Middle East Timebomb

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Message 1585774 - Posted: 12 Oct 2014, 14:15:30 UTC - in response to Message 1585762.  

Remember: It is not what You, I, nor anyone else believes is in the best interests of Other's. It is what THEY believe is in THEIR best interests, which will determine THEIR actions.

Thats true. But their believes can be wrong and if they act on the wrong believes they will pursue the wrong actions and in a few years they will come to realize how dumb they were.
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Message 1585776 - Posted: 12 Oct 2014, 14:17:34 UTC - in response to Message 1585774.  

Remember: It is not what You, I, nor anyone else believes is in the best interests of Other's. It is what THEY believe is in THEIR best interests, which will determine THEIR actions.

Thats true. But their believes can be wrong and if they act on the wrong believes they will pursue the wrong actions and in a few years they will come to realize how dumb they were.

There's a problem with that view though...

...start a small snowball at the top of a mountain, how large is it when it hits the bottom?
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Message 1585948 - Posted: 12 Oct 2014, 20:41:32 UTC

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Message 1587853 - Posted: 16 Oct 2014, 16:43:04 UTC

The timebomb is ticking away nicely

Co-ordination does help...

..."It has emerged that when coalition planes launched their mission in Syria on 23 September, no-one saw fit to tell President Obama's new allies on the ground."
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Message 1588265 - Posted: 17 Oct 2014, 12:30:35 UTC - in response to Message 1588257.  

Next escalation

Looks like we'll have to build that wall a lot higher!

The service ceiling on a MIG 21 i believe is about 55,000 feet.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1588393 - Posted: 17 Oct 2014, 18:27:44 UTC - in response to Message 1588257.  

Next escalation


And we should worry why? They have three reported MiG 21's or 23's. These are aging and no match for western airpower today, ask the Iraqi airforce...they were decimated in 1992 during the first Gulf war, and the majority flew to Iran, where many were impounded by the Iranians for simply shot down as they crossed into Iranian airspace.

These aircraft have archaic radar systems that are unable to IFF and the pilots need to make a visual inspection of the target in order to lock...western aircraft do not have these issues and they would simply get blown out of the sky in short order.

Lets not blow things out of proportion and scare monger.
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Message 1588657 - Posted: 18 Oct 2014, 10:43:45 UTC - in response to Message 1588640.  

Aren't we in danger of missing the point here? The very fact that Iraqi jet pilots have defected to ISIS is worrying in itself. Maybe they do only have some old obsolete aircraft at their disposal, but if they are ramping up their activities to the next level, how long will it be before they get hold of some modern jets with the ability to fly them?

Well its not like its easy to get a modern plane just like that. Actually, thats pretty much impossible. These were stolen from the Syrian army, but good luck stealing an F-18 from an aircraft carrier. On top of that, even if you got the plane and someone knew how to fly it, they would still be useless. Modern planes require massive amounts of maintenance. They could maybe fly a few missions with those planes before they need maintenance or they just wont work properly. And in order to do maintenance you need spare parts. And good luck buying spare parts for an F-18 or F-22.
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Message 1588847 - Posted: 19 Oct 2014, 16:58:52 UTC

The West & some Arab nations wants IS destroyed? Everyone knows that airstrikes alone are not enough & that the coalition forces do not want to be the first to place boots on the ground.

So why is it that the ones doing the actual fighting against IS are not supported?

Has IS made a strategic blunder?
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Message 1588862 - Posted: 19 Oct 2014, 17:22:02 UTC - in response to Message 1588858.  
Last modified: 19 Oct 2014, 18:06:54 UTC

Watching those Air Strikes WITHIN Kobane:

Would not have been done without Western (Read American) 'Boots On The Ground', directing the strikes.

Ah, so you(America that is) are solely taking the credit for being badly organised where co-ordination is concerned?

"There hasn't been a lot of communication between our air strikes and where they are on the ground... They are almost as surprised about the strikes as [IS]."

Well, you never have given a damn about Friend/Foe, as long as you bagged the target & able to "paint" the mission on your tally.

Bikers shame the politicians

The comments are great but the best one just has to be...

"Lets send all europe's soccer hooligans and just tear isis to bits."
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Message 1588912 - Posted: 19 Oct 2014, 18:55:35 UTC - in response to Message 1588640.  
Last modified: 19 Oct 2014, 18:55:55 UTC

Aren't we in danger of missing the point here? The very fact that Iraqi jet pilots have defected to ISIS is worrying in itself. Maybe they do only have some old obsolete aircraft at their disposal, but if they are ramping up their activities to the next level, how long will it be before they get hold of some modern jets with the ability to fly them?

Sorry, I won't be accused of scaremongering, that is just bluster. Think ahead to what a future threat might be, not just the current one. We have already agreed here that any military campaign needs strategy and tactics, it also needs reconnaissance, intelligence, and forward planning. From what I can see, most professional military observers are advocating going in hard and taking ISIS out now, before they become too powerful.

Sadly I have to agree, even though it looks like that boots on the ground will be necessary, despite political wishes to the contrary. That could likely mean even at the very least some UK special forces, which might not all come home. This is a fight about another countries problems, but unfortunately it also effects everyone else as well. The world is not a happy place to live in at the moment.


Sorry Chris it is bordering on scaremongering when you word things as you have. If the entire Iraqi airforce went over to ISIS it would not matter as they have no bloody aircraft other than the 3 aging relics mentioned. We need to keep focus on the realities and the real threat and not be distracted by side issues...there is enough mission creep as a natural consequence of conflict, we do not need to add to it.

If there was a report of members of the Syrian Air Force defecting with hardware then that would be a different matter as that opens up a can of worms that really could result in serious escalation depending on the numbers of defectors and the quantity of hardware taken over.

However this last reason is the main reason for the introduction of a No Fly Zone over Syria as Turkey have advocated for months. If the only legitimate aircraft are those authorised, anything else can be treated as hostile and taken out. It stops any needless concern, stops airdrops to ISIL and means that we can fly in helicoptors to make surgical strikes at low level without the risk of encountering beligerant air power.
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Message 1588922 - Posted: 19 Oct 2014, 19:18:25 UTC - in response to Message 1588904.  
Last modified: 19 Oct 2014, 19:18:37 UTC

Watching those Air Strikes WITHIN Kobane:

Would not have been done without Western (Read American) 'Boots On The Ground', directing the strikes.

Ah, so you(America that is) are solely taking the credit for being badly organised where co-ordination is concerned?

These Air Strikes were apparently done with B1 Bombers. Were they flown by Non-American Crews? Who would be 'On the ground' directing these strikes?

Only "apparently"? Isn't US intelligence up to the task then?

Was I speaking about the other strikes outside of the populated areas? No.

Did I say, or imply, others weren't involved in The Air Campaign? No.

The ONLY Western, non-Arab, Country involved, was The USA, according to the article YOU supplied.

So...

Note to myself: Stop responding the silly posts.


There have been many articles posted, with one stating that the coordination between air & ground is sorely lacking, & as you stated, the ground direction is done by yourselves, hence the impression being seen that it's "Target or Bust"
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Message 1590181 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 15:21:35 UTC

Expect more of this, now that Canada joins coalition.
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Message 1590184 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 15:33:36 UTC - in response to Message 1590181.  

Expect more of this, now that Canada joins coalition.


Yep, was about to post this, trying to decide which thread it best fit in.

From the article you posted:


Senior government member Tony Clement said on Twitter shots were fired near an in-progress cabinet meeting in parliament.


Other stories about this incident indicate at least 30 shots fired inside the Canadian Parliament building.

It looks like a coordinated attack to me. Plus it was 2 days after a 1 Canadian soldier was killed and 1 wounded after being run over by an Islamist just outside of Montreal.

I agree... Expect more.
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Message 1590187 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 15:39:20 UTC - in response to Message 1590181.  

Expect more of this, now that Canada joins coalition.

I hope I don't have to:(
The "western" world are in trouble.
Bad news are coming in every day.

In this case it's not middle east related.
Looks to me more like the Norway attack some years ago.
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Message 1590236 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 17:14:51 UTC - in response to Message 1590187.  

Expect more of this, now that Canada joins coalition.

I hope I don't have to:(
The "western" world are in trouble.
Bad news are coming in every day.

In this case it's not middle east related.
Looks to me more like the Norway attack some years ago.

I'll think you'll find it is related...

"The latest incident began when soldiers guarding the memorial came under fire on Wednesday morning.
One gunman - said to be carrying a rifle - fired on soldiers guarding Canada's main war memorial and then ran into the parliament.
"The indications are there is more than one gunman. There may be several," Canadian MP Marc Garneau told the BBC, adding he and fellow politicians were evacuated from the area."
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Message 1590257 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 17:46:14 UTC - in response to Message 1590236.  

Expect more of this, now that Canada joins coalition.

I hope I don't have to:(
The "western" world are in trouble.
Bad news are coming in every day.
In this case it's not middle east related.
Looks to me more like the Norway attack some years ago.

I'll think you'll find it is related...
"The latest incident began when soldiers guarding the memorial came under fire on Wednesday morning.
One gunman - said to be carrying a rifle - fired on soldiers guarding Canada's main war memorial and then ran into the parliament.
"The indications are there is more than one gunman. There may be several," Canadian MP Marc Garneau told the BBC, adding he and fellow politicians were evacuated from the area."

Now I'm confused.
From the BBC article.
Earlier this month, the country announced plans to join the US-led campaign of air strikes against Islamic State (IS) militants in Iraq.
But there is no confirmation any of this week's attacks are linked to IS or the new military campaign.
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Message 1590268 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 18:38:05 UTC - in response to Message 1590257.  

How much more confirmation does one need?

"Plus it was 2 days after a 1 Canadian soldier was killed and 1 wounded after being run over by an Islamist just outside of Montreal."
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Message 1590289 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 19:16:46 UTC - in response to Message 1590268.  

How much more confirmation does one need?

For the mail? Fox News? The government?
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Message 1590295 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 19:23:12 UTC

Boots on the ground, in Canada, as well. Refer current news on "Islamic"
attack on the Parliament, in Ottawa.
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Message 1590320 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 19:56:56 UTC - in response to Message 1590268.  
Last modified: 22 Oct 2014, 20:00:04 UTC

How much more confirmation does one need?
"Plus it was 2 days after a 1 Canadian soldier was killed and 1 wounded after being run over by an Islamist just outside of Montreal."

I see.
Well. As you said, we will see more of this...
But I hope that everyone can distinguise a Islamist from a Jihadist.
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Message boards : Politics : Middle East Timebomb


 
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