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Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects and Politics: DENIAL (#4)
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... Wondered who would be the first with Unthinking Insults... Descending into such silliness shows the discussion and argument to be lost. Also shows complete lack of any understanding. Such are wars made... Can we keep this all to real-world FACTs and keep away from the ad hominem silliness? All on our only one world that we make for ourselves... Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
We have Clyde on here with apparent unwavering any/all of trolling, disinformation, disbelief, blinkered blindness, selfishness, or outright paid up shill-ing... And then we have the industrial strength disinformation campaign ongoing that is being wrought against our Earth and us all. Judge for yourself: $548 Billion In Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies “Rig The Game†Against Renewables In the same week that a new study found that G20 nations, including Australia, were providing $US88 billion ($A102 billion) a year in subsidies just for fossil fuel exploration, another report – this time from the highly conservative International Energy Agency – has put a number to the global value of subsidies that artificially lowered end-use prices for all forms of fossil energy in 2013: $US548 billion... Global Warming Skeptic Organizations An overwhelming majority of scientists agree — global warming is happening and human activity is the primary cause. Yet several prominent global warming skeptic organizations are actively working to sow doubt about the facts of global warming. These organizations play a key role in the fossil fuel industry's "disinformation playbook," a strategy designed to confuse the public about global warming and delay action on climate change. Why? Because the fossil fuel industry wants to sell more coal, oil, and gas — even though the science clearly shows that the resulting carbon emissions threaten our planet. Who are these groups? And what is the evidence linking them to the fossil fuel industry?... Denial & disinformation ... managing editor Bill Sammon imposed an order on Fox News journalists to cast doubt on climate change... ... Everyone relax, Sarah Palin has proven there's no such thing as climate change... ... Part of what is going on is an information war. $8 trillion can buy you a lot of information, and can help you spread a lot of misinformation... Will Fossil Fuel Companies Face Liability for Climate Change and Their Disinformation Campaign? ... These organizations and their supporters say they are just funding their own independent studies of climate change science. Yet these studies almost all go against observable scientific data to question global warming – so much so that one study funded in part by the Kochs that confirmed a rise in average world land temperature was regarded as an anomaly. Which raises the question: if these studies are largely designed not to shed light on climate change, but to create doubt and confusion to delay greenhouse gas regulations, why is it legal, and do those deliberately spreading misinformation face liability?... "Dark Money" Funds Climate Change Denial Effort The largest, most-consistent money fueling the climate denial movement are a number of well-funded conservative foundations built with so-called "dark money," or concealed donations... The Disinformation Campaigns of Big Coal -- A Short History Origins of Fossil Fuel Disinformation Campaigns From the 1991 "Ice Campaign" run by the coal and utility industries to the Marshall Institute's bogus "Study" of 1998 (which was designed to resemble a National Academy of Sciences document) to the recent efforts of ExxonMobil and Peabody Energy to eviscerate efforts to address the climate crisis, in tandem with the Bush White House, the fossil fuel lobby and its ideological supporters have waged a relentless campaign of deception and disinformation to confuse people about the reality of warming-driven climate change... Attacks on Renewable Energy Policy by Fossil Fuel Interests 2013-2014 Fossil fuel and utility interests, concerned about the rise of cheap clean energy, are financing attacks on pro-clean energy policies in an effort to delay the growth of their competition in the marketplace. The Koch Brothers and their allies want to continue selling as much coal, oil, and gas as possible - and in their effort to rollback clean energy policies, are spreading falsehoods about the energy market. This report documents how and where... ... The price of a solar panel has dropped more than 60% since early 2011, and the price of wind power is down by more than 50% in the past four years. Approximately 29% of the power added in 2013 in the United States was solar energy. But, special interests tied to the fossil fuel and utility industries are spreading disinformation about the cost of clean energy... Fossil fuel companies grow nervous as divestment movement grows stronger Though fossil fuel companies may wave their hands dismissively at the divestment movement, some nervous actions of late show more concern than they let on. ... Try fossil fuel CEOs for crimes against humanity, NASA scientist says One of the world's top climate experts says chief executives of big fossil fuel companies should be tried for crimes against humanity for their role in spreading disinformation... And there is lots more! All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
And if that little lot is to much of a gulp for Denial... Then might this little chart help? And if you want to be entertained further, try: John Oliver's viral video: the best climate debate you'll ever see The new HBO comedy show Last Week Tonight with John Oliver recently made a mockery of media false balance in its climate science coverage. Oliver was interviewed on the science podcast Inquiring Minds last week... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
And for those still in denial, please explain off these recent consequences: (All quite a howler that turned my locality into a Mary Celeste for a while.) Thousands remain without power after storms ... A total of 32,000 Scottish and Southern Energy (SSE) customers in the north and 1,500 supplied by Scottish Power further south of the country are affected. SSE said engineers worked through the night to try to restore power to homes. Heavy snowfalls and ice overnight have made some roads impassable and access to the network difficult... ... The bad weather has toppled power lines and uprooted trees and on Friday caused the suspension of all ScotRail trains, although some limited services later resumed... ... Eleven catering stations have been set up where people can get a hot meal... ... A gust of 140mph was recorded at the summit of Cairngorm and the BBC Winterwatch studio, in a cabin on the Mar Lodge Estate in the Cairngorms, was destroyed by the winds. Gales cause damage and disruption across Wales Gales have caused damage and disruption to travel and power supplies with a large number of trees blown down. Western Power Distribution says power has been restored to most customers after 500 homes were affected in 13 separate incidents across Wales... ... About 2,000 homes were left without power on Friday night at Gilwern, near Abergavenny, Monmouthshire. And three children were injured when a tree was blown on to a bus carrying school pupils in Pontypool on Friday. Contrasting with: Unusual number of UK flowers bloom Botanists have been stunned by the results of their annual hunt for plants in flower on New Year’s Day. They say according to textbooks there should be between 20 and 30 species in flower. This year there were 368 in bloom... ... The Met Office has confirmed 2014 as the warmest year on UK record, with the wettest winter and the hottest Halloween. It is also the warmest year in the Met Office’s Central England Temperature series, which dates to 1659. Their blog said: “Human influence on the climate is likely to have substantially increased the chance of breaking the UK and CET temperature records. Estimates from the Met Office suggest that it has become about 10 times more likely for the UK record to be broken as a result of human influence on the climate.â€... Expensive stuff... And that is becoming ever more common... Really all just 'natural'?... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Extreme Weather Displaces Far More People Than War — And It's Getting Worse Experts warn that governments need to prepare themselves for a growing and often overwhelming influx of migrants. The displaced won't be fleeing the horrors of the battlefield, they said, but environmental disasters, made more frequent and severe by climate change. https://news.vice.com/article/extreme-weather-displaces-far-more-people-than-war-and-its-getting-worse Where will all people go? |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
WOWSA! Yu See Dat INDUSTRIAL SIZED POST by 1 and Only? Heeba Habba! HuWoMan O Live. 1 and Only Must Be FEELING The PRESSURE. DEM 'FACTS' makes An Old Cool Lava Rockin' Head Swim. Dr. HOHUM, Knows How 'it' Feels, being Pressured. heeeheeeheee. Oh Yeah, 'FACTS' DENIED HOHUM. Beatin' Dat HUGE POST DRum DRum to Get The 'FACTS' Out. May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19402 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
I cannot trust the Predications of the same Scientists, who have been incorrect regarding their predictions of the amount of Global Warming, over the last 15 years You quoted specific years, therefore you were talking about weather. Climate deals with long periods, the shortest is usually 30 years. Now get your thinking straight, if you want to talk about weather then open another thread, this thread is about the long term Climate Change. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... If certain Scientists, and Organizations, predict a Temperature Rise, for those years, and are incorrect... So... You're playing the troll game of absolutes, ignoring reality, and no quoting of any facts whatsoever. All with added deliberate confusion between the words weather, climate, global, local, and average and probability. I do hope the rest of the American education system is somehow better than what we see on this thread! Or is that all a part of the game of playing troll? Instead, care to start on any one verifiable fact that is relevant that we can all agree upon?... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... I rest my case. Noted for how you edit your quoting... No useful discussion with you. Time to move on. And still we pollute our world on an industrial scale unabated... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19402 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
But those scientist who predict what a particular year is going to do are NOT the scientists studying climate change. Climate change scientists, if pushed, might give you a prediction that the average World Wide temperature will be higher for this period than the last period. And the amount of change due to climate prediction in any small area is most certainly overwhelmed by normal weather differences from year to year. If the temperature change due to climate change is 5 degrees C per century then the average change per year is 0.05 degrees per year. If the increase is that then how much of a difference will that make to your local weather forecast for any particular day/week/month/year. NIL. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... Just repeating my question: Just more of your FUD and UFO conspiracy theory and denial of the world around you. And a fool can ask more questions than are useful to answer. To get real, can you try a new start? See: The Real Climate [edit] A shorter more readable list can be found on New Scientist: Climate change: A guide for the perplexed [/edit] All on our only one planet, Martin ps: And these forums really do need proper "added later edit tags"! See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
... Just repeating my question: Clyde, Knock it off. You are the one living in the Conspiratorial Fantasy World. Climate deniers are on the wrong side of history on this one and unfortunately the stakes are too high for us to indulge you. Reality Internet Personality |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
...for us to indulge you 99 Percent of The World's Population Don't Believe and Don't Give A SHAT 'bout Climate 'Change'. So, INDULGING 'is' What You Are Left Doing. Like 'it' or Not. 'Cause CONVINCING 'is' Not Ever Going To Happen. I'm Convinced I'm The Best Looking Screaming Tree in Da Forest. Way Better Looking than Screaming Ted Look-a-Like. Yep May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
You're living in a Conspiratorial Fantasy World. Where those asking questions, you TRULY believe, are UFO Freaks, FUD, Denier's, etc. try looking in the mirror another case of the kettle calling the pot black just saying words are cheap |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... And if you want to be entertained further, try: A little something to try to unravel the FUD and word games... Enjoy the vid! All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
STUDY: Volcanoes cooling Earth... Partially but much too small an effect to counterbalance how we are industrially polluting our own atmosphere with CO2. Yes, we really do far exceed even the worse of what present day volcanoes contribute. All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11416 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Clyde betting on volcanoes isn't gona do it in the intermediate term much less the long term. To quote the article The UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change last year concluded that the deep oceans had been responsible for absorbing an increasing amount of heat, but warned that this could not continue indefinitely. As that gets warmed up all hell is going to break loose |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21235 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Clyde betting on volcanoes isn't gona do it in the intermediate term much less the long term. Indeed so and the oceans are still thermally expanding right throughout the so called 'hiatus' period. See: A new sea level curve Meanwhile, going back to the Daily Mail sensationalism and celeb mammary glands and old unreferenced graphs: There is indeed a healthy reappraisal of volcanic aerosol effects for the last century, with this new one paper reporting: The “warming hiatus†that has occurred over the last 15 years has been caused in part by small volcanic eruptions. Scientists have long known that volcanoes cool the atmosphere because of the sulfur dioxide... ... Previous research suggested that early 21st-century eruptions might explain up to a third of the recent warming hiatus... ... Ridley and colleagues found the missing piece of the puzzle at the intersection of two atmospheric layers, the stratosphere and the troposphere... Ridley and colleagues combined observations from ground-, air- and space-based instruments to better observe aerosols in the lower portion of the stratosphere. They used these improved estimates of total volcanic aerosols in a simple climate model, and estimated that volcanoes may have caused cooling [contribution] of 0.05 degrees to 0.12 degrees Celsius since 2000. ... So... That suggests that they have found an additional layer in the atmosphere where volcanic emissions reflect sunlight back out to space and so the recent cooling effect from volcanoes can be expected to be greater than the so far expected 1/3rd contribution of effects. That doesn't change what we are observing and measuring or for how we are industrially polluting our atmosphere towards an untimely hell. What this does mean is that once the effects of recent volcanic eruptions clear, we are going to suffer even more rapid and greater warming than originally feared. So prey to your Vulcan gods for more sun-reflective volcanic eruptions? But not too big! And not too acidic or violent so as to not do too much damage!! All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11416 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
What this does mean is that once the effects of recent volcanic eruptions clear, we are going to suffer even more rapid and greater warming than originally feared. Yes, the math is irrefutable, 50 years ago I took those classes and passed, math does not intimidate me, it is very logical. |
Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
Yes Clyde and if your add ocean Absorption , orbit , progression and the current Maunder Minimum period the sun is going through then your right and why there has been a slowing of the temp . However it's still not going to be enough unless we stop pumping Co2 Orbit and progression we can't do anything about and will take a long time Volcanoes come and go and we can't do anything about them and effects are normally only short 3-10 yrs max The sun can change quickly and although we can't stop it it is the 1 that will be very bad when it returns back to normal in a few decades on on the next cycle It will still come down to how much Co2 and we must stop that now we do not have very long 65 yrs max before really bad effects on humans will be seen and even less if we don't at least stop the increase in output |
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