Most of what is written about Jesus' life was a fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Immediately after Jesus' death his apostles got into arguments about what would Jesus do. They even disagreed about whether or not non Jews could become Christians.

Saul of Tarsus, the writer of the Pauline epistles, never walked with Jesus yet he wrote most of the New Testament. If we remove the epistles we get a very different religion.

Jesus personalty gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom.

Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Yet Saul of Tarsus bullied him.

Galatians 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

That is a jaw dropper to Christians when I tell them this is why I don't accept Paul as an apostile.

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Ah yes that "magic" word: - Symbolism.

You don't need religion for that!

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

I know it's not mandatory but the pressure has always been there for all schoolchildren to say it, regardless of their faith or culture.

Let's take you (as you've already stated it on these boards)

Wanting to join the biggest "symbol" this side of the pond.

EU flags
EU passports
EU number plates
Etc, etc, etc.

In the 21st century there is only the one "god" in all cultures...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

...from grass roots all the way to the top. Anyone with their own individual beliefs are ridiculed. Just look to these boards to see a sample of that.

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I am acutely aware of what Christians believe, and the part of their belief that makes Jesus not just an interesting political leader with some interesting things to say, is the idea that he died and rose again. That is the bit that turns him into a god. The sacrifice of the one year king in spring is a very old ancient pagan belief and one they took on to make Jesus a powerful, magical figure.

If you take away his death and the manner of it, he is no longer a god. The most holy symbol of Christianity is the method by which he was tortured to death. Most branches of the church preach reward after death, not in this life. They are obsessed with what happens after death.

The Egyptians were obsessed with death, everything they did in life was to prepare for the afterlife. Most Christians spend much more time on what you do during life than what happens after you die. Sure, they promise a reward in the afterlife and they do talk about it, but to call them obsessed by it is absurd.

And again, the focus of the crucifixion story does not lie with all the gory details of Jesus's death or the actual manner of his death. The real focus lies on the meaning of his actions, namely his sacrifice for everyone else, and then that he rises from the after 3 days and a little later, his transcendence.

In the end, the fact is that Christians celebrate the crucifixion in just one day while they spend the rest of the year celebrating either his birth, his rise from the grave, his transcendence or all the other things he supposedly did or said while he was still alive. I can hardly call that obsessed with death.

If they celebrate his birth as much as his death why is there a cross at ground zero and not a big vagina?

Because Ground Zero is a site where 3000 people lost their lives. You do not celebrate life at a place like that, just like you wouldn't do that on a graveyard.

The better question would be why Christians have used the cross as their symbol if they want to celebrate life over death. Well no one will deny that Jesus sacrificing himself to conquer sin and death isn't an important part of Christian mythology. And, by being nailed on the cross he became a martyr, so that is why everyone associated the cross with Christians. Besides, do you think that 2nd century patriarchal society would be comfortable with one of their biggest symbols being a vagina?

Honestly though, you are taking symbols, strip them of their symbolism and then accuse the people who use those symbols of having certain believes because of symbols ripped out of their context.

...cross is a symbol of death. I am sorry that vaginas frighten you so much that you took it the way you did.

Vagina Begets Man. Man Begets Weapons/BMWs. Man Kills. Yeah, I Beez frightened by dA Begeted Ones.

Now I'm Wonderin' bout dA Cross versus Vagina. IfN Vagina, shaved or natural? The Ground Zero Symbol dAt 'is'.

Again, Wonder. It's the Only Beautiful Thang.

'Cause Reality Can Bite.

fO shO fO evA.

I don't think they had Brazilians back in Marys day. The 9/11 memorial vagina would obviously be au naturel.

LMAO, I cant even belive we have gotten to this point.

WAX on WAX off.

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[/quote]

Old James

...cross is a symbol of death. I am sorry that vaginas frighten you so much that you took it the way you did.

Vagina Begets Man. Man Begets Weapons/BMWs. Man Kills. Yeah, I Beez frightened by dA Begeted Ones.

Now I'm Wonderin' bout dA Cross versus Vagina. IfN Vagina, shaved or natural? The Ground Zero Symbol dAt 'is'.

Again, Wonder. It's the Only Beautiful Thang.

'Cause Reality Can Bite.

fO shO fO evA.

I don't think they had Brazilians back in Marys day. The 9/11 memorial vagina would obviously be au naturel.

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Reality Internet Personality

Christmas is celebrated on what is an old pagan mid winter festival. Its roots are far older than Jesus. Its not so much the Church, but the Romans who blended all the religions of the countries that it occupied. It was a better way of keeping control.

Christmas didn't come about until about 400 A.D. Rome, in Jesus' time, didn't seam concerned with religion. They didn't care if Jesus or his followers thought he was god but "King of the Jews" talk got him a crown of thorns. It wasn't personal, just politics.

Jesus would be locked up in Guantanamo Bay if he was alive today.

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Reality Internet Personality

Christmas is celebrated on what is an old pagan mid winter festival. Its roots are far older than Jesus. Its not so much the Church, but the Romans who blended all the religions of the countries that it occupied. It was a better way of keeping control.

Christmas didn't come about until about 400 A.D. Rome, in Jesus' time, didn't seam concerned with religion. They didn't care if Jesus or his followers thought he was god but "King of the Jews" talk got him a crown of thorns. It wasn't personal, just politics.

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If they celebrate his birth as much as his death why is there a cross at ground zero and not a big vagina?

Remember the "Ground Zero Cross" is not a religious symbol according to the court.

As anniet mentioned Jesus wasn't born in what is now December. It is too cold for shepherds to be laying out in the field with their flock at that time. The winter solstice is a natural time for celebration as the sun returns to the sky.
The church is very good at incorporating local beliefs into her catechism. To this day mid December is a natural time for celebrating; "Happy Holidays".

Christmas is celebrated on what is an old pagan mid winter festival. Its roots are far older than Jesus. Its not so much the Church, but the Romans who blended all the religions of the countries that it occupied. It was a better way of keeping control.

Easter is still the big day for Christians*.
*Easter is celebrated on different days each year. It is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox; sounds a bit pagan. The Orthodox Catholics still use the Julian Calendar for religious observances instead of Pope Gregory's Calendar; that is why their Easter and Christmass usually falls two weeks later.

Easter is the pagan fertility festival named for the goddess Eostre, hence all the bunnies and eggs.

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Reality Internet Personality

eS99 said:

If they celebrate his birth as much as his death why is there a cross at ground zero and not a big vagina?

NYC has enuff Flies.

And FemiNazis.

Dats Why.

Dat dA Answer youse wazzs lookin' fO, right?

' '

No. I was trying to point out that the cross is a symbol of death. I am sorry that vaginas frighten you so much that you took it the way you did.

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Reality Internet Personality

If they celebrate his birth as much as his death why is there a cross at ground zero and not a big vagina?

Remember the "Ground Zero Cross" is not a religious symbol according to the court.

As anniet mentioned Jesus wasn't born in what is now December. It is too cold for shepherds to be laying out in the field with their flock at that time. The winter solstice is a natural time for celebration as the sun returns to the sky.
The church is very good at incorporating local beliefs into her catechism. To this day mid December is a natural time for celebrating; "Happy Holidays".

Easter is still the big day for Christians*.
*Easter is celebrated on different days each year. It is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox; sounds a bit pagan. The Orthodox Catholics still use the Julian Calendar for religious observances instead of Pope Gregory's Calendar; that is why their Easter and Christmass usually falls two weeks later.

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For the death cult thing, please, that is such an oversimplification of what Christianity stands for. Yes, the day Jesus gets nailed to the cross is celebrated. But they don't celebrate his death, they celebrate the symbolism behind it. The sacrifice one person made to save the human race. His first step to transcendence. And that is just one thing. They also celebrate Jesus his birth and what death cult celebrates life as much as it celebrates death?

If you want to criticize Christian believes, do make sure you know what those believes actually are.

Christianity is an amalgam of several different beliefs. As it took over Europe it took on some pagan beliefs that were already there.

I am acutely aware of what Christians believe, and the part of their belief that makes Jesus not just an interesting political leader with some interesting things to say, is the idea that he died and rose again. That is the bit that turns him into a god. The sacrifice of the one year king in spring is a very old ancient pagan belief and one they took on to make Jesus a powerful, magical figure.

If you take away his death and the manner of it, he is no longer a god. The most holy symbol of Christianity is the method by which he was tortured to death. Most branches of the church preach reward after death, not in this life. They are obsessed with what happens after death.

If they celebrate his birth as much as his death why is there a cross at ground zero and not a big vagina?

---

Reality Internet Personality

For the death cult thing, please, that is such an oversimplification of what Christianity stands for. Yes, the day Jesus gets nailed to the cross is celebrated. But they don't celebrate his death, they celebrate the symbolism behind it. The sacrifice one person made to save the human race. His first step to transcendence. And that is just one thing. They also celebrate Jesus his birth and what death cult celebrates life as much as it celebrates death?

If you want to criticize Christian believes, do make sure you know what those believes actually are.

I thought the flowers were for WinterKnight? Unless its flowers all round, in which case I shall look forward to mine.

Ssshhhhhhh :) I was trying a spot of heavy hinting - but it hasn't paid off :)

Trust Americans to get it wrong again.

The staff with two snakes is a Caduceus, and the symbol of the messenger, Hermes.

The staff with one snake is the Rod of Asclepius, who was the Greek god of healing.

Those minor gods stole it from Yahweh who found it in Iraq.

But no one really knows what is symbolized then, it was the Greeks that gave us the modern meanings, that I explained earlier.

The Americans got it wrong.

My cap badge

Well - the twin snake design seems to have been consistently associated with trade, eloquence, trickery, and negotiation, rather than curing snake bites and medicine - until a little bit of confusion happened in America of course at the end of the 19th century :) The symbol has also been found on Mesopotamian cylinder seals in use in south-western Iran and Uruk (dated to around 4000 BC)

(Isn't this great! :) Just when poor Clyde was getting bored (Hi Clyde :)) we're off chatting about something I bet none of us thought we'd be chatting about this evening. :))

Its certainly taken an interesting direction.

Edit: Cylinder seals were something to do with cuneiform writing I think - I could look it up but I'm waiting for some flowers to be delivered :)

I thought the flowers were for WinterKnight? Unless its flowers all round, in which case I shall look forward to mine.

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Reality Internet Personality

Trust Americans to get it wrong again.

The staff with two snakes is a Caduceus, and the symbol of the messenger, Hermes.

The staff with one snake is the Rod of Asclepius, who was the Greek god of healing.

Those minor gods stole it from Yahweh who found it in Iraq.

But no one really knows what is symbolized then, it was the Greeks that gave us the modern meanings, that I explained earlier.

The Americans got it wrong.

My cap badge

Well - the twin snake design seems to have been consistently associated with trade, eloquence, trickery, and negotiation, rather than curing snake bites and medicine - until a little bit of confusion happened in America of course at the end of the 19th century :) The symbol has also been found on Mesopotamian cylinder seals in use in south-western Iran and Uruk (dated to around 4000 BC)

(Isn't this great! :) Just when poor Clyde was getting bored (Hi Clyde :)) we're off chatting about something I bet none of us thought we'd be chatting about this evening. :))

Edit: Cylinder seals were something to do with cuneiform writing I think - I could look it up but I'm waiting for some flowers to be delivered :)

The Americans got it wrong.

Americans? Batter Up only assumes for Batter Up.
Flowers for you.

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Trust Americans to get it wrong again.

The staff with two snakes is a Caduceus, and the symbol of the messenger, Hermes.

The staff with one snake is the Rod of Asclepius, who was the Greek god of healing.

Those minor gods stole it from Yahweh who found it in Iraq.

But no one really knows what is symbolized then, it was the Greeks that gave us the modern meanings, that I explained earlier.

The Americans got it wrong.

My cap badge

Trust Americans to get it wrong again.

The staff with two snakes is a Caduceus, and the symbol of the messenger, Hermes.

The staff with one snake is the Rod of Asclepius, who was the Greek god of healing.

Those minor gods stole it from Yahweh who found it in Iraq.

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