Middle East Timebomb

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Message 1601273 - Posted: 15 Nov 2014, 1:10:44 UTC

Further proof that "boots on the ground" is needed.

Air strikes don't stop this...
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Message 1603809 - Posted: 22 Nov 2014, 0:15:48 UTC
Last modified: 22 Nov 2014, 0:16:58 UTC

After watching a video in which several children were executed by Isis the Swedish bodyguard Rafael Rahl Qadr decided to go to the Kurdish city Kobane to battle.
Unfortunately, no country in Europe is up against Isis today, says Rafael Rahl Qadr.
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=3993&artikel=6023725
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Message 1604535 - Posted: 23 Nov 2014, 15:45:58 UTC

An interesting & informative report...

Jerusalem's 800 year old Indian Hospice

...shows the effects of the "Lines in the Sand" had at grass roots level.
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Message 1604562 - Posted: 23 Nov 2014, 18:19:26 UTC - in response to Message 1604535.  
Last modified: 23 Nov 2014, 18:20:21 UTC

An interesting & informative report...
Jerusalem's 800 year old Indian Hospice
...shows the effects of the "Lines in the Sand" had at grass roots level.

Many Sufis don't consider themselves Muslims anymore even in the middle east some don't consider themselves Muslims, in the past Sufis blended in with Islam to avoid persecution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Cf-ZxDfZA
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Message 1606293 - Posted: 27 Nov 2014, 22:30:18 UTC
Last modified: 27 Nov 2014, 22:30:31 UTC

Beware of upsetting a Mother and her daughters, 25 of the Taliban found out the hard way.

http://www.news.com.au/world/afghan-mum-reza-gul-kills-25-taliban-in-revenge-attack/story-fndir2ev-1227136703703

Cheers.
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Message 1606843 - Posted: 29 Nov 2014, 8:09:20 UTC

After watching a doco today i found out a few things i didn't know about the fighting in Syria and what caused the country to implode and it has nothing to do with religion and if we don't start taking action then it will spread and not for the reason you all think .

watch YEARS OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY

to find out more go to http://www.sho.com/sho/years-of-living-dangerously/home
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Message 1606866 - Posted: 29 Nov 2014, 9:54:50 UTC - in response to Message 1606843.  

After watching a doco today i found out a few things i didn't know about the fighting in Syria and what caused the country to implode and it has nothing to do with religion and if we don't start taking action then it will spread and not for the reason you all think .
watch YEARS OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY
to find out more go to http://www.sho.com/sho/years-of-living-dangerously/home

Thanks Glenn for your link:)
As you say it's not about religion what is happening in the Middle East right now.
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Message 1606920 - Posted: 29 Nov 2014, 15:26:48 UTC - in response to Message 1606905.  
Last modified: 29 Nov 2014, 15:30:18 UTC

After watching a doco today i found out a few things i didn't know about the fighting in Syria and what caused the country to implode and it has nothing to do with religion and if we don't start taking action then it will spread and not for the reason you all think .
watch YEARS OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY
to find out more go to http://www.sho.com/sho/years-of-living-dangerously/home

Thanks Glenn for your link:)
As you say it's not about religion what is happening in the Middle East right now.

A combination of Religious and Cultural Civil War.

Cultural yes but Religious no.
But leaders in this usually use religion to justify their actions.
Bush Jr for instances always said "God bless America" when US was in a Campaign in Iraq.
And the people there says that US is Satan.
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Message 1606922 - Posted: 29 Nov 2014, 16:18:09 UTC - in response to Message 1606921.  
Last modified: 29 Nov 2014, 16:26:05 UTC

After watching a doco today i found out a few things i didn't know about the fighting in Syria and what caused the country to implode and it has nothing to do with religion and if we don't start taking action then it will spread and not for the reason you all think .
watch YEARS OF LIVING DANGEROUSLY
to find out more go to http://www.sho.com/sho/years-of-living-dangerously/home

Thanks Glenn for your link:)
As you say it's not about religion what is happening in the Middle East right now.

A combination of Religious and Cultural Civil War.

Cultural yes but Religious no.
But leaders in this usually use religion to justify their actions.
Bush Jr for instances always said "God bless America" when US was in a Campaign in Iraq.
And the people there says that US is Satan.

Cultural = Religious
Religious = Cultural
Interesting. Possibly true.

Hmm. Reciprocal statement:)
I would say religion is a part of Culture.
However religions has the same principles on how we humans should interact to each other.
Jihadists and crusaders are not religous.
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Message 1607746 - Posted: 1 Dec 2014, 18:18:48 UTC

Recipe for the rest of the Middle East to take note of?

"Gen Hitti is a Christian, and his colleague Gen Mourad a Sunni Muslim.

With the exception of one or two defections of soldiers to IS, the Lebanese army has not split along sectarian lines. It remains internally united and, according to opinion polls, trusted by most Lebanese, whatever their religion or sect.

In Iraq, IS was able to capture Mosul by inspiring terror in their enemies and exploiting the corruption and sectarian divisions of the Iraqi army. The same could not happen here, said Gen Mourad.

"The Lebanese army is not the Iraqi army," he said. "
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Message 1607915 - Posted: 1 Dec 2014, 23:07:17 UTC - in response to Message 1607746.  

With the exception of one or two defections of soldiers to IS, the Lebanese army has not split along sectarian lines. It remains internally united and, according to opinion polls, trusted by most Lebanese, whatever their religion or sect.

Perhaps indicating that Lebanon is more successful in creating a nation than Iraq or Syria.
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Message 1613601 - Posted: 13 Dec 2014, 23:34:24 UTC

Now I know that there's a problem with a lot of young people returning to their countries of birth (or their family's) and joining terror groups, but I think that it's unfair to blame the government about it let alone want to sue them.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/you-let-my-girl-fly-off-to-die-jihadi-amira-karroums-father-blames-australian-government-for-daughters-death/story-fnii5s3x-1227154629432

Most go to another country 1st that isn't on a watch list and then reroute themselves to get there. It's only after the reroute has happened that governments find out where they have gone.

And I'm baffled why any women would do this.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/two-sydney-women-flee-to-syria-to-become-is-jihahi-terror-brides/story-fnpn118l-1227155193402

Isn't it bad enough that a lot of young fellows are wanting to come back now after finding out what's it's really like to join these groups, but now can't return because they'll be arrested as soon as they get off the plane.
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Message 1613608 - Posted: 13 Dec 2014, 23:53:40 UTC

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Message 1613797 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 10:47:17 UTC - in response to Message 1613709.  

When you join the Enemy's Army...

Unless they are under 18: They are old enough to accept the consequence's.

Well for one, they are not. Turning 18 doesn't magically turn on your intelligence. Generally, you are still a dumb idiot teen at that age. I know I was.

Also, you have to ask whether this approach is effective? If people want out because they finally realize how goddamn stupid they have been, you are the one blocking their exit. Why would you do that, instead of helping them get out? And, throwing those people in jail could only further radicalize them. Hell, the current leadership of ISIS all became what they are today because they got thrown in jail by the Americans in Iraq. Thats how they met, thats how they got stuck in their little circle, thats how their own radical believes started reinforcing themselves.

I think we should ISIS as a violent and dangerous cult. And that anyone who wants out, or goes back to their country of origin should be treated as a victim of a cult. So instead of throwing them in jail, help them shed those radical believes and help them return to society.
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Message 1613821 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 12:19:39 UTC - in response to Message 1613797.  


I think we should ISIS as a violent and dangerous cult. And that anyone who wants out, or goes back to their country of origin should be treated as a victim of a cult. So instead of throwing them in jail, help them shed those radical believes and help them return to society.

So if "Jihadi John" was a Dutchman, you'd do that for him?
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Message 1613831 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 12:57:14 UTC - in response to Message 1613821.  

So if "Jihadi John" was a Dutchman, you'd do that for him?

Hmm good question. But in the end, yes I think I would do that for him if he wanted to return to the Netherlands.

We got ISIS because last time we threw all those radicals in jail together, tortured them and treated them like human garbage. And mind you, back then those people weren't innocent, they were already involved in the insurgency against the Americans in Iraq, they had killed people. Them being thrown in jail was for a good reason. But we have to recognize that it did not work. So why should throwing them in jail again work this time? To me it seems that throwing everyone in jail because they were part of a terrorist outfit is simply repeating the mistakes the Americans made in Iraq.
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Message 1613834 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 13:02:53 UTC - in response to Message 1613831.  

A lovely answer to your post & it's not the report itself that answers you but a comment on that report...

Tell me this is a b****y joke!

...comment posted...

"Of course we can't be nasty to them. They bomb our homes, kill our loved ones, insult our religion and homeland, rape our women and slit the throats of their victims. God forbid we should get angry at them for it and make them feel intimidated when we capture them.

We didn't win wars in the past by being PC wimps. Make no mistake, this is a war against terrorists and standard rules of war apply - Whatever means necessary to end it. We should only abide by the Geneva convention when they do."

One cannot fight with both hands tied behind one's back!
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Message 1613846 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 13:38:16 UTC - in response to Message 1613834.  

A lovely answer to your post & it's not the report itself that answers you but a comment on that report...

Tell me this is a b****y joke!

Well if you don't believe me, why don't you listen to some high up from ISIS itself? The guy is literally telling you that last time the West tried to 'interrogate' them, we laid the foundations for what would become ISIS. And you think we should do that again? Now thats the very definition of insanity.

...comment posted...

"Of course we can't be nasty to them. They bomb our homes, kill our loved ones, insult our religion and homeland, rape our women and slit the throats of their victims. God forbid we should get angry at them for it and make them feel intimidated when we capture them.

We didn't win wars in the past by being PC wimps. Make no mistake, this is a war against terrorists and standard rules of war apply - Whatever means necessary to end it. We should only abide by the Geneva convention when they do."

One cannot fight with both hands tied behind one's back!

Sticking to the Geneva conventions is not fighting with your hands tied behind your back. Treating prisoners humanely is not weakness. Not torturing prisoners is not going to hamper your ability to gain intel from them. If you think otherwise, well then I'm afraid you are living in a world that is devoid of cold hard facts.

Because the fact is that torture does not work. Literally every evaluation study ever done into torture has come to this conclusion. Every scrap of actual intel gained from torture could have just as easily been gained from other methods of intelligence gathering, with the added benefit that you didn't need to shift through all the lies prisoners tell you because they think thats what you want to hear so the torture stops. This is undisputed cold hard scientific fact.

And treating prisoners according to the Geneva conventions in general? The advantages are numerous and obvious. 1) You never have to worry about any scandals leaking to the press if you treat prisoners according to the Geneva conventions. Never any headlines with naked prisoners being walked around like dogs, never any stories about prisoners getting their genitals electrocuted, never any criticisms from the public and the rest of the world that what you are doing is wrong. 2) By treating prisoners right, you are less likely to radicalize them even further. Mistreat a prisoner and you can be sure that if he wasn't an extremist hating your country already, he will be once he gets out. 3) Its good for your own personal. Mistreating prisoners tends to cause a severe psychological strain on the people that do it. So, you avoid getting a bunch of people back with PTSD and all kinds of other psychological illnesses. That saves you money. The same goes for not just executing unarmed people who have surrendered.


The idea that the Geneva conventions are a sign of 'political correctness' just shows how far we have fallen and how weak we are. It won't be terrorists that will destroy us, it will people like that commenter and those who agree with him.
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Message 1613850 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 13:45:24 UTC - in response to Message 1613846.  

So pop over to Syria & preach that sermon there...

...what words would you like on your wreath?
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Message 1613853 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 13:56:23 UTC - in response to Message 1613850.  

So pop over to Syria & preach that sermon there...

...what words would you like on your wreath?

And that would do what exactly? Aside from the fact that wherever I preach, no one will listen anyways, why should I preach in Syria when I'm preaching about Western policies towards ISIS?

Oh right, I forgot. This is just a cop out, an easy way of avoiding having to respond to my arguments on a more substantive level. You know, if you want easy cop outs that hide your lack of substance, perhaps you shouldn't use a non sequitur.
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