I'm going to ask that further posts about general issues with education, go over in the education related thread http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=73804 If it racial related, and not union carping then it may be on topic here, e.g. how a black ghetto school is different than a white rich area school.

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Interesting thinking.

Government Schools may get worse. Therefore...

Interesting thinking. I tell you what actually happens where this has been done and you replace 'will' with 'may'.

Screw those who wish to succeed.

Nope, it seems that you support screwing everyone.

As I have said repeatedly: It is The Left's 'Thinking', and 'Solutions, which are the problem.

As I have said, where The Right's solutions have been put into practice, misery and inequality have ensued.

Regarding Teachers Unions, from this 10000% Pro-Union person:

Many have degenerated into only Job Security/Pay Raise Unions. Not Pro-Student.

That is the sad fact.

That is a lie. It is not a fact. This coming from someone who has been in more than one teacher's union and knows the lies that are told about us by those with an agenda. You should do some actual thinking and stop swallowing wholesale the BS because you like the sound of it so much.

Highly Educated, does not, and never has, meant Ethical.

However, people generally go into teaching because they are ethical. Those that aren't ethical and are highly educated will go elsewhere to a job with more money and more status and less people lining up to blame the ills of society on you. One where you won't constantly be called greedy for wanting to be paid on level that matches the importance and skill of your profession. (BTW, I don't know what you think the average teacher earns, but if the unions are working so hard to makes us rich they are doing a sh*t job of it.)

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Reality Internet Personality

Here is the article "Chaos in Kos"
300 asylum seekers arrive a DAY... with migrants blaming 'incompetent' Greek officials for island situation
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3100743/Chaos-Kos-300-migrants-arrive-DAY-turn-incompetent-Greek-officials-holidaymakers-misery.html
Boat people - some fleeing ISIS in Syria and Afghanistan - are holed up in an abandoned hotel with no running water or toilets

Another, Jihad Naif, from Raqqa, in Syria, added: ‘We had to pay the traffickers $1,000 to come here on the boat. It was very dangerous.
'Why doesn’t Greece let us pay them $1,000 to come here safely and give us a place to stay.
'I don't want to stay in Greece but we are stuck here until we get the papers that mean we can go on the boat to Athens. Then we will go by land to Germany or Austria.'

Refugee disasters in the Mediterranean.
British tourists on the Greek island of Kos describes the holiday in the sun as a "disgusting hell," writes the Daily Mail. The reason is the boat people who arrived to the island, living on the streets, who are breast feeding their babies sitting on the sidewalk and sitting outside restaurants where tourists eat dinner.
- It is uncomfortable. I do not want to eat when someone is sitting and watching, says the tourists Anne and Tony Servante to the newspaper, noting that they do not intend to go back to Kos next year. It resembles too much a refugee camp, they say.
The article has received heavy criticism, especially on Twitter, where the reporter behind the article had to defend herself by saying that she did not choose the title and that she can not be held responsible for the opinions expressed by the interviewees express.

It gets overused a lot but I think it applies very much to these two tourists: Check your privilege.

Refugee disasters in the Mediterranean.
British tourists on the Greek island of Kos describes the holiday in the sun as a "disgusting hell," writes the Daily Mail. The reason is the boat people who arrived to the island, living on the streets, who are breast feeding their babies sitting on the sidewalk and sitting outside restaurants where tourists eat dinner.
- It is uncomfortable. I do not want to eat when someone is sitting and watching, says the tourists Anne and Tony Servante to the newspaper, noting that they do not intend to go back to Kos next year. It resembles too much a refugee camp, they say.
The article has received heavy criticism, especially on Twitter, where the reporter behind the article had to defend herself by saying that she did not choose the title and that she can not be held responsible for the opinions expressed by the interviewees express.

I think when a cop can jump on the hood of a car and shott 14 rounds through it on unarmed folks and walk is BS. Why was this not a jury trial?
This case stinks to high heaven.

It wasn't a jury trial because the cop didn't ask for a jury trial. Likely a very smart lawyer. Yes, a jury would have hung him, but a judge, lawyer, would have precisely followed the logic of the law, no matter how perverted the result.

It still highlights some very bad flaws in the system/s over there sadly that don't go down well with the majority (either there or OS). :-(

Thankfully I live where I do.

+10000

A system that's let's the accused have a choice in the trial you have , where someone has died !!!....something very wrong there .

Defendant is given the right to ask for a jury. The prosecution can not demand one. The right rests with the defendant, who is presumed innocent. I know in other countries you are presumed guilty until proved innocent.

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I think when a cop can jump on the hood of a car and shott 14 rounds through it on unarmed folks and walk is BS. Why was this not a jury trial?
This case stinks to high heaven.

It wasn't a jury trial because the cop didn't ask for a jury trial. Likely a very smart lawyer. Yes, a jury would have hung him, but a judge, lawyer, would have precisely followed the logic of the law, no matter how perverted the result.

It still highlights some very bad flaws in the system/s over there sadly that don't go down well with the majority (either there or OS). :-(

Thankfully I live where I do.

+10000

A system that's let's the accused have a choice in the trial you have , where someone has died !!!....something very wrong there .

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Sorry, I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that there is no racism because they were racist against Chinese as well?

No, I'm telling you that the blacks benefited from the racism against the Chinese [and others], perhaps not as much as whites, but more than zero.

OBW, the first panel, actually the first four panels, are also about the Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese and Filipino exclusion and controls on Irish, Italians, Jews and other "undesirables."

The history of the USA is not so black and white as some want to make it out to be.

No one is suggesting it is just black and white.

I'm really not understanding why you think black people in particular benefited from racism against Chinese people. Did racism against black people stop or something just because another group was being treated badly?

First sentence? Doubt that's what he means, but perhaps.
Second paragraph? I think he means sometimes others got it even worse than Blacks did. Whether that assessment is correct can be debated, but I think this is Gary's meaning. But, to me, racism is racism and the degree of racism doesn't change that it's racism.

1) Correct. Simply pointing out that blacks do not have an exclusive claim, and showing the possibility that they did benefit from other groups being held back.
2) Timing, not necessarily intensity. A lot of this government racism by law happened well after the blacks were free and technically had rights. I'll let you decide if Roosevelt's incarceration order was intense or California not giving them personal property rights some decades earlier. Unfortunately this is not well known almost to the point of obscurity.

And benefit is the key word in the strip.

So if we use the same metric, as Asians were held back, in relation to blacks for a time period in the USA, the suit by them against Harvard over the preference policy is as valid as the reason for the preference policy is to give blacks preference over whites. I'll leave it to others to say to what degree (or intensity.)

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Sorry, I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that there is no racism because they were racist against Chinese as well?

No, I'm telling you that the blacks benefited from the racism against the Chinese [and others], perhaps not as much as whites, but more than zero.

OBW, the first panel, actually the first four panels, are also about the Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese and Filipino exclusion and controls on Irish, Italians, Jews and other "undesirables."

The history of the USA is not so black and white as some want to make it out to be.

No one is suggesting it is just black and white.

I'm really not understanding why you think black people in particular benefited from racism against Chinese people. Did racism against black people stop or something just because another group was being treated badly?

First sentence? Doubt that's what he means, but perhaps.
Second paragraph? I think he means sometimes others got it even worse than Blacks did. Whether that assessment is correct can be debated, but I think this is Gary's meaning. But, to me, racism is racism and the degree of racism doesn't change that it's racism.

‘Whiteness gets nuance and blackness doesn’t’

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Reality Internet Personality

What you get is those parents that can and are able to chose take their kids out of the government funded schools. Those school go in a downward spiral and become sink schools. For example, if there is a good school, the house prices are driven up as parents that can afford it move to be close to those schools, thus driving out of the area the very children you think you are trying to help.

Ah, poverty, not skin color ......

...and we've already pointed out how your skin colour is more likely to ensure you stay poor because of racism.

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Reality Internet Personality

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that there is no racism because they were racist against Chinese as well?

No, I'm telling you that the blacks benefited from the racism against the Chinese [and others], perhaps not as much as whites, but more than zero.

OBW, the first panel, actually the first four panels, are also about the Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese and Filipino exclusion and controls on Irish, Italians, Jews and other "undesirables."

The history of the USA is not so black and white as some want to make it out to be.

No one is suggesting it is just black and white.

I'm really not understanding why you think black people in particular benefited from racism against Chinese people. Did racism against black people stop or something just because another group was being treated badly?

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Reality Internet Personality

I think when a cop can jump on the hood of a car and shott 14 rounds through it on unarmed folks and walk is BS. Why was this not a jury trial?
This case stinks to high heaven.

It wasn't a jury trial because the cop didn't ask for a jury trial. Likely a very smart lawyer. Yes, a jury would have hung him, but a judge, lawyer, would have precisely followed the logic of the law, no matter how perverted the result.

It still highlights some very bad flaws in the system/s over there sadly that don't go down well with the majority (either there or OS). :-(

Thankfully I live where I do.

Cheers.

What you get is those parents that can and are able to chose take their kids out of the government funded schools. Those school go in a downward spiral and become sink schools. For example, if there is a good school, the house prices are driven up as parents that can afford it move to be close to those schools, thus driving out of the area the very children you think you are trying to help.

Ah, poverty, not skin color ......

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Sorry, I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that there is no racism because they were racist against Chinese as well?

No, I'm telling you that the blacks benefited from the racism against the Chinese [and others], perhaps not as much as whites, but more than zero.

OBW, the first panel, actually the first four panels, are also about the Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese and Filipino exclusion and controls on Irish, Italians, Jews and other "undesirables."

The history of the USA is not so black and white as some want to make it out to be.

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...

Interestingly, the Democrats are against 'School Choice'. Where inner city (poor and black) would be able to have better (non-public) schools, with taxpayer assistance. The 'other party' is for this...

If you are actually interested why 'school choice' as you call it is not a solution then you will be interested to know that school choice makes the problem worse.

What you get is those parents that can and are able to chose take their kids out of the government funded schools. Those school go in a downward spiral and become sink schools. For example, if there is a good school, the house prices are driven up as parents that can afford it move to be close to those schools, thus driving out of the area the very children you think you are trying to help.

I am afraid that it is shown that public schools are often much better than non-public schools. When schools are run for profit motive and those profits depend on school scores they do things like refuse to admit special needs pupils, refuse to enter students into exams that they won't get good grades in because it will make the school look bad, they select for the brightest students which makes the problem for the other local schools worse.

I've directly seen the effect on 'school choice' directly, and trust me, it is not a fix for anything.

One thing about teacher's unions is that they are made up of teachers. Teachers are usually very smart and well educated. They are also very dedicated to what is best for their students. If teachers unions are against something, you really should take notice.

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Reality Internet Personality

I think when a cop can jump on the hood of a car and shott 14 rounds through it on unarmed folks and walk is BS. Why was this not a jury trial?
This case stinks to high heaven.

It wasn't a jury trial because the cop didn't ask for a jury trial. Likely a very smart lawyer. Yes, a jury would have hung him, but a judge, lawyer, would have precisely followed the logic of the law, no matter how perverted the result.

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I think when a cop can jump on the hood of a car and shott 14 rounds through it on unarmed folks and walk is BS. Why was this not a jury trial?
This case stinks to high heaven.

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[/quote]

Old James

Trust me, you do not want to know what my last proposed post was, and which I composed, I just deleted.

When the subject actually turns around from infighting among posters and discussion about racism, I may return.

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"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/05/16/asian-americans-file-complaint-alleging-discrimination-in-harvard-admissions/

Yep, blacks never benefited, despite 1882 to 1965 of them being given some legal preference over Chinese.
In case you were wondering, yes lynching http://www.laweekly.com/news/how-los-angeles-covered-up-the-massacre-of-17-chinese-2169478

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that there is no racism because they were racist against Chinese as well?

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Reality Internet Personality