Pluto is a Planet!

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Pluto is a Planet!
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 . . . 17 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile betreger
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 9549
Credit: 26,014,025
RAC: 22,411
United States
Message 1687546 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 1:48:15 UTC - in response to Message 1687526.  

Great read.
I would also say the the only reason we see chaos in these moons is our measurements and modeling power are not up to the scale of solving these observations using the Kepler model.
ID: 1687546 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 25654
Credit: 50,060,871
RAC: 22,867
United States
Message 1687562 - Posted: 4 Jun 2015, 3:40:52 UTC - in response to Message 1687546.  

Great read.
I would also say the the only reason we see chaos in these moons is our measurements and modeling power are not up to the scale of solving these observations using the Kepler model.

I think you misread it. It isn't the orbits of the moons that they were describing as chaotic (Kepler's law), but their rotation on their axis. Like our moon is tidally locked so one side faces earth, these moons can't lock because Pluto and Charon are orbiting each other, constantly shifting the center of mass and hence the point at which they could lock.

As to their orbits, three were described as in resonance, so they have settled down for long term. This isn't unexpected given the large mass difference between the small moons and Pluto / Charon. If they (Pluto / Charon / moons) were all about the same mass, the orbits would be chaotic enough to eject several.
ID: 1687562 · Report as offensive
Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 33874
Credit: 17,710,976
RAC: 7,337
Belgium
Message 1689759 - Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 11:58:46 UTC - in response to Message 1687491.  

Wanted to wait for an update. Julie & Glenn, your welcome.

Pluto's moons tumble in orbit, Hubble measurements reveal

Pluto’s moons have been tracked closely for the first time, showing that they tumble unpredictably rather than keeping one face fixed on their host planet.

Astronomers also observed that Pluto, whose status was downgraded to a dwarf planet in 2006, might be better regarded as a binary dwarf as it is locked in orbit with its largest moon, called Charon.

The twin system creates an imbalanced and shifting gravitational field, which sends the tiny outer moons spinning chaotically, the measurements from the Hubble space telescope showed.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/03/plutos-moons-have-chaotic-orbits-hubble-measurements-reveal


Might say that sounds about right as Charon's size is rather large compared to the size of Pluto.
rOZZ
Music
Pictures
ID: 1689759 · Report as offensive
Profile janneseti
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 1689795 - Posted: 10 Jun 2015, 14:03:01 UTC - in response to Message 1689759.  

Might say that sounds about right as Charon's size is rather large compared to the size of Pluto.

Charon and Pluto. What next? Hel:) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto#/media/File:Pluto_Charon_Moon_Earth_Comparison.png
ID: 1689795 · Report as offensive
Profile Lynn Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 13558
Credit: 66,384,617
RAC: 99,866
United States
Message 1694115 - Posted: 20 Jun 2015, 23:19:53 UTC - in response to Message 1689795.  

Fuzzy pictures. NASA not much better. In living color.


Pluto in Color: Movie Shows Dwarf Planet's Orbital Dance With Moon Charon

Pluto and its moon Charon have been captured in full color and, well, slightly jerky motion by NASA's New Horizons probe. At a distance of around 30 million miles (50 million kilometers), the duo are little more than a handful of pixels wide, but already the color and shape of each can be discerned, as well as the complex orbital dance they perform every week or so.

Because Charon is nearly an eighth of Pluto's mass, the two worlds are locked in an orbit around a shared center of gravity in space. They both rotate once every 6.4 Earth days. New Horizons is designed to study the particulars of that pattern and address many other questions about mysterious Pluto and its surroundings.

https://youtu.be/wrqjsM-QBY4
Color Video.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/pluto-color-movie-shows-dwarf-planets-orbital-dance-moon-charon-n378856
ID: 1694115 · Report as offensive
Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 33874
Credit: 17,710,976
RAC: 7,337
Belgium
Message 1694225 - Posted: 21 Jun 2015, 7:46:01 UTC

Thank you for the update, Lynn :)
rOZZ
Music
Pictures
ID: 1694225 · Report as offensive
Michael Watson

Send message
Joined: 7 Feb 08
Posts: 1119
Credit: 1,898,953
RAC: 956
Message 1694378 - Posted: 21 Jun 2015, 17:23:37 UTC

Both Earth and Pluto have large moons, in proportion to their own diameters, which lie notably close to their primaries. In both cases this seems to be the result of a primordial collision with another sizable body.
It is sometimes suggested that that such a large moon is necessary for a stably rotating planet that could foster complex life, and further, that the collisions that produce such moons are rare.
As we have two apparent examples of such moon-planet parings in our own solar system, I submit that, on this basis, the conditions favorable for advanced forms of life in the universe need not be rare.
ID: 1694378 · Report as offensive
Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 33874
Credit: 17,710,976
RAC: 7,337
Belgium
Message 1694513 - Posted: 22 Jun 2015, 6:11:03 UTC - in response to Message 1694378.  
Last modified: 22 Jun 2015, 6:12:14 UTC

Both Earth and Pluto have large moons, in proportion to their own diameters, which lie notably close to their primaries. In both cases this seems to be the result of a primordial collision with another sizable body.
It is sometimes suggested that that such a large moon is necessary for a stably rotating planet that could foster complex life, and further, that the collisions that produce such moons are rare.
As we have two apparent examples of such moon-planet parings in our own solar system, I submit that, on this basis, the conditions favorable for advanced forms of life in the universe need not be rare.


If we have two of these systems in our solar system only, and as there are a quintillion or even more solar systems in our universe, how can ETI be rare throughout the cosmos, I should wonder.
rOZZ
Music
Pictures
ID: 1694513 · Report as offensive
Profile Gone with the wind Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 41577
Credit: 41,999,167
RAC: 464
Message 1694537 - Posted: 22 Jun 2015, 8:45:48 UTC - in response to Message 1694513.  

If we have two of these systems in our solar system only, and as there are a quintillion or even more solar systems in our universe, how can ETI be rare throughout the cosmos, I should wonder.

You would be about right that statistically there probably is other life out there somewhere, and most people accept that. But given the sheer distances involved, millions & billions of light years, we and they are unlikely to know that each other exist.
ID: 1694537 · Report as offensive
Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 33874
Credit: 17,710,976
RAC: 7,337
Belgium
Message 1694538 - Posted: 22 Jun 2015, 8:48:29 UTC - in response to Message 1694537.  

If we have two of these systems in our solar system only, and as there are a quintillion or even more solar systems in our universe, how can ETI be rare throughout the cosmos, I should wonder.

You would be about right that statistically there probably is other life out there somewhere, and most people accept that. But given the sheer distances involved, millions & billions of light years, we and they are unlikely to know that each other exist.


I miscomprehended Michael's post. I thought he meant finding life would be rare, looked over the word 'not' oops
rOZZ
Music
Pictures
ID: 1694538 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 3138
Credit: 3,263,575
RAC: 5,138
United States
Message 1694561 - Posted: 22 Jun 2015, 12:03:19 UTC

Common, maybe. Accessible for us to go to, not very likely.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1694561 · Report as offensive
KLiK
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 31 Mar 14
Posts: 1298
Credit: 18,465,304
RAC: 16,067
Croatia
Message 1694631 - Posted: 22 Jun 2015, 17:01:22 UTC - in response to Message 1694378.  

Both Earth and Pluto have large moons, in proportion to their own diameters, which lie notably close to their primaries. In both cases this seems to be the result of a primordial collision with another sizable body.
It is sometimes suggested that that such a large moon is necessary for a stably rotating planet that could foster complex life, and further, that the collisions that produce such moons are rare.
As we have two apparent examples of such moon-planet parings in our own solar system, I submit that, on this basis, the conditions favorable for advanced forms of life in the universe need not be rare.

Neither Venus, nor Mars have a such large moons...though, they r still stable in their rotation! How so? :D
(rhetorical q)

non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU
ID: 1694631 · Report as offensive
Profile William Rothamel
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Oct 06
Posts: 3572
Credit: 1,807,476
RAC: 1,000
United States
Message 1694668 - Posted: 22 Jun 2015, 19:03:41 UTC - in response to Message 1694631.  

A stabilizing moon may just be one of perhaps two dozen conditions required for intelligent life to form and survive.
ID: 1694668 · Report as offensive
Profile Lynn Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 13558
Credit: 66,384,617
RAC: 99,866
United States
Message 1694709 - Posted: 22 Jun 2015, 22:48:20 UTC - in response to Message 1694668.  
Last modified: 22 Jun 2015, 22:53:34 UTC

New Images.

New from NASA's New Horizons: Increasing Variety on Pluto's Close Approach Hemisphere, and a 'Dark Pole' on Charon

NASA’s New Horizons spacecraft doesn’t pass Pluto until July 14 – but the mission team is making new discoveries as the piano-sized probe bears down on the Pluto system.

In a long series of images obtained by New Horizons’ telescopic Long Range Reconnaissance Imager (LORRI) May 29-June 19, Pluto and its largest moon, Charon, appear to more than double in size. From this rapidly improving imagery, scientists on the New Horizons team have found that the “close approach hemisphere” on Pluto that New Horizons will fly over has the greatest variety of terrain types seen on the planet so far. They have also discovered that Charon has a “dark pole” – a mysterious dark region that forms a kind of anti-polar cap.

"This system is just amazing," said Alan Stern, New Horizons Principal Investigator, from the Southwest Research Institute, Boulder, Colorado. "The science team is just ecstatic with what we see on Pluto’s close approach hemisphere: Every terrain type we see on the planet—including both the brightest and darkest surface areas —are represented there, it’s a wonderland!

"And about Charon—wow—I don’t think anyone expected Charon to reveal a mystery like dark terrains at its pole," he continued. "Who ordered that?"

https://youtu.be/navsfeb19vI
Video link.



NASA
ID: 1694709 · Report as offensive
KLiK
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 31 Mar 14
Posts: 1298
Credit: 18,465,304
RAC: 16,067
Croatia
Message 1694779 - Posted: 23 Jun 2015, 6:12:55 UTC - in response to Message 1694668.  

A stabilizing moon may just be one of perhaps two dozen conditions required for intelligent life to form and survive.

& u know that how?
how many star systems have u visited, to KNOW this!

or r u betting on 1/9 chances in this Solar system? ;)

non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU
ID: 1694779 · Report as offensive
Profile Gone with the wind Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 41577
Credit: 41,999,167
RAC: 464
Message 1694786 - Posted: 23 Jun 2015, 7:00:15 UTC

A stabilizing moon may just be one of perhaps two dozen conditions required for intelligent life to form and survive.

Without the moon we wouldn't have the tides, and the oceans wouldn't be as they are now. As we are supposed to have evolved from oceans onto dry land there may be something in that, although a bit tenuous at best I would have thought.

We are fairly sure now that life as we know it evolved on earth though amino acids and other building blocks, and for human beings the planet is in what we call the habitable zone. The habitable zone for ET's might be our Pluto or Uranus for all we know.

And that is the whole point isn't it, we just don't know, all we can do is to hypothesize upon the knowledge that we have, and the fact that all known life to us requires liquid water. But when we do so we fall into the trap of looking only for earth-like worlds where there might be ET's like us. Perhaps we should widen the search and look for places where giant slugs live in Methane oceans at -180C.

They might not build spaceships like we envisage them, but they might know some that do in their address book :-)
ID: 1694786 · Report as offensive
Profile Julie
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 Oct 09
Posts: 33874
Credit: 17,710,976
RAC: 7,337
Belgium
Message 1694814 - Posted: 23 Jun 2015, 9:14:06 UTC
Last modified: 23 Jun 2015, 9:15:41 UTC

Thanx for the update Lynn! 26 days, the countdown is running..
rOZZ
Music
Pictures
ID: 1694814 · Report as offensive
KLiK
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 31 Mar 14
Posts: 1298
Credit: 18,465,304
RAC: 16,067
Croatia
Message 1694819 - Posted: 23 Jun 2015, 9:58:52 UTC - in response to Message 1694786.  

A stabilizing moon may just be one of perhaps two dozen conditions required for intelligent life to form and survive.

Without the moon we wouldn't have the tides, and the oceans wouldn't be as they are now. As we are supposed to have evolved from oceans onto dry land there may be something in that, although a bit tenuous at best I would have thought.

We are fairly sure now that life as we know it evolved on earth though amino acids and other building blocks, and for human beings the planet is in what we call the habitable zone. The habitable zone for ET's might be our Pluto or Uranus for all we know.

And that is the whole point isn't it, we just don't know, all we can do is to hypothesize upon the knowledge that we have, and the fact that all known life to us requires liquid water. But when we do so we fall into the trap of looking only for earth-like worlds where there might be ET's like us. Perhaps we should widen the search and look for places where giant slugs live in Methane oceans at -180C.

They might not build spaceships like we envisage them, but they might know some that do in their address book :-)

& maybe we need to call them on +ZBX area code? :D

non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU
ID: 1694819 · Report as offensive
Profile Lynn Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 13558
Credit: 66,384,617
RAC: 99,866
United States
Message 1696068 - Posted: 26 Jun 2015, 23:07:27 UTC - in response to Message 1694819.  
Last modified: 26 Jun 2015, 23:09:29 UTC

Mysterious for now.

What Is Glittering at Pluto’s North Pole?

As the New Horizons spacecraft nears Pluto, more details are coming into view, and we are beginning to see surface features on the tiny world.
And that means we’ll see things that are … odd. Perhaps “as yet unexplained” is a better term, since we’re seeing these markings for the first time in human history. The press releases have been amazing, but the images released have been enlarged and processed in complex ways to bring out details.


Pictures of Pluto taken at 05:37:30 (left) and 30 seconds earlier (right), enlarged and contrast enhanced.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/06/25/pluto_north_pole_bright_spot_getting_clearer.html

@Julie, the countdown is running..
ID: 1696068 · Report as offensive
Profile Gone with the wind Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 41577
Credit: 41,999,167
RAC: 464
Message 1696163 - Posted: 27 Jun 2015, 6:59:45 UTC

And that means we’ll see things that are … odd. Perhaps “as yet unexplained” is a better term, since we’re seeing these markings for the first time in human history.

What we are "seeing" is definitely new to mankind that is for sure. But as I keep saying ad infinitum around here, they are not likely to be earthlike cities glowing in the night! However much those one can short of a six pack want them to be. It is more likely to be ice in the sunlight or similar. But we won't know more until we get closer.

In the meantime lets just allow all these conspiracy nuts to make fools of themselves for our amusement.
ID: 1696163 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 . . . 17 · Next

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Pluto is a Planet!


 
©2019 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.