The thousands I was referring to are the ones mentioned in the second commandment (which I quoted). I thought they were meant to be observed by all Christians. Was I wrong? :)

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

That was Yahweh speaking to the "chosen people". Yahweh also told them to carry this as protection against snake bites; so much for carved images.

Alternatively this image is of a Greek thing. Likewise the single snake.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Well... erm... indeed. :) I was curious about there being two snakes in the symbol? I knew gazing upon one had allegedly curative properties (though if a doctor waved that at me after a cobra bite I would ask for an alternative treatment) but two surely weren't necessary... according to how the passage reads anyway :)

Batter Up assumes.
One snake for emergency medical technicians.




Two snakes for doctors because they outrank EMTs.

Trust Americans to get it wrong again.

The staff with two snakes is a Caduceus, and the symbol of the messenger, Hermes.

The staff with one snake is the Rod of Asclepius, who was the Greek god of healing.

Well... erm... indeed. :) I was curious about there being two snakes in the symbol? I knew gazing upon one had allegedly curative properties (though if a doctor waved that at me after a cobra bite I would ask for an alternative treatment) but two surely weren't necessary... according to how the passage reads anyway :)

Batter Up assumes.
One snake for emergency medical technicians.




Two snakes for doctors because they outrank EMTs.

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Yahweh also told them to carry this as protection against snake bites.

I must've missed that bit the three times I've read the Bible - or misinterpreted it... :/ apologies :)

Reading the Bible is fine but beware of translations like people instead of generations.

And virgin instead of maiden (unmarried woman)? :)

Numbers 21:8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

This is why the medical profession to this day uses the sign of the snake. You can't make this stuff up.

Well... erm... indeed. :) I was curious about there being two snakes in the symbol? I knew gazing upon one had allegedly curative properties (though if a doctor waved that at me after a cobra bite I would ask for an alternative treatment) but two surely weren't necessary... according to how the passage reads anyway :)

Yahweh also told them to carry this as protection against snake bites.

I must've missed that bit the three times I've read the Bible - or misinterpreted it... :/ apologies :)

Reading the Bible is fine but beware of translations like people instead of generations.

Numbers 21:8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

This is why the medical profession to this day uses the sign of the snake. You can't make this stuff up.

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Cross? Really? Christian religion?

"In the name of the father, & of the son & of the holy ghost"

What next? The devil being made holy? There are so many things wrong with every religious book, it's about time we all got away from it...

...I mean "Holy Ghost", c'mon, couldn't they think of anything better?

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That was Yahweh speaking to the "chosen people".

Aaaaah... so Christians are exempt then. :) I think Baptists do try to follow the graven image rule though... perhaps someone should tell them not to worry - I tell you what - I'll see what my twin thinks :) (I'm seeing her tomorrow :) YAY!) She's a Baptist! :) and she loves answering my questions :)

Yahweh also told them to carry this as protection against snake bites.

I must've missed that bit the three times I've read the Bible - or misinterpreted it... :/ apologies :)

The "ten commandments" as such are not enumerated in the Bible or Torah.

Enumerated no - listed in descending order of importance perhaps? :)

BTW, Batter Up does not consider any book the inerrant word of god.

Very wise :) particularly given how much more scientific knowledge we now have available to us :) (which you'd kinda think God had too - but maybe he didn't want to confuse us then :)) and, instead of thinking that all that stuff out there was just put there for us :) it allows us to do SETI without being struck by lightning... or burned at some rather unpleasant stake or other :/

So... back to the topic... the justification for the crossed girders is because that's how they fell... would they have been kept if they'd fallen upside down as Bobby asked? I think there were more than a few that were decidedly squiff... so why weren't they kept too? :) Don't worry - I think I know the answer... because they didn't look like a sign from God...

Um... I won't say anything about everybody's weekend this time :)... just bye! Off to slash an innocent lettuce now... and perhaps a tomato or two too :)

The thousands I was referring to are the ones mentioned in the second commandment (which I quoted). I thought they were meant to be observed by all Christians. Was I wrong? :)

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

That was Yahweh speaking to the "chosen people". Yahweh also told them to carry this as protection against snake bites; so much for carved images.



The "ten commandments" as such are not enumerated in the Bible or Torah. Jews, Protestants and Catholics have slightly different ten commandments compiled from many of the books of Moses. The Protestants say "And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments. Wile Catholic's lump that into the first which only says; "I am the LORD your God:you shall not have strange Gods before me." Catholics love statues.


BTW, Batter Up does not consider any book the inerrant word of god.

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Hope everyone has a lovely weekend. :)

Everyone include All The Murders and Other Horrifics, Atheists are committing Right Now and Future?

Wondering, dats All.

' '

I was thinking more of seti's setizens HeeeHeeeHeee 97 to 3 :) so I'm afraid I'll have to distance myself from you extending it to the groups you mentioned above. Sorry ;/

If I may ask one question though - was Moses an atheist? After all, he was a murderer... just wondering, that's all :)

Hope you have a lovely weekend :)

Just one of the occasional thoughts that waft through my brain :) again - no offence intended... just curious... but aren't symbols supposed to be a bit iffy if you're a Christian? I mean, it doesn't look good... 2.1 billion Christians... yet only 1000's receive mercy...

Do you mean the 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14? They are not Christian they are the “Jehovah’s Witnesses”. If you answered your door you would know this.

Jehovah's witnesses no longer knock on my door :) because I do answer it and they've lost two converts due to my awkward questions already. :)

The thousands I was referring to are the ones mentioned in the second commandment (which I quoted). I thought they were meant to be observed by all Christians. Was I wrong? :)

Stimulating chat :) thank you!

I don't find the Christian cross itself offensive. I've not said that anywhere. I find it creepy and always have. I guess I've seen too many graphic crucifixes with portrayals of a man wounded man dying on it.

FYI; it is called a crucifix when Jesus is on the cross, used mostly by Catholics. Catholics are big on suffering. The cross, used mostly by Protestants, with no Jesus, represents salvation. Protestants are big on easy salvation.

When did Batter Up ever disparage "the religion of peace" other than wanting a crusade to free the Christians held by Boko Haram?

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Before the Christians stole it for their death cult, it used to be the pagan symbol for the tree of life.

Before I reply, understand I am an Atheist.

I truly do not understand the need for some people to attack the Christen Religion. No, I am not speaking of persons, or organizations who profess to be Christian.

All I see is a meanness, and possible bigotry, in the hearts of the attackers.

Haven't we learned from history the results of attacks against religion?

To those Christians in this discussion, who have not pushed 'The Red X': You are, at least, showing the Compassion and Forgiveness your Religion professes.

I state a fact and you call it an attack.

Christianity is so clearly a death cult. Their symbol of worship is a man dying horrifically on a cross.

If Christians are offended by their own religion, then that's their problem, not mine. Christians appear to me to spend a lot of time being offended at people who don't take their beliefs as seriously as they do. I find that offensive.

To be honest, I am actually extremely offended by your post, but I decided not to red X it because I am not petty and can survive with my ego intact when people say things I don't agree with.

You choice of words, and attitude, confirms my post.

Meanness, and other things, do use 'Facts' (Which I don't disagree) for other purposes.

If you can offend Christians, then Christians can offend you by their symbols.

Just a personal question: What exactly is offensive about The Cross (Yes, I do capitalize, not to offend religious beliefs).

And if you are offended: So what?

Are you talking about the cross on the 9/11 site in particular? or the cross in general? I just said it was the symbol of a death cult. As such it deserves no particular special status, which it has been given here.

Its funny that Batter Up posts offensive comments about muslims as if every muslim is responsible for he horrfic events in New York, and no one says anything about that being offensive, but say one tiny actually true thing about Christianity and suddenly I'm attacking people. If my purpose was to show the double standard I think I did an awesome job.

I find the idea that somehow religious belief is special and should be protected offensive. I don't find the Christian cross itself offensive. I've not said that anywhere. I find it creepy and always have. I guess I've seen too many graphic crucifixes with portrayals of a man wounded man dying on it. That is what the cross represents to me. The glorification of one mans death.

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Reality Internet Personality

Just one of the occasional thoughts that waft through my brain :) again - no offence intended... just curious... but aren't symbols supposed to be a bit iffy if you're a Christian? I mean, it doesn't look good... 2.1 billion Christians... yet only 1000's receive mercy...

Do you mean the 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14? They are not Christian they are the “Jehovah’s Witnesses”. If you answered your door you would know this.

As it's not a religious symbol, nobody would mind if it were rotated 90 degrees in the vertical plane, or 180, right?

It stands as it was found. I know it's a Christian symbol, that's why I'm amazed the courts let it be included in a government facility.

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Today is the dedication of the 9/11 memorial museum.
The prominence of the cross in the display withstood legal challenges because it is not a religious symbol.

As it's not a religious symbol, nobody would mind if it were rotated 90 degrees in the vertical plane, or 180, right?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Just one of the occasional thoughts that waft through my brain :) again - no offence intended... just curious... but aren't symbols supposed to be a bit iffy if you're a Christian? I mean, it doesn't look good... 2.1 billion Christians... yet only 1000's receive mercy...

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

You don't suppose it was a mistake adopting the pagan cross do you...?

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend. :)

Before the Christians stole it for their death cult, it used to be the pagan symbol for the tree of life.

Before I reply, understand I am an Atheist.

I truly do not understand the need for some people to attack the Christen Religion. No, I am not speaking of persons, or organizations who profess to be Christian.

All I see is a meanness, and possible bigotry, in the hearts of the attackers.

Haven't we learned from history the results of attacks against religion?

To those Christians in this discussion, who have not pushed 'The Red X': You are, at least, showing the Compassion and Forgiveness your Religion professes.

I state a fact and you call it an attack.

Christianity is so clearly a death cult. Their symbol of worship is a man dying horrifically on a cross.

If Christians are offended by their own religion, then that's their problem, not mine. Christians appear to me to spend a lot of time being offended at people who don't take their beliefs as seriously as they do. I find that offensive.

To be honest, I am actually extremely offended by your post, but I decided not to red X it because I am not petty and can survive with my ego intact when people say things I don't agree with.

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Reality Internet Personality

This isn't about supporting a religion but the surprising court decisions lately to let religion back into state funded functions. The ground zero cross is so obviously a christian symbol, it was blessed by a priest before going on temporary display at ground zero until it permanent home was finished.

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Before the Christians stole it for their death cult, it used to be the pagan symbol for the tree of life.

Before I reply, understand I am an Atheist.

I truly do not understand the need for some people to attack the Christen Religion. No, I am not speaking of persons, or organizations who profess to be Christian.

All I see is a meanness, and possible bigotry, in the hearts of the attackers.

Haven't we learned from history the results of attacks against religion?

To those Christians in this discussion, who have not pushed 'The Red X': You are, at least, showing the Compassion and Forgiveness your Religion professes.

Well... ooh sorry - forgot to say hello :) Hello everyone, how are you all?

ES is actually correct in the origins of the cross. In fact many Christian traditions were purloined by the early Christian church as a means of stifling paganism and preventing their early followers from hedging their bets with their original gods (so to speak). It's kind of why we have Christmas at... well Christmas... instead of when it would be more correctly celebrated (September-ish).

Re the death cult reference - the Bible is in fact littered with some very apocalyptic views on extermination of whole races, and ultimately hurling the vast proportion of us into eternal hell (according to some branches of Christianity, for even daring to believe that dinosaurs once walked this earth) - so it seems not too unreasonable a term to adopt for someone who is seeking to be concise, rather than ramble on at length like myself. :) But that is just my opinion and I sincerely hope I have caused no offence in expressing it. If I have I apologise :)