Middle East Timebomb

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Message 1626348 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 7:26:20 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015, 7:26:33 UTC

The 5 major reason we are where we are in the middle east .

1 We allowed Israel to be form'd and took Land away from a people that had been there for centuries.

2 we did not remove Saddam when we had the right conditions for it . The gulf war

3 we have allowed Israel to get away with not signing the peace accord for what ever B/S reason under Clinton

4 we went back and removed Saddam when Saddam was not involved in 9/11 instead of keeping the resources to rebuild Afghanistan and keeping the high moral road .

5 we did not help the Syrians remove Bashar al-Assad and allowing ISIS to be created

we = western country's

So to now start saying it all the fault of the muftis and Imam leaders is a bit rich

Germany was made out to be evil and Hitler Satin during wwII and what they where doing was . So why now do we hold the very leaders of Islam to a higher level than what we have done in most wars Demonize our enemy's

We are as much the blame as any other peoples in the world for this .

We should have all ways taken the high moral road and done what should have been done at times when we had the chance

Pity it may well come down to having to us a nuke but then we have all been told it may just end with the end of man .....WWW3

It will all depend on what country's like Russia and North Korea do , as they may well try and take advantage of what is happening . Putin has already fired a few verbal shots at the west

Na that would not happen ....well it may !! , it has been used before in the past and it won't matter if it did not work we humans forget the past when it is convenient and keep making the same type of mistakes
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Message 1626387 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 12:31:01 UTC - in response to Message 1626251.  

Remember the civil rights screaming when the LAPD, NYPD and FBI put undercover agents in Mosques? Someone needs to be listening to who is recruiting for jihad. Those that seek to attack in the name of jihad need to be removed from society as they are minions of Satan. I finally think a few leaders are beginning to see that violence does not work to get the change they seek.

Pretty sure they already spy on Mosques that have suspected links to terrorist organizations or who proclaim extremists views. However, Mosques are only a minor problem. The internet has become a much more potent tool for recruiting more Jihadists exactly because its so difficult to monitor.
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Message 1626389 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 12:44:31 UTC - in response to Message 1626336.  

You can't hold several countries with the same religion responsible for the actions of a few.

Correct.

But they are responsible for their response, or lack of.

Same applies to the Muslim Communities.

Words are cheap.

Are you responsible for American tourists misbehaving in Europe? Or for American Christian missionaries in Africa teaching them how to be effective homophobes? Or for American evangelical hate groups operating within the US? No, you are not. Sure, its nice of you if you were to condemn them, but no one seriously expects you to do that, let alone take decisive steps against them.

So why are Muslims suddenly responsible for what individuals of their community do?

And what can Muslims actually do to stop terrorism? What makes you think that this is just a matter of them stepping up and saying "no more"? Do you think Muslims in general don't care if one of them becomes a terrorists? That they dont care that all kinds of awful things happen in their religions name?

Also, why are Muslims the only ones being held responsible? Why are the attacks in Paris something that only concerns French Muslims, and not other French people? Are they not part of the same society? Of the same country?
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Message 1626392 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 13:05:09 UTC - in response to Message 1626391.  

The internet has become a much more potent tool for recruiting more Jihadists exactly because its so difficult to monitor.

Apparently not PRISM

Meh, as far as I'm aware, its still possible to use encryption services to hide from the NSA. Also, while they seem to be collecting almost every scrap of data found on the internet, that data is useless if there is no way of sifting through the data to find actually suspicious persons. In all likelihood, such mass data collection programs are probably making the intelligence work more difficult. There is an overload of data, 99.99999% of it being irrelevant that you still need to sift through. Its looking for a needle in a haystack.

I guess thats why those programs have not resulted in captured terrorist or foiled terrorist plots.
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Message 1626402 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 13:54:41 UTC - in response to Message 1626397.  


But of course you are the one that has gone on record as saying that terrorism doesn't exist,

Nope, never said that.

hardly anybody gets killed,

That is a pure and simple fact. Terrorism in the UK is as deadly as bee and wasp stings. In the Netherlands, no one has died in a terrorist act for decades. Compared to all the other things that kill human beings in Europe, terrorism is extremely low on the list.

and it's all a big fuss about nothing.

That simply follows from the previously stated fact. If terrorism hardly kills anyone in Europe, then why are we shifting such a disproportionate amount of resources to combat it? Why are we willing to give up almost all of our online privacy for something that is statistically speaking, extremely unlikely to kill or hurt you?

But we all know what left wing Uni students are like, and I'm sure that your MIVD monitor you and your mates.

Oh, and what are left wing students like? And what makes you think I'm like that?

And if there is someone who is monitoring me, its the AIVD (MIVD is military intelligence). But then again, those guys are known to spy on everyone, so its nothing personal.

But really, its kinda disappointing that you think I'm such a radical that the government needs to spy on me, supposedly because I'm a threat to public safety.
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Message 1626407 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 14:04:20 UTC - in response to Message 1626397.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015, 14:25:06 UTC

You really do need to get out more and look beyond your own countries boundaries.

PRISM is a clandestine anti-terrorism mass electronic surveillance data mining program launched in 2007 by the National Security Agency (NSA), with participation from an unknown date by the British equivalent agency, GCHQ.

OK got that so far?

The threat of a terror attack in the UK is increasing and the security services cannot be expected to stop every plot, the head of MI5 has warned. Speaking after the attack on the French magazine Charlie Hebdo, Andrew Parker said police and MI5 had "stopped three UK terrorist plots" in recent months.

But of course you are the one that has gone on record as saying that terrorism doesn't exist, hardly anybody gets killed, and it's all a big fuss about nothing. But we all know what left wing Uni students are like, and I'm sure that your MIVD monitor you and your mates.

The National Security Agency (NSA) and GCHQ work close with the Swedish equivalent FRA.
NSA:s relationship with the Swedish SIGINT service Försvarets radioanstalt (FRA) was established in 1954 under the UKUSA agreement.
Which means that GCHQ has worked with NSA since at least 1954.
http://rixstep.com/1/20131208,00.shtml
Their bands were drawn even tighter in 2004 with new top secret bilateral agreements between the NSA, the GCHQ, and the Swedish FRA.
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Message 1626413 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 14:40:52 UTC

A video has emerged online of Amedy Coulibaly, the terrorist who killed a policewoman on Thursday in Paris and another four people in a kosher supermarket in Vincennes on Friday, seeking to justify his murders, pledging allegiance to Isil and discussing the Charlie Hebdo attack.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338159/Paris-attacks-video-emerges-of-Amedy-Coulibaly-pledging-allegiance-to-Isil.html
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Message 1626456 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:13:42 UTC - in response to Message 1626392.  

The internet has become a much more potent tool for recruiting more Jihadists exactly because its so difficult to monitor.

Apparently not PRISM

Meh, as far as I'm aware, its still possible to use encryption services to hide from the NSA. Also, while they seem to be collecting almost every scrap of data found on the internet, that data is useless if there is no way of sifting through the data to find actually suspicious persons. In all likelihood, such mass data collection programs are probably making the intelligence work more difficult. There is an overload of data, 99.99999% of it being irrelevant that you still need to sift through. Its looking for a needle in a haystack.

I guess thats why those programs have not resulted in captured terrorist or foiled terrorist plots.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/
I'm pretty sure they do read through the lot of all packets on the net. Once they got GPU's is became possible.
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Message 1626460 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:21:23 UTC - in response to Message 1626457.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015, 16:26:08 UTC

Cameron and Milliband are marching in Paris, and others attending are German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. There is a unified resposce.

There are supposed to be various projections in London in the Tricolours but I cant see them yet.

London Eye

Tower bridge

Marine Le Pen is not there.
She even asked the French people not to join the march:(
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Message 1626462 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:28:08 UTC - in response to Message 1626457.  

Unified response? It would be much better if it was a gathering of eagles determined to act, instead all we see is political posturing!

Projections? I see them here. All that knocking of France & the French, suddenly...
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Message 1626466 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:31:27 UTC - in response to Message 1626463.  

Wow, really? Well I be damned, we learn something new every day :-)
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Message 1626468 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:40:52 UTC - in response to Message 1606920.  

Religion and Culture are one in the same in the Middle East. If you don't believe it then ask all of those poor women shrouded under the veil about why they hide themselves from the world and accept de-facto second class status ??
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Message 1626469 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 16:45:06 UTC - in response to Message 1626468.  

Religion and Culture are one in the same in the Middle East. If you don't believe it then ask all of those poor women shrouded under the veil about why they hide themselves from the world and accept de-facto second class status ??

Especially when their "good book" states this: -
"Respect & Honour your wife" Quran 4:19
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Message 1626481 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 17:35:11 UTC - in response to Message 1626463.  

She is the leader of the French National Front.
France's ruling Socialists have tried to ban National Front from a peace march

France isn't some peoples most favourite nation in the world, but in cases like this those thoughts are put to one side.
Background

Her father is Jean-Marie Le Pen.
A virus can solve the global "population explosion" and "Europe's immigration problem." says Jean-Marie Le Pen, 85, candidate for the European Parliament for the French far-right party Front National.
- Mr Ebola could solve it there in three months, said Le Pen.
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Message 1626508 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 19:14:43 UTC - in response to Message 1626505.  

Nice soundbites & lovely photoshoots, normal day for politicians then...

...Since when has London been the whole of the UK?

"Earlier on Saturday he warned: "We in Britain face a very similar threat - a threat of fanatical extremism - and we have to confront that in every way we can." "

So how about getting off your high horse Del-boy & increase Police & Forces manpower, you seem to have enough money in the coffers providing foreign aid & attending useless global & European conferences as well as providing massive tax breaks for your cronies!
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Message 1626510 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 19:18:50 UTC - in response to Message 1626508.  

...Since when has London been the whole of the UK?

It isn't, but as the capital city, i think it can usually speak for the UK.
And i say that as a Northerner, a category often sidelined in national politics.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1626546 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 20:43:20 UTC

Cherry picking again I see. Typical politics! So, we can expect to see less bureaucrats & more police officers & forces personnel then...

...any fool can set up a light, yet many do not have the courage to stand up & be counted, they much prefer supping & yakking while people die.
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Message 1626553 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 20:58:18 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015, 20:58:58 UTC

Meanwhile, elsewhere in that region, such is how official punitive overreaction makes for revolutions and war:


Saudi blogger Badawi 'flogged for Islam insult'

A Saudi Arabian blogger has been publicly flogged after being convicted of cybercrime and insulting Islam, reports say.

Raif Badawi, who was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and 10 years in jail, was flogged 50 times. The flogging will be carried out weekly...

... In 2013 he was cleared of apostasy, which could have carried a death sentence.

Last year Mr Badawi's lawyer was sentenced to 15 years in prison...




1,000 lashes: Can't see him surviving that...

Dread to think what the Saudi Arabian officialdom pseudo-religious thugs would do with the s@h forums...

There has to be a better interpretation of Islam!


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Message 1626555 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 21:02:35 UTC - in response to Message 1626553.  

There has to be a better interpretation of Islam

Never going to happen, regardless of what religion is used, there will always be those that argue for "their" interpretation.
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Message 1626580 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 22:43:49 UTC - in response to Message 1626553.  

Dread to think what the Saudi Arabian officialdom pseudo-religious thugs would do with the s@h forums...

You don't have to imagine it ....
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/11/saudi-arabia-intensifies-twitter-crackdown-2014112363955848622.html
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Message boards : Politics : Middle East Timebomb


 
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