Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects and Politics: DENIAL (#4)

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Message 1626524 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 19:45:06 UTC - in response to Message 1626452.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015, 19:45:37 UTC

... Wondered who would be the first with Unthinking Insults...

Descending into such silliness shows the discussion and argument to be lost. Also shows complete lack of any understanding. Such are wars made...

Can we keep this all to real-world FACTs and keep away from the ad hominem silliness?


All on our only one world that we make for ourselves...
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Message 1626530 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 20:06:59 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015, 20:16:47 UTC

We have Clyde on here with apparent unwavering any/all of trolling, disinformation, disbelief, blinkered blindness, selfishness, or outright paid up shill-ing...

And then we have the industrial strength disinformation campaign ongoing that is being wrought against our Earth and us all. Judge for yourself:


$548 Billion In Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies “Rig The Game” Against Renewables

In the same week that a new study found that G20 nations, including Australia, were providing $US88 billion ($A102 billion) a year in subsidies just for fossil fuel exploration, another report – this time from the highly conservative International Energy Agency – has put a number to the global value of subsidies that artificially lowered end-use prices for all forms of fossil energy in 2013: $US548 billion...


Global Warming Skeptic Organizations

An overwhelming majority of scientists agree — global warming is happening and human activity is the primary cause. Yet several prominent global warming skeptic organizations are actively working to sow doubt about the facts of global warming.

These organizations play a key role in the fossil fuel industry's "disinformation playbook," a strategy designed to confuse the public about global warming and delay action on climate change. Why? Because the fossil fuel industry wants to sell more coal, oil, and gas — even though the science clearly shows that the resulting carbon emissions threaten our planet.

Who are these groups? And what is the evidence linking them to the fossil fuel industry?...



Denial & disinformation

... managing editor Bill Sammon imposed an order on Fox News journalists to cast doubt on climate change...

... Everyone relax, Sarah Palin has proven there's no such thing as climate change...

... Part of what is going on is an information war. $8 trillion can buy you a lot of information, and can help you spread a lot of misinformation...



Will Fossil Fuel Companies Face Liability for Climate Change and Their Disinformation Campaign?

... These organizations and their supporters say they are just funding their own independent studies of climate change science. Yet these studies almost all go against observable scientific data to question global warming – so much so that one study funded in part by the Kochs that confirmed a rise in average world land temperature was regarded as an anomaly. Which raises the question: if these studies are largely designed not to shed light on climate change, but to create doubt and confusion to delay greenhouse gas regulations, why is it legal, and do those deliberately spreading misinformation face liability?...


"Dark Money" Funds Climate Change Denial Effort

The largest, most-consistent money fueling the climate denial movement are a number of well-funded conservative foundations built with so-called "dark money," or concealed donations...


The Disinformation Campaigns of Big Coal -- A Short History
Origins of Fossil Fuel Disinformation Campaigns


From the 1991 "Ice Campaign" run by the coal and utility industries to the Marshall Institute's bogus "Study" of 1998 (which was designed to resemble a National Academy of Sciences document) to the recent efforts of ExxonMobil and Peabody Energy to eviscerate efforts to address the climate crisis, in tandem with the Bush White House, the fossil fuel lobby and its ideological supporters have waged a relentless campaign of deception and disinformation to confuse people about the reality of warming-driven climate change...


Attacks on Renewable Energy Policy by Fossil Fuel Interests 2013-2014

Fossil fuel and utility interests, concerned about the rise of cheap clean energy, are financing attacks on pro-clean energy policies in an effort to delay the growth of their competition in the marketplace. The Koch Brothers and their allies want to continue selling as much coal, oil, and gas as possible - and in their effort to rollback clean energy policies, are spreading falsehoods about the energy market.

This report documents how and where...

... The price of a solar panel has dropped more than 60% since early 2011, and the price of wind power is down by more than 50% in the past four years. Approximately 29% of the power added in 2013 in the United States was solar energy.

But, special interests tied to the fossil fuel and utility industries are spreading disinformation about the cost of clean energy...



Fossil fuel companies grow nervous as divestment movement grows stronger

Though fossil fuel companies may wave their hands dismissively at the divestment movement, some nervous actions of late show more concern than they let on. ...


Try fossil fuel CEOs for crimes against humanity, NASA scientist says

One of the world's top climate experts says chief executives of big fossil fuel companies should be tried for crimes against humanity for their role in spreading disinformation...




And there is lots more!

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Message 1626532 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 20:14:41 UTC - in response to Message 1626530.  

And if that little lot is to much of a gulp for Denial... Then might this little chart help?





And if you want to be entertained further, try:

John Oliver's viral video: the best climate debate you'll ever see

The new HBO comedy show Last Week Tonight with John Oliver recently made a mockery of media false balance in its climate science coverage. Oliver was interviewed on the science podcast Inquiring Minds last week...


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Message 1626539 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 20:29:45 UTC

And for those still in denial, please explain off these recent consequences:


(All quite a howler that turned my locality into a Mary Celeste for a while.)


Thousands remain without power after storms

... A total of 32,000 Scottish and Southern Energy (SSE) customers in the north and 1,500 supplied by Scottish Power further south of the country are affected. SSE said engineers worked through the night to try to restore power to homes.

Heavy snowfalls and ice overnight have made some roads impassable and access to the network difficult...

... The bad weather has toppled power lines and uprooted trees and on Friday caused the suspension of all ScotRail trains, although some limited services later resumed...

... Eleven catering stations have been set up where people can get a hot meal...

... A gust of 140mph was recorded at the summit of Cairngorm and the BBC Winterwatch studio, in a cabin on the Mar Lodge Estate in the Cairngorms, was destroyed by the winds.



Gales cause damage and disruption across Wales

Gales have caused damage and disruption to travel and power supplies with a large number of trees blown down.

Western Power Distribution says power has been restored to most customers after 500 homes were affected in 13 separate incidents across Wales...

... About 2,000 homes were left without power on Friday night at Gilwern, near Abergavenny, Monmouthshire.

And three children were injured when a tree was blown on to a bus carrying school pupils in Pontypool on Friday.



Contrasting with:

Unusual number of UK flowers bloom

Botanists have been stunned by the results of their annual hunt for plants in flower on New Year’s Day. They say according to textbooks there should be between 20 and 30 species in flower. This year there were 368 in bloom...

... The Met Office has confirmed 2014 as the warmest year on UK record, with the wettest winter and the hottest Halloween. It is also the warmest year in the Met Office’s Central England Temperature series, which dates to 1659.

Their blog said: “Human influence on the climate is likely to have substantially increased the chance of breaking the UK and CET temperature records. Estimates from the Met Office suggest that it has become about 10 times more likely for the UK record to be broken as a result of human influence on the climate.”...




Expensive stuff... And that is becoming ever more common...

Really all just 'natural'?...


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Message 1626541 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 20:33:04 UTC

Extreme Weather Displaces Far More People Than War — And It's Getting Worse
Experts warn that governments need to prepare themselves for a growing and often overwhelming influx of migrants. The displaced won't be fleeing the horrors of the battlefield, they said, but environmental disasters, made more frequent and severe by climate change.
https://news.vice.com/article/extreme-weather-displaces-far-more-people-than-war-and-its-getting-worse
Where will all people go?
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Message 1626567 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 21:37:57 UTC

WOWSA! Yu See Dat INDUSTRIAL SIZED POST by 1 and Only? Heeba Habba! HuWoMan O Live. 1 and Only Must Be FEELING The PRESSURE. DEM 'FACTS' makes An Old Cool Lava Rockin' Head Swim. Dr. HOHUM, Knows How 'it' Feels, being Pressured. heeeheeeheee. Oh Yeah, 'FACTS' DENIED

HOHUM. Beatin' Dat HUGE POST DRum DRum to Get The 'FACTS' Out.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1626727 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 8:34:48 UTC - in response to Message 1626692.  

I cannot trust the Predications of the same Scientists, who have been incorrect regarding their predictions of the amount of Global Warming, over the last 15 years

Clyde but they have been mostly correct.

They have?

Where have they been correct for 1995, 2000, 2005, 2010, 2014?

Clyde why are you convoluting weather with climate change? What is your underlying motive?
As for being correct the frequency and size of major weather disturbances, things like the "polar vortexs", ocean acidification I became aware of over 15 years ago. To correct one of your assertions 2014 was the warmest year on record and it was not an El Nino year, that's impressive!

You're confusing the two.

I am not speaking of Weather, but of predictions, brought up by another Poster.

My question was this -

If certain Scientists, and Organizations, made specific predictions, regarding Global Warming, and they proved incorrect:

Are their assumptions, models, science, incorrect. As happened in the past, will happen in the future, and may be happening now. Perhaps the assumption regarding causation is incorrect. This also would not be the first time.

If they are, or at least may be incorrect: I would not trust any predictions they make regarding future changes.

Perhaps the truth is less severe, or perhaps more severe.

This is not to refute Climate Change.

I really don't understand, why asking questions, has certain posters calling others names, insulting them, and refusing to answer simple questions.

As I Posted many times: These Unthinking, and worse, name callers, are destroying their arguments.

You quoted specific years, therefore you were talking about weather.

Climate deals with long periods, the shortest is usually 30 years.

Now get your thinking straight, if you want to talk about weather then open another thread, this thread is about the long term Climate Change.
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Message 1626782 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 14:51:22 UTC - in response to Message 1626780.  
Last modified: 12 Jan 2015, 14:53:19 UTC

... If certain Scientists, and Organizations, predict a Temperature Rise, for those years, and are incorrect...

So... You're playing the troll game of absolutes, ignoring reality, and no quoting of any facts whatsoever.

All with added deliberate confusion between the words weather, climate, global, local, and average and probability.


I do hope the rest of the American education system is somehow better than what we see on this thread! Or is that all a part of the game of playing troll?

Instead, care to start on any one verifiable fact that is relevant that we can all agree upon?...


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Message 1626784 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 14:56:09 UTC - in response to Message 1626783.  
Last modified: 12 Jan 2015, 14:56:32 UTC

... I rest my case.

Noted for how you edit your quoting...

No useful discussion with you. Time to move on.


And still we pollute our world on an industrial scale unabated...

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Message 1626785 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 15:07:17 UTC - in response to Message 1626780.  

But those scientist who predict what a particular year is going to do are NOT the scientists studying climate change. Climate change scientists, if pushed, might give you a prediction that the average World Wide temperature will be higher for this period than the last period.

And the amount of change due to climate prediction in any small area is most certainly overwhelmed by normal weather differences from year to year.

If the temperature change due to climate change is 5 degrees C per century then the average change per year is 0.05 degrees per year.

If the increase is that then how much of a difference will that make to your local weather forecast for any particular day/week/month/year. NIL.
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Message 1626808 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 16:47:36 UTC - in response to Message 1626795.  
Last modified: 12 Jan 2015, 16:57:40 UTC

... Just repeating my question:

If the Past Predictions were incorrect...

Question: Why do you refuse to discuss this, and 'Move On'?

Answer: ...

Just more of your FUD and UFO conspiracy theory and denial of the world around you.

And a fool can ask more questions than are useful to answer.


To get real, can you try a new start? See: The Real Climate

[edit]

A shorter more readable list can be found on New Scientist: Climate change: A guide for the perplexed

[/edit]


All on our only one planet,
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ps: And these forums really do need proper "added later edit tags"!
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Message 1626846 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 19:19:43 UTC - in response to Message 1626821.  

... Just repeating my question:

If the Past Predictions were incorrect...

Question: Why do you refuse to discuss this, and 'Move On'?

Answer: ...

Just more of your FUD and UFO conspiracy theory and denial of the world around you.

ML1...

Thought you were just a silly, little, Left Wing Ideologue.

I was wrong.

You're living in a Conspiratorial Fantasy World. Where those asking questions, you TRULY believe, are UFO Freaks, FUD, Denier's, etc.

These Forum's are not the place to resolve YOUR Problems.

Hope you get the help you need.

Clyde,

Knock it off.

You are the one living in the Conspiratorial Fantasy World. Climate deniers are on the wrong side of history on this one and unfortunately the stakes are too high for us to indulge you.
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Message 1626887 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 22:03:03 UTC

...for us to indulge you


99 Percent of The World's Population Don't Believe and Don't Give A SHAT 'bout Climate 'Change'. So, INDULGING 'is' What You Are Left Doing. Like 'it' or Not. 'Cause CONVINCING 'is' Not Ever Going To Happen.

I'm Convinced I'm The Best Looking Screaming Tree in Da Forest. Way Better Looking than Screaming Ted Look-a-Like.

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1626900 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 22:22:33 UTC - in response to Message 1626821.  

You're living in a Conspiratorial Fantasy World. Where those asking questions, you TRULY believe, are UFO Freaks, FUD, Denier's, etc.


try looking in the mirror

another case of the kettle calling the pot black
just saying words are cheap
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Message 1626929 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 23:55:41 UTC - in response to Message 1626532.  

... And if you want to be entertained further, try:

John Oliver's viral video: the best climate debate you'll ever see

The new HBO comedy show Last Week Tonight with John Oliver recently made a mockery of media false balance in its climate science coverage. Oliver was interviewed on the science podcast Inquiring Minds last week...


A little something to try to unravel the FUD and word games... Enjoy the vid!


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Message 1627735 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 0:28:50 UTC - in response to Message 1627708.  
Last modified: 15 Jan 2015, 0:29:22 UTC

STUDY: Volcanoes cooling Earth...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2906874/Volcanoes-cooling-Earth-Aerosols-small-eruptions-reduced-global-temperatures-tropical-rainfall.html

Interesting.

Perhaps ONE of the reasons the Climate Prediction Models have been incorrect since 1998.

Partially but much too small an effect to counterbalance how we are industrially polluting our own atmosphere with CO2.

Yes, we really do far exceed even the worse of what present day volcanoes contribute.


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Message 1627750 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 1:38:33 UTC - in response to Message 1627744.  

Clyde betting on volcanoes isn't gona do it in the intermediate term much less the long term.
To quote the article
The UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change last year concluded that the deep oceans had been responsible for absorbing an increasing amount of heat, but warned that this could not continue indefinitely.


As that gets warmed up all hell is going to break loose
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Message 1627758 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 1:54:13 UTC - in response to Message 1627750.  
Last modified: 15 Jan 2015, 1:58:47 UTC

Clyde betting on volcanoes isn't gona do it in the intermediate term much less the long term.
To quote the article
The UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change last year concluded that the deep oceans had been responsible for absorbing an increasing amount of heat, but warned that this could not continue indefinitely.


As that gets warmed up all hell is going to break loose

Indeed so and the oceans are still thermally expanding right throughout the so called 'hiatus' period.

See: A new sea level curve


Meanwhile, going back to the Daily Mail sensationalism and celeb mammary glands and old unreferenced graphs:

There is indeed a healthy reappraisal of volcanic aerosol effects for the last century, with this new one paper reporting:

The “warming hiatus” that has occurred over the last 15 years has been caused in part by small volcanic eruptions.

Scientists have long known that volcanoes cool the atmosphere because of the sulfur dioxide...

... Previous research suggested that early 21st-century eruptions might explain up to a third of the recent warming hiatus...

... Ridley and colleagues found the missing piece of the puzzle at the intersection of two atmospheric layers, the stratosphere and the troposphere... Ridley and colleagues combined observations from ground-, air- and space-based instruments to better observe aerosols in the lower portion of the stratosphere. They used these improved estimates of total volcanic aerosols in a simple climate model, and estimated that volcanoes may have caused cooling [contribution] of 0.05 degrees to 0.12 degrees Celsius since 2000. ...



So... That suggests that they have found an additional layer in the atmosphere where volcanic emissions reflect sunlight back out to space and so the recent cooling effect from volcanoes can be expected to be greater than the so far expected 1/3rd contribution of effects.

That doesn't change what we are observing and measuring or for how we are industrially polluting our atmosphere towards an untimely hell.

What this does mean is that once the effects of recent volcanic eruptions clear, we are going to suffer even more rapid and greater warming than originally feared.


So prey to your Vulcan gods for more sun-reflective volcanic eruptions? But not too big! And not too acidic or violent so as to not do too much damage!!


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Message 1627761 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 2:04:31 UTC - in response to Message 1627758.  

What this does mean is that once the effects of recent volcanic eruptions clear, we are going to suffer even more rapid and greater warming than originally feared.

Yes, the math is irrefutable, 50 years ago I took those classes and passed, math does not intimidate me, it is very logical.
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Message 1627785 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 4:21:57 UTC - in response to Message 1627708.  

Yes Clyde and if your add ocean Absorption , orbit , progression and the current Maunder Minimum period the sun is going through then your right and why there has been a slowing of the temp .

However it's still not going to be enough unless we stop pumping Co2

Orbit and progression we can't do anything about and will take a long time
Volcanoes come and go and we can't do anything about them and effects are normally only short 3-10 yrs max
The sun can change quickly and although we can't stop it it is the 1 that will be very bad when it returns back to normal in a few decades on on the next cycle

It will still come down to how much Co2 and we must stop that now we do not have very long 65 yrs max before really bad effects on humans will be seen and even less if we don't at least stop the increase in output
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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects and Politics: DENIAL (#4)


 
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