Chimps... Are they people too?

Author	Message
bluestar Send message Joined: 5 Sep 12 Posts: 4138 Credit: 2,084,789 RAC: 7	Message 1586639 - Posted: 14 Oct 2014, 2:50:04 UTC Last modified: 14 Oct 2014, 2:50:59 UTC Personally I have not eaten whale meat for quite a number of years now. Why is it so? The answer is that it is very expensive to buy. However, because it is a delicacy, I have no problem when it comes to eating such food. But what about eating meat from a chimp, or another similar animal? The answer here is definitely no. It tends towards cannibalism, which is a wrong thing to do. Meat is consisting mainly of proteins. Proteins are meant to be broken down into amino acids before ending up in your body cells. If such proteins become to similar with our body's own proteins, there may possibly become a misunderstanding between the food you are eating and the elements of your body and you may risk ending up with the possibilty of unwanted mutations and other similar things. This is the reason for making a good selection about food based on taste and keen instinct. Nothing else. ID: 1586639 ·

Clyde "Liberal" Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Aug 99 Posts: 16376 Credit: 45,556,044 RAC: 62	Message 1586631 - Posted: 14 Oct 2014, 2:30:20 UTC - in response to Message 1586630. We, in SETI, are oriented, if not dedicated, towards making contact with (an) "alien" civilization(s). Some day (not in our time, I'm sure), our civilization might make it into space, in a large way (envision, migrations). With that in mind, perhaps we should consider what sort of attitude(s) we might have, if we happened upon a planet possessing hominids, similar to those on Earth, say, 2+ million years, ago. Bear in mind, that Homo sapiens may have done "a number" on "fellow" hominids, here on Earth. They, certainly, are not around (except, perhaps, in a small percent of incorporated Neanderthal genes). Nature seems to want to blur the lines, and we should continue to debate these issues. Good prep-work, for the future. We will do, as we always do. Keep them penned up. Possibly in large area's, and study them. If we are visited by Evolutionally Advanced Aliens. They will probably do the same thing to us, or worse. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --- George Santayana Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. --- Lord Acton ID: 1586631 ·

Jim Martin Send message Joined: 21 Jun 03 Posts: 2361 Credit: 646,848 RAC: 0	Message 1586630 - Posted: 14 Oct 2014, 2:26:50 UTC We, in SETI, are oriented, if not dedicated, towards making contact with (an) "alien" civilization(s). Some day (not in our time, I'm sure), our civilization might make it into space, in a large way (envision, migrations). With that in mind, perhaps we should consider what sort of attitude(s) we might have, if we happened upon a planet possessing hominids, similar to those on Earth, say, 2+ million years, ago. Bear in mind, that Homo sapiens may have done "a number" on "fellow" hominids, here on Earth. They, certainly, are not around (except, perhaps, in a small percent of incorporated Neanderthal genes). Nature seems to want to blur the lines, and we should continue to debate these issues. Good prep-work, for the future. ID: 1586630 ·

Clyde "Liberal" Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Aug 99 Posts: 16376 Credit: 45,556,044 RAC: 62	Message 1586625 - Posted: 14 Oct 2014, 2:13:17 UTC - in response to Message 1586572. The question wasn't about making a chimp subject to human law. It was about giving it human rights. And responsibilities? Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --- George Santayana Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. --- Lord Acton ID: 1586625 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 21803 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 15	Message 1586575 - Posted: 14 Oct 2014, 0:08:20 UTC - in response to Message 1586572. The question wasn't about making a chimp subject to human law. It was about giving it human rights. That's the point isn't it? It's not human. ID: 1586575 ·

Es99 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10872 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0	Message 1586572 - Posted: 14 Oct 2014, 0:06:01 UTC The question wasn't about making a chimp subject to human law. It was about giving it human rights. Reality Internet Personality ID: 1586572 ·

Raistmer Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 6242 Credit: 106,370,077 RAC: 275	Message 1586550 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 23:36:52 UTC - in response to Message 1586543. Last modified: 13 Oct 2014, 23:44:08 UTC btw, recently I heard some lection about evolution of human brain. There was example of perhaps cleverest chimp in history was given. yep, smth like human being of very small age... or as australopitec(that is even before Homo habitus). There are good reasons why even human being of small age with not fully developed brain is restricted regarding human law. The same full self-awareness is the key reason. Child brain not fully developed to adequately react and foresee consequencies (). If current human law treat childs differently (in ALL countries I heard of) why one should bother with question why not to exercise whole law on monkeys??? Lets give 2-years child vote right first then return to monkey-question... () NB, in most law systems there is procedure to check if person was compos mentis in the moment of crime. That means, under modern human law, even adult human specie can be not fully in self-awareness state to exercise human law in whole... ID: 1586550 ·

Clyde "Liberal" Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Aug 99 Posts: 16376 Credit: 45,556,044 RAC: 62	Message 1586546 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 23:26:22 UTC - in response to Message 1586543. Any living creature with self awareness and the ability to communicate is as much a person as you or I am. The day when self awareness will be undoubtly proved for monkeys or for dolphins or whatever will mean Earth has 2 (or more) sentient species. Until then "the person" regarding animal means not too more than the person of home PC or bike or favorite car. All those have own "persons" in some way... End even in this case to give other species _same_ rights as to humans is quite foolish. Cause their needs are different. So to make chimp the subject of human law... ridiculous at least. To establish some rules and laws special regarding what humans can and can not do with chimps with base of chimp needs has sense, to make chimp the subject of human law - no sense at all. Just as with other sentient ( if any would be found) species. Interesting. Are we proposing Imposing Human Law upon Non-Humans. What if they 'Think' Human Law sucks? Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --- George Santayana Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. --- Lord Acton ID: 1586546 ·

Raistmer Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Jun 01 Posts: 6242 Credit: 106,370,077 RAC: 275	Message 1586543 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 23:10:50 UTC - in response to Message 1585973. Any living creature with self awareness and the ability to communicate is as much a person as you or I am. The day when self awareness will be undoubtly proved for monkeys or for dolphins or whatever will mean Earth has 2 (or more) sentient species. Until then "the person" regarding animal means not too more than the person of home PC or bike or favorite car. All those have own "persons" in some way... End even in this case to give other species _same_ rights as to humans is quite foolish. Cause their needs are different. So to make chimp the subject of human law... ridiculous at least. To establish some rules and laws special regarding what humans can and can not do with chimps with base of chimp needs has sense, to make chimp the subject of human law - no sense at all. Just as with other sentient ( if any would be found) species. ID: 1586543 ·

Clyde "Liberal" Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Aug 99 Posts: 16376 Credit: 45,556,044 RAC: 62	Message 1586461 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 20:49:09 UTC - in response to Message 1586259. Last modified: 13 Oct 2014, 20:50:31 UTC But isn't the whale hunting that Japanese (and others) do for food (whale meat being a delicacy in some nations)? I know it used to be a big business hunting them for 'whale oil', but I thought that it was for food now... Wasn't referring to 'Delicacy Food', when killing Whales, nor Monkey Brains. Just Subsistence Hunting: A NEED, not a want. Edit: Oil from Whales was needed. Not now. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --- George Santayana Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. --- Lord Acton ID: 1586461 ·

Julie Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 33903 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 41	Message 1586405 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 19:35:14 UTC - in response to Message 1586399. Yeah but that is what happens if you declare them to be 'persons'. It means you get the same legal rights as human beings. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with that. They have equal rights as any human imo Ah, then what's their draft number? You and I both know they don't have any, Gary, humans rule the world, didn't you know? rOZZ Music Pictures ID: 1586405 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 26997 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 73	Message 1586399 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 19:22:10 UTC - in response to Message 1586221. Yeah but that is what happens if you declare them to be 'persons'. It means you get the same legal rights as human beings. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with that. They have equal rights as any human imo Ah, then what's their draft number? ID: 1586399 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 21803 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 15	Message 1586282 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 15:47:03 UTC I've changed my mind, they should be granted personhood. After all... They've learnt the art of politics ID: 1586282 ·

Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0	Message 1586276 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 15:32:47 UTC - in response to Message 1586259. Maybe Martin should answer this one since he is a very vocal opponent of Whale hunting around here... But isn't the whale hunting that Japanese (and others) do for food (whale meat being a delicacy in some nations)? I know it used to be a big business hunting them for 'whale oil', but I thought that it was for food now... Technically if you ask them its for 'science'. I assume molecular gastronomy. ID: 1586276 ·

KWSN - MajorKong Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0	Message 1586259 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 14:48:21 UTC - in response to Message 1586254. Agree. Chimpanzee's, Orangutan's, Gorilla's have to be treated as Intelligent. But 'Personhood'? No. We don't 'Hunt', nor raise them for food. Why do we do this to Whale's? Another Topic? CLYDE, 1 word... Bushmeat. Should have said Hunt for Sport, and not sustenance in certain parts of The World. Maybe Martin should answer this one since he is a very vocal opponent of Whale hunting around here... But isn't the whale hunting that Japanese (and others) do for food (whale meat being a delicacy in some nations)? I know it used to be a big business hunting them for 'whale oil', but I thought that it was for food now... ID: 1586259 ·

Clyde "Liberal" Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Aug 99 Posts: 16376 Credit: 45,556,044 RAC: 62	Message 1586254 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 14:32:01 UTC - in response to Message 1586253. Last modified: 13 Oct 2014, 14:33:10 UTC Agree. Chimpanzee's, Orangutan's, Gorilla's have to be treated as Intelligent. But 'Personhood'? No. We don't 'Hunt', nor raise them for food. Why do we do this to Whale's? Another Topic? CLYDE, 1 word... Bushmeat. Should have said Hunt for Sport, and not sustenance in certain parts of The World. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --- George Santayana Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. --- Lord Acton ID: 1586254 ·

KWSN - MajorKong Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0	Message 1586253 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 14:28:44 UTC - in response to Message 1586248. I would better have stated they have equal rights within Their possibilities and place in Earthly hierarchy of course. I don't think a chimp would stand up in court and object to the judge LOL Julie... Agree. Chimpanzee's, Orangutan's, Gorilla's have to be treated as Intelligent. But 'Personhood'? No. We don't 'Hunt', nor raise them for food. Why do we do this to Whale's? Another Topic? CLYDE, 1 word... Bushmeat. ID: 1586253 ·

Julie Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 28 Oct 09 Posts: 33903 Credit: 18,883,157 RAC: 41	Message 1586251 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 14:24:48 UTC - in response to Message 1586248. I would better have stated they have equal rights within Their possibilities and place in Earthly hierarchy of course. I don't think a chimp would stand up in court and object to the judge LOL Julie... Agree. Chimpanzee's, Orangutan's, Gorilla's have to be treated as Intelligent. But 'Personhood'? No. We don't 'Hunt', nor raise them for food. Why do we do this to Whale's? Another Topic? Indeed another topic... We humans tend to take advantage of our power, Clyde:( rOZZ Music Pictures ID: 1586251 ·

Clyde "Liberal" Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 9 Aug 99 Posts: 16376 Credit: 45,556,044 RAC: 62	Message 1586248 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 14:17:43 UTC I would better have stated they have equal rights within Their possibilities and place in Earthly hierarchy of course. I don't think a chimp would stand up in court and object to the judge LOL Julie... Agree. Chimpanzee's, Orangutan's, Gorilla's have to be treated as Intelligent. But 'Personhood'? No. We don't 'Hunt', nor raise them for food. Why do we do this to Whale's? Another Topic? Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --- George Santayana Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. --- Lord Acton ID: 1586248 ·

Gone with the wind Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 41704 Credit: 42,645,437 RAC: 95	Message 1586242 - Posted: 13 Oct 2014, 13:52:44 UTC Chimpanzees are the closest living relatives to humans, being members of the tribe Hominini. ID: 1586242 ·

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