I'd say your holiday snaps are more art than a sadistic iron.

Why?

I'd say your holiday snaps are more art than a sadistic iron.

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

So why is it art when my vacation photos are not art?

Maybe the photos are ART. We have not seen them:)
At least to your Childrens and generations to come.
Who knows?

When it comes to the question of what defines a work as art, i'd answer it with a question.
"Does this need explaining?"

Examples:

Constable's The Haywain

This picture needs no explanation or justification as to what or why it is. This is art.

Man Ray's Cadeau

From the Tate website:
one of the famous icons of the surrealist movement. It consists of an everyday continental flat iron of the sort that had to be heated on a stove, transformed here into a non-functional, disturbing object by the addition of a single row of fourteen nails. The transformation of an item of ordinary domestic life into a strange, unnameable object with sadistic connotations exemplified the power of the object within dada and surrealism to escape the rule of logic and the conventional identification of words and objects.
That they felt the need to tack on an explanation shows this is not art.

True art speaks for itself.

That's my opinion anyway, you may now start throwing chairs.

Hmm, actually, I do need an explanation why your painting is art and why the other thing is not. I mean sure, its a beautiful picture, no doubt about that, and yes, its technically well done. But why is it art? Or, why is this art when my vacation pictures are not?

You say it doesn't need a justification, but why not? Because everyone who has a working set of eyes instantly sees whats on the painting? But everyone with a working set of eyes also instantly knows what the other thing is. Its a iron with nails attached to it. But where the iron with nails makes you think, makes you reconsider certain preconceptions you have about both irons and nails, how combining the two transforms two common innocent household items into some pretty mean looking object, what does that painting do? Show you a nice picture? Perhaps paint a somewhat idealized image of what was? And whats special about it? There are thousands of paintings that are just like that. Its not unique, its not intelligent, its nothing more than a really nice picture. So why is it art when my vacation photos are not art?

Art, like beauty, is only in the eye of the beholder. ;-)

Cheers.

Ugh, I hate that sentiment. It robs art of all possible meaning and significance. It reduces everything into art as long as there is one person to claim that some object is art 'in his opinion'. It turns even the most base, vulgar stupid unintelligent nonsense into 'art' because everyone has an opinion.

I rather have that a bunch of people don't get it and don't like it if it means art refers to something that has a little more meaning, requires a little more effort to understand and therefor means something more than just looking pretty according to a bunch of people.

Art is not always meant to please the audience.
I think you have missed the point about ART.
We dont live in Nazi Germany or Russia!

Art, like beauty, is only in the eye of the beholder. ;-)

Cheers.

Ugh, I hate that sentiment. It robs art of all possible meaning and significance. It reduces everything into art as long as there is one person to claim that some object is art 'in his opinion'. It turns even the most base, vulgar stupid unintelligent nonsense into 'art' because everyone has an opinion.

I rather have that a bunch of people don't get it and don't like it if it means art refers to something that has a little more meaning, requires a little more effort to understand and therefor means something more than just looking pretty according to a bunch of people.

Man Ray's Cadeau
http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/man-ray-cadeau-t07883/text-summary

Reg Butler Girl on a Round Base 1968–72
http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/butler-girl-on-a-round-base-t07793/text-summary

30 years since I saw that Girl on a Round Base.
Still remember it:)

I get back pain just looking at that sculpture!

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Art, like beauty, is only in the eye of the beholder. ;-)

Cheers.

When it comes to the question of what defines a work as art, i'd answer it with a question.
"Does this need explaining?"

Examples:

Man Ray's Cadeau

From the Tate website:
one of the famous icons of the surrealist movement. It consists of an everyday continental flat iron of the sort that had to be heated on a stove, transformed here into a non-functional, disturbing object by the addition of a single row of fourteen nails. The transformation of an item of ordinary domestic life into a strange, unnameable object with sadistic connotations exemplified the power of the object within dada and surrealism to escape the rule of logic and the conventional identification of words and objects.
That they felt the need to tack on an explanation shows this is not art.

True art speaks for itself.

I have been to Tate Gallery.
Dont remember the iron though:)
Lots of Turner paintings.
And a weird statue of a female.
But the Moral Majority in USA doesn't allow me to speak about it:(

Hang on. Tate Gallery is not in the USA. Its in London Europe:)
So here it is.

When it comes to the question of what defines a work as art, i'd answer it with a question.
"Does this need explaining?"

Examples:

Constable's The Haywain

This picture needs no explanation or justification as to what or why it is. This is art.

Man Ray's Cadeau

From the Tate website:
one of the famous icons of the surrealist movement. It consists of an everyday continental flat iron of the sort that had to be heated on a stove, transformed here into a non-functional, disturbing object by the addition of a single row of fourteen nails. The transformation of an item of ordinary domestic life into a strange, unnameable object with sadistic connotations exemplified the power of the object within dada and surrealism to escape the rule of logic and the conventional identification of words and objects.
That they felt the need to tack on an explanation shows this is not art.

True art speaks for itself.

That's my opinion anyway, you may now start throwing chairs.

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Pile of rocks.

Now if they redid the outer limestone layer, that might be art.

Well Erosion and several thousands years...

It just needed a bit of maintenance.

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Philistinism

:D

- It is only philistines who live at home.
- Guess so. Cheers for freedom!

Philistinism

:D

Philistinism: In the fields of philosophy and æsthetics, the term philistinism describes the social attitude of anti-intellectualism that undervalues and despises art, beauty, and intellect; ‘the manners, habits, and character, or mode of thinking of a philistine’.[1] A philistine person is the man or woman who is smugly narrow of mind and of conventional morality whose materialistic views and tastes indicate a lack of and indifference to cultural and æsthetic values.

Seems to be a very smug, and self-serving attitude.

---

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- George Santayana

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--- Lord Acton

Yes its a symbol. And yes it would not have been built if Viet Nam had not been fought. Yes it is a memorial. But having seen it in person.
It is art.
Its simple and pleasing to the eye. If art is supposed to move you, The Wall does. I walked its length reading the names of the fallen in a stupid war of my gerneration. When I exited the momument and turned around to look at it I had tears streaming down my face.
I do disagree with you that the Wall isnt art. To me its the highest form of art calling out the stupidty on man.

Well sure, I'm not saying that such a memorial can't be extremely emotional and beautiful. But I don't think the fact that something can make you emotional makes something art. The graveyard where my grandfather is buried also makes me emotional, but I wouldn't say that his tombstone is art because of that. And I've been to the American military cemetery in Normandy and that is a very emotional and very impressive site as well, it practically serves the same function as the wall (although you can argue that the soldiers buried in Normandy have died for a much better cause) but again I would be hesitant to call the cemetery art.

And lets take this a little further. Would you say that the Berlin wall, or the pieces that are left of it, are art? Its emotional for those that know what it stood for, and its beautiful in a way as well, thanks to the graffiti. Does that make the Berlin wall art? I would disagree and I think most people would disagree with the notion that the Berlin wall is now art.

There is a saying here between artists that they are really good in working on the sentiment. Must only apply to Belgium then I guess...

What? An Artists work is ment to working on the sentiment:)
Look how many there are in this thread discussing Art.

True... Is there actually a general definition of Art?

This is what Wikipedia says:

Art may be characterized in terms of mimesis (its representation of reality), expression, communication of emotion, or other qualities. During the Romantic period, art came to be seen as "a special faculty of the human mind to be classified with religion and science".[2] Though the definition of what constitutes art is disputed[3][4][5] and has changed over time, general descriptions mention an idea of imaginative or technical skill stemming from human agency[6] and creation.[7]

The nature of art, and related concepts such as creativity and interpretation, are explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art

My definition of Art is shorter:)
Activities that are not boring:)

Some Music AKA art to this:)
Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison & Janis Joplin together!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZovbveguEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugGjdzxXswY

Yes its a symbol. And yes it would not have been built if Viet Nam had not been fought. Yes it is a memorial. But having seen it in person.
It is art.
Its simple and pleasing to the eye. If art is supposed to move you, The Wall does. I walked its length reading the names of the fallen in a stupid war of my gerneration. When I exited the momument and turned around to look at it I had tears streaming down my face.
I do disagree with you that the Wall isnt art. To me its the highest form of art calling out the stupidty on man.

Well sure, I'm not saying that such a memorial can't be extremely emotional and beautiful. But I don't think the fact that something can make you emotional makes something art. The graveyard where my grandfather is buried also makes me emotional, but I wouldn't say that his tombstone is art because of that. And I've been to the American military cemetery in Normandy and that is a very emotional and very impressive site as well, it practically serves the same function as the wall (although you can argue that the soldiers buried in Normandy have died for a much better cause) but again I would be hesitant to call the cemetery art.

And lets take this a little further. Would you say that the Berlin wall, or the pieces that are left of it, are art? Its emotional for those that know what it stood for, and its beautiful in a way as well, thanks to the graffiti. Does that make the Berlin wall art? I would disagree and I think most people would disagree with the notion that the Berlin wall is now art.

There is a saying here between artists that they are really good in working on the sentiment. Must only apply to Belgium then I guess...

What? An Artists work is ment to working on the sentiment:)
Look how many there are in this thread discussing Art.

True... Is there actually a general definition of Art?

This is what Wikipedia says:

Art may be characterized in terms of mimesis (its representation of reality), expression, communication of emotion, or other qualities. During the Romantic period, art came to be seen as "a special faculty of the human mind to be classified with religion and science".[2] Though the definition of what constitutes art is disputed[3][4][5] and has changed over time, general descriptions mention an idea of imaginative or technical skill stemming from human agency[6] and creation.[7]

The nature of art, and related concepts such as creativity and interpretation, are explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Yes its a symbol. And yes it would not have been built if Viet Nam had not been fought. Yes it is a memorial. But having seen it in person.
It is art.
Its simple and pleasing to the eye. If art is supposed to move you, The Wall does. I walked its length reading the names of the fallen in a stupid war of my gerneration. When I exited the momument and turned around to look at it I had tears streaming down my face.
I do disagree with you that the Wall isnt art. To me its the highest form of art calling out the stupidty on man.

Well sure, I'm not saying that such a memorial can't be extremely emotional and beautiful. But I don't think the fact that something can make you emotional makes something art. The graveyard where my grandfather is buried also makes me emotional, but I wouldn't say that his tombstone is art because of that. And I've been to the American military cemetery in Normandy and that is a very emotional and very impressive site as well, it practically serves the same function as the wall (although you can argue that the soldiers buried in Normandy have died for a much better cause) but again I would be hesitant to call the cemetery art.

And lets take this a little further. Would you say that the Berlin wall, or the pieces that are left of it, are art? Its emotional for those that know what it stood for, and its beautiful in a way as well, thanks to the graffiti. Does that make the Berlin wall art? I would disagree and I think most people would disagree with the notion that the Berlin wall is now art.

There is a saying here between artists that they are really good in working on the sentiment. Must only apply to Belgium then I guess...

What? An Artists work is ment to working on the sentiment:)
Look how many there are in this thread discussing Art.

Yes its a symbol. And yes it would not have been built if Viet Nam had not been fought. Yes it is a memorial. But having seen it in person.
It is art.
Its simple and pleasing to the eye. If art is supposed to move you, The Wall does. I walked its length reading the names of the fallen in a stupid war of my gerneration. When I exited the momument and turned around to look at it I had tears streaming down my face.
I do disagree with you that the Wall isnt art. To me its the highest form of art calling out the stupidty on man.

Well sure, I'm not saying that such a memorial can't be extremely emotional and beautiful. But I don't think the fact that something can make you emotional makes something art. The graveyard where my grandfather is buried also makes me emotional, but I wouldn't say that his tombstone is art because of that. And I've been to the American military cemetery in Normandy and that is a very emotional and very impressive site as well, it practically serves the same function as the wall (although you can argue that the soldiers buried in Normandy have died for a much better cause) but again I would be hesitant to call the cemetery art.

And lets take this a little further. Would you say that the Berlin wall, or the pieces that are left of it, are art? Its emotional for those that know what it stood for, and its beautiful in a way as well, thanks to the graffiti. Does that make the Berlin wall art? I would disagree and I think most people would disagree with the notion that the Berlin wall is now art.

There is a saying here between artists that they are really good in working on the sentiment. Must only apply to Belgium then I guess...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Well sure, I'm not saying that such a memorial can't be extremely emotional and beautiful. But I don't think the fact that something can make you emotional makes something art. The graveyard where my grandfather is buried also makes me emotional, but I wouldn't say that his tombstone is art because of that. And I've been to the American military cemetery in Normandy and that is a very emotional and very impressive site as well, it practically serves the same function as the wall (although you can argue that the soldiers buried in Normandy have died for a much better cause) but again I would be hesitant to call the cemetery art.

This is ART.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skogskyrkog%C3%A5rden
Skogskyrkogården, official name in English: The Woodland Cemetery, is a cemetery located in Enskede suburb of Stockholm, Sweden.
In 1994, Skogskyrkogården was named a UNESCO World Heritage Site and although it does not have the number of famous interments as the Norra begravningsplatsen, its much older counterpart in northern Stockholm, it is a major tourist attraction.

I was born in Enskede. Not Enschede in Holland although I have been there 1969:)

Yes its a symbol. And yes it would not have been built if Viet Nam had not been fought. Yes it is a memorial. But having seen it in person.
It is art.
Its simple and pleasing to the eye. If art is supposed to move you, The Wall does. I walked its length reading the names of the fallen in a stupid war of my gerneration. When I exited the momument and turned around to look at it I had tears streaming down my face.
I do disagree with you that the Wall isnt art. To me its the highest form of art calling out the stupidty on man.

Well sure, I'm not saying that such a memorial can't be extremely emotional and beautiful. But I don't think the fact that something can make you emotional makes something art. The graveyard where my grandfather is buried also makes me emotional, but I wouldn't say that his tombstone is art because of that. And I've been to the American military cemetery in Normandy and that is a very emotional and very impressive site as well, it practically serves the same function as the wall (although you can argue that the soldiers buried in Normandy have died for a much better cause) but again I would be hesitant to call the cemetery art.

And lets take this a little further. Would you say that the Berlin wall, or the pieces that are left of it, are art? Its emotional for those that know what it stood for, and its beautiful in a way as well, thanks to the graffiti. Does that make the Berlin wall art? I would disagree and I think most people would disagree with the notion that the Berlin wall is now art.