Richard Dawkins says it would be immoral not to abort, others disagree. Downs

Richard Dawkins is a blatant sexist but more importantly, he's not a parent of someone with Down. He is in no position to tell people what to do or judge them afterwards. Really, telling people its immoral not to abort their baby is just as horrible as someone who tells people it is immoral to abort.

Is he not allowed to have an opinion?

The media outlets with an agenda to push immediately went out and found parents (largely mothers it appeared) with Down's babies to say that they loved their child and how dare Dawkins say he should have been aborted. As though Dawkins were proposing euthanising everyone with Down's. (Spoiler: he wasn't.)
None of them were asked how much harder their lives had become having to care for their disabled child. Also whether given the choice beforehand, would they not rather have a healthy child than a disabled one. (Which is what Dawkins was implying when he suggested "abort it and try again" on Twitter.)

I'm not a woman (as you may have noticed) but i think that if i were in that situation, faced with the choice between a long period caring for a disabled child, or an abortion at a time before it becomes a risky proposition, i would go for the abortion. Yes, it might be a bit distressing at the time, but less so than two decades of palliative care. But that's my opinion, i don't have personal experience and never will.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

We all seem to be wobbling a bit around the original issue of sex education. First of all, I think we all agree upon the importance of sex education at an early age, wherever it comes from. It is easier to get a message across to very young children if you liken it to items that they can identify with at their age. So animated cartoons and fruit do come into that category. I just didn't think that the Swedish attempt was very well done. But what do the kids think? Anyone asked them yet?

De-mystifying private parts instead of having a taboo about them is a good thing, but it also has to be realised that in adulthood, certain matters aren't discussed openly in polite company. And before anyone says it, I accept that it is likely a generation issue. I would be very surprised at any 11/12 boy buying contraception at a pharmacy, at that age they would be too embarrassed to deal with the woman behind the counter. Any teenage boy sensible enough to use contraception buys them from the machine in the gents toilet. Yes girls, we have machines in ours as well :-)

Es99 is muddying the waters playing the feminist card where she suggests that boys are expected to be a bit of a lad, but nice girls are expected not to. That is a separate issue to this one. Yes it takes two to become pregnant, and rightfully both should take equal responsibility for it. But in the real world if an unwanted pregnancy occurs, jack the lad can do a runner, it is the female that is left with the baby and possible birth. Mother nature decided that the woman would be the baby carrier not the man, woman = womb-man i.e. a man with a womb. So don't blame men for natures decision. In a parallel universe it could be the men having the babies.

Cue 99% of women wanting to go and live there !!!

Because of all that there seems this view in the world at large, that the onus on preventing unwanted pregnancies is left more to the woman than the man. I think that is wrong, but it is the way it is. How we change that is for another thread.

Oh and finally, I have replied to Es99 via PM regarding 11/12 year olds on the pill. The information that I have is strictly private and I am not willing to make it public.

I agree with you and I wouldn't be a bit surprised. But this Swedish attempt is just pathetic ....

Hardly more pathetic than having a banana and an orange teach children about stuff. Or cartoon ponies about the magic of friendship.

Furthermore, it normalizes private parts, rather than pushing them into a corner of shame and disgust. Its a body part, everyone has one, its nothing to be ashamed about. And as some Swedish critics point out, they could use it as a jump off point against gender norms and stereotypes, which would be nice.

+1

+2, and it seems there are people terrified to have the next generation informed.

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I agree with you and I wouldn't be a bit surprised. But this Swedish attempt is just pathetic ....

Hardly more pathetic than having a banana and an orange teach children about stuff. Or cartoon ponies about the magic of friendship.

Furthermore, it normalizes private parts, rather than pushing them into a corner of shame and disgust. Its a body part, everyone has one, its nothing to be ashamed about. And as some Swedish critics point out, they could use it as a jump off point against gender norms and stereotypes, which would be nice.

+1

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Reality Internet Personality

I agree with you and I wouldn't be a bit surprised. But this Swedish attempt is just pathetic ....

Hardly more pathetic than having a banana and an orange teach children about stuff. Or cartoon ponies about the magic of friendship.

Furthermore, it normalizes private parts, rather than pushing them into a corner of shame and disgust. Its a body part, everyone has one, its nothing to be ashamed about. And as some Swedish critics point out, they could use it as a jump off point against gender norms and stereotypes, which would be nice.

Great, we are on the same side for once :-))

You'd be terrifying surprised by how little teenagers know and how much misinformation they have. There is nothing wrong with starting with simple ideas when they are younger before its too late.

I agree with you and I wouldn't be a bit surprised. But this Swedish attempt is just pathetic ....

playground "education" is not education.

Of course it isn't, never has been, but that is all that most kids get. "If you jump up and down afterwards you won't get pregnant" etc etc. The other biggest problem is doctors. Every savvy 11/12 year old girl knows full well that when she starts menstruation all she has to do is go to the doctor, complain of dysmenorrhoea, whether she has it or not, and she'll get put on a mild birth control pill which is known to help. With of course the obvious side effect, and due to patient confidentiality her parents won't be told about it. STD i.e. Chlamydia is at epidemic proportions in the UK.

Seeing as the state (and society at large) pays for insufficient sex education in the long term it simply makes economic sense for the state to take on sex education.

Yes it does, but only because useless parents can't or won't do the proper job they are supposed to do in the first place. It is all treating the symptoms and not curing the root cause of the problem. But better that than nothing.

I agree. We do need to deal with the root cause, which is the Patriarchy which shames women for having sex.

11 and 12 year old girls going to the doctor for the pill is very rare. So I don't know why you'd even bring that up as an issue.

11 and 12 year olds getting pregnant through ignorance and/or abuse due is more of an issue. If its the father or other person the 11 or 12 year old knows doing it, then I somehow doubt the parents have her best interests at heart any way. Good that she can go to the Dr and maybe report what is happening.

Do we demand that pharmacists report when 11 or 12 year old boys go and obtain contraception? Maybe we should. Why is the focus always on girls and what they should or should not do? They aren't getting pregnant on their own.

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Reality Internet Personality

Great, we are on the same side for once :-))

You'd be terrifying surprised by how little teenagers know and how much misinformation they have. There is nothing wrong with starting with simple ideas when they are younger before its too late.

I agree with you and I wouldn't be a bit surprised. But this Swedish attempt is just pathetic ....

playground "education" is not education.

Of course it isn't, never has been, but that is all that most kids get. "If you jump up and down afterwards you won't get pregnant" etc etc. The other biggest problem is doctors. Every savvy 11/12 year old girl knows full well that when she starts menstruation all she has to do is go to the doctor, complain of dysmenorrhoea, whether she has it or not, and she'll get put on a mild birth control pill which is known to help. With of course the obvious side effect, and due to patient confidentiality her parents won't be told about it. STD i.e. Chlamydia is at epidemic proportions in the UK.

Seeing as the state (and society at large) pays for insufficient sex education in the long term it simply makes economic sense for the state to take on sex education.

Yes it does, but only because useless parents can't or won't do the proper job they are supposed to do in the first place. It is all treating the symptoms and not curing the root cause of the problem. But better that than nothing.

I have seen the video clip on Youtube. I thought it was a total waste of time and didn't achieve anything worthwhile that I could see. All little girls know that little boys have willies, all little boys know that little girls don't. When they get older they learn via playground "education" the reason for that. The only reason that video/program was made is because the vast majority of modern parents simply don't see it as their responsibility to teach their children sex education. Therefore the State feels that somehow they have to.

Don't shoot the messenger.

You'd be terrifying surprised by how little teenagers know and how much misinformation they have. There is nothing wrong with starting with simple ideas when they are younger before its too late.

playground "education" is not education.

Seeing as the state (and society at large) pays for insufficient sex education in the long term it simply makes economic sense for the state to take on sex education.

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Reality Internet Personality

I have seen the video clip on Youtube. I thought it was a total waste of time and didn't achieve anything worthwhile that I could see. All little girls know that little boys have willies, all little boys know that little girls don't. When they get older they learn via playground "education" the reason for that. The only reason that video/program was made is because the vast majority of modern parents simply don't see it as their responsibility to teach their children sex education. Therefore the State feels that somehow they have to.

Don't shoot the messenger.

As most understand: Progressivism = Stupidity.

What has that got to do with putting fake eyelashes and moustaches on genitalia?

Zero, but some people need to invent things to bitch at.

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/22/dancing-genitals-video-for-children-show-not-progressive-enough-for-some-swedes/

Programming director Peter Bargee said Thursday the clip also drew "unexpected" criticism from some Swedes, ... reinforced gender stereotypes.

Nature or Nurturing?

Males and Females, at the youngest age, as every parent knows, have differences.

Are many of our present problems due to Sexism? Of course.

Is much Natural? Of course

For The Progressives not to believe this is...

As most understand: Progressivism = Stupidity.

What has that got to do with putting fake eyelashes and moustaches on genitalia?

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Reality Internet Personality

Moving further East... One positive giant leap overturning old misogynistic 'tradition':


Egypt FGM trial 'convicts Raslan Fadl of manslaughter'

An Egyptian doctor has been convicted in a retrial of carrying out female genital mutilation (FGM) surgery...



All in our only one world,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/22/dancing-genitals-video-for-children-show-not-progressive-enough-for-some-swedes/

Programming director Peter Bargee said Thursday the clip also drew "unexpected" criticism from some Swedes, ... reinforced gender stereotypes.

Kajsa Peters, project manager for Bacillakuten and Barnkanalen.

Is it not sad that Snoppen has a mustache and Snippan have eyelashes? It is so clear that you are using prevailing gender norms and confuse sex with gender.

Yes, maybe so. We played with Snippan and Snoppen as characters. But perhaps more Snippor should had a mustache. It will be a sequel.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/22/dancing-genitals-video-for-children-show-not-progressive-enough-for-some-swedes/

Programming director Peter Bargee said Thursday the clip also drew "unexpected" criticism from some Swedes, ... reinforced gender stereotypes.

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Love Reading The Women standing up for The Women. Smooch-A-Thon.

Kiss On.

Yep

I want to point this post out so people can see misogyny in action and just how pervasive it is.

Here Gubba is suggesting that someone Chris is like a woman,

Gubba thinks calling someone feminine is an insult. Gubba thinks that being feminine is a bad thing.

I am sure you can all think of many examples where alluding to someone being a woman or female is used to insult and put down.

This is how society indoctrinates us into ascribing more worth to one gender than another.

I am not going to remove Gubba's post because I do not think being called feminine is an insult.

Patriarchal society does men a great disservice when it forces men to deny their "feminine" qualities.

Or Women to deny their "masculine" qualities.

Indeed.

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Reality Internet Personality

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/25/ruby-tuesday-discriminates-against-male-employees-federal-lawsuit-claims/

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OK, clear the decks!
Time for a genuine celttooth rant.....

"With all the problems in the world to-day,
sliming people male or female for what
they are, is just as bad as sliming people
for what they are not!"
I wish people would remember that sometimes.

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I Have Nicely Shaped and Nice Sized Man Boobies.

...

Apparently too much beer or potato chips can do that.

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Reality Internet Personality

I was just askin'...

Seems to me there is a lot of stuff you
ladies are missing in the way of funny....
Just sayin'....



(Just think of all the things we don't know about
each other due to the restrictions of the web?)

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