windows 10 on it from scratch to see if it would work

I have no spare hardware to utilize. Anything to do with obtaining a newer drive would involve me going to Central Computer. I will, thus, stick to the plan... My dad is paying for his two systems to be upgraded to 1 TB drives and I will somehow be paying for my two systems to be upgraded to 1 TB drives. Then I can commence upgrading to Win 10 on each system.


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Message 1707475 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:17:27 UTC - in response to Message 1707473.  

I had the same problem with the NVidia drivers in win 7
I solved the problem by uninstalling the driver myself then reinstall it after reboot with the current version

I tried that both manually uninstalling the drivers and using Display Driver Uninstaller to remove COMPLETELY the old drivers, then installed each new driver one at a time doing "Clean Install"... NOTHING WORKS ABOVE 337.88 because of the old NVIDIA GeForce 9400 card soldered onto the Motherboard.

It WON'T WORK!!!


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Message 1707477 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:20:02 UTC - in response to Message 1707475.  

NOTHING WORKS ABOVE 337.88 because of the old NVIDIA GeForce 9400 card soldered onto the Motherboard.

Most BIOSs allow the on board graphics to be disabled there.
The other option is Device Manager, select the properties for the on board graphics, select the driver tab & then select the option to disable hardware.
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Message 1707480 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:22:28 UTC - in response to Message 1707474.  

I have access to several dozen extra drives in decent condition. I could give you a drive and you could try the experiment yourself.
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Message 1707493 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:33:26 UTC - in response to Message 1707480.  

I have access to several dozen extra drives in decent condition. I could give you a drive and you could try the experiment yourself.

I don't have cloning software... I don't want to have to buy cloning software that I will only use once... It makes more sense to me to utilize the resources at Central Computer to clone our existing drives.

If you have cloning software that would be great! :-) But I'm NOT expecting to mooch off people, that's NOT right... Plus, I don't have experience using cloning software, so I'd need your assistance to clone the drives of the two Desktops, (Prometheus, and Farragut), both mine and my parents'. How we clone the two Laptop Drives I don't know... I think they'd have to be done externally from each laptop.

If you have the software and two 1 TB SATAs and one "thick" Laptop Drive and one "thin" laptop drive, 1 TB each... Otherwise, I'd still have to go to Central Computer to buy the drives...

My OLD laptop is from 2010, and is an HP Pavilion DV9000. My dad's newer HP Pavilion Laptop is a DV7. They use different hard drive technologies...


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Message 1707500 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:45:41 UTC

I didn't mention anything about cloning software, although I do have some and can make you a copy. Your primary issue is with dual video and boinc and whether or not Windows 10 would play friendly. So I suggested that on an extra drive you could install Windows 10 on it just to see if the dual video would still work with boinc under the new OS. The stuff with the other machines can wait unless you're in a hurry to brick four machines in one weekend.
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Message 1707503 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 0:49:13 UTC - in response to Message 1707500.  

I didn't mention anything about cloning software, although I do have some and can make you a copy. Your primary issue is with dual video and boinc and whether or not Windows 10 would play friendly. So I suggested that on an extra drive you could install Windows 10 on it just to see if the dual video would still work with boinc under the new OS. The stuff with the other machines can wait unless you're in a hurry to brick four machines in one weekend.

I will stick to my plan of utilizing Central Computer... $79.95 per cloning plus the new drives.

I just have to save money... NOT easy on SSDI... :-(


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Message 1707513 - Posted: 2 Aug 2015, 1:30:55 UTC - in response to Message 1707392.  

You asked for it, you got it! ;^)

...

Having said all that, even though this hide and seek hack seems like it works (assuming nothing happens tonight), I don't think it's a particularly viable solution to the driver download problem. As soon as NVIDIA (or AMD or Intel or ???) release a new driver, the Windows 10 user is going to have to be vigilant enough to not only know about the new driver, but to catch the update after Windows Update downloads it but before it gets installed. Otherwise, there will be the extra annoyance of having to rollback the new driver as well as block Windows Update from reinstalling it. A shining example of a PIA "feature" in Windows 10. ;^)

Thanks for that. I suppose your multi-GPU set-up is a more complex configuration than my simple APU. Yes, it's hacky, but at least it's a solution. My understanding is that the hiding should still work after a new driver update comes along... but I suppose we can only see what happens when that driver is released.

For those of you complaining about Automatic downloads or driver updates, I do not completely understand your argument. The information is readily available to anyone;

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-hardware/how-to-disable-windows-update-from-auto-updating/8f5a50fd-403b-4207-bcf2-20cd32f4b1e9?auth=1

Jeff has already pointed out that this method does not block driver updates for his GPUs.
Soli Deo Gloria
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Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay?


 
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