Skepticism means you want to be convinced by scientific evidence or sound logic. Climate skeptics repeatedly ignore the vast majority of scientific finding in favor of cherry picking the results of a tiny amount of often dubious scientific studies to support their claim.

99 and 44/100% of the people personally can't understand a scientific paper so, like with religion, they believe what they feel not what they know is fact.
...

So how about you ask someone with a degree in science what they think? I'm betting that someone with say, a physics degree, might have a good idea about how to interpret the science.

Just throwing it out there.

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Reality Internet Personality

How important is it, really? I see global warming as trivial compared to what is likely to happen sometime soon. That likely scenario has come within minutes at least twice since the 1960's. Perhaps more. Once in 1962 and again in 1980. Then there's 1995. When it happens, and I believe it will, global warming, climate change or whatever will be a moot point as far as living things are concerned. It's not in the forefront of our minds right now, but it should be.

That scenario is nuclear war. We've come so close so many times and all it takes is one crazy or an accident to trigger it. I don't know the outcome, but I don't believe it will be good.

We have more important things to worry about than a warming of the planet. If we don't survive the nuclear threat, there will be no one left to worry about what happens after.

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/issues/accidents/20-mishaps-maybe-caused-nuclear-war.htm

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Jack

Meanwhile, for your cycles... Have you any notion of how such cycles happen and how fast?...

No and nether do you.

Go over to CPDN and you can see it all happen before your very eyes.

I can look out the window and can see with my very eyes that the snow has finely melted from one of the coldest winters ever.

Very good.

Now... Do you wonder why and how?

Or is it that 'things just (randomly) happen'?


Keep searchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Meanwhile, for your cycles... Have you any notion of how such cycles happen and how fast?...

No and nether do you.

Go over to CPDN and you can see it all happen before your very eyes.

I can look out the window and can see with my very eyes that the snow has finely melted from one of the coldest winters ever.

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Meanwhile, for your cycles... Have you any notion of how such cycles happen and how fast?...

No and nether do you.

Go over to CPDN and you can see it all happen before your very eyes.

The hard part is to actually follow enough of the detail to see why what happens... It is all very physical.

The significant quickly changing factor is the amount of pollution that we are adding to our world... Nothing else has changed so significantly in the last 200 years... And that is far far faster than any natural cycles...

The really scary thing about all this is that we have had various scientists accurately predicting all this from as far back as 200 years ago! All that we are doing now is adding ever more fine detail.


We can only go on icing our cake for so long. Reality and the real world continue. Unfortunately, we are very definitely polluting ourselves into hell.

We long left the natural cycle soon after we embarked on our industrial revolution. (Do I score extra points for bad puns? ;-) )


All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Meanwhile, for your cycles... Have you any notion of how such cycles happen and how fast?...

No and nether do you.

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... like with religion, they believe what they feel not what they know is fact.

As with religion all I know is what I observe. I know a 1 1/2 mile thick sheet of ice stopped flowing in my back yard. How do I know this? Because of the amount of boulders and rocks there wile they are absent 100 miles to the south. So I KNOW FOR A FACT the earth warms and cools in cycles...

Very good, only so far.

You can blindly trust in the religion imposed upon you by others. Usually that is helpful for good morals and a good feel-good factor. However, that only helps so far and can ignore the real world around you. Or are real-world calamaties covered by the "wrath of god" or "pestilence" 'get-out' clauses for when 'things happen'?

Meanwhile, for your cycles... Have you any notion of how such cycles happen and how fast?...

You see, if you cared to look, you will see that we have leapt off the present natural cycle and we are instead pushing the entire planet ever more quickly into a whole new uncomfortable world. All previous examples that we look to be rushing into all did not have Man in existence...


We really have overtaken even the worst of what the fire and brimstone of "God's (or The Devil's)" volcanoes can do. In that respect, with our industry, we have become our own god.

You can bang your rocks all you like. You need to look further around you for what is happening today.


All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Skepticism means you want to be convinced by scientific evidence or sound logic. Climate skeptics repeatedly ignore the vast majority of scientific finding in favor of cherry picking the results of a tiny amount of often dubious scientific studies to support their claim.

99 and 44/100% of the people personally can't understand a scientific paper so, like with religion, they believe what they feel not what they know is fact.

As with religion all I know is what I observe. I know a 1 1/2 mile thick sheet of ice stopped flowing in my back yard. How do I know this? Because of the amount of boulders and rocks there wile they are absent 100 miles to the south. So I KNOW FOR A FACT the earth warms and cools in cycles. US are doing a 110% better then we were in way back when. I remember when one could almost walk across the Hudson river on the pollution. Today in the fall tropical fish once again swim there.

It seems to me some people think man is the ultimate cause of everything when in fact they are merely a violent congratulation of vapor strutting around on the stage and in the end signifying nothing. Think don't feel.

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hSkepticism, IMV, is a healthy thing. It's easy to be skeptical when wild predictions don't come to be. The darling of the global warming crowd, Al Gore, predicted the N. ice cap would be gone by 2013. That was a year ago and it's still there.

Skepticism means you want to be convinced by scientific evidence or sound logic. Climate skeptics repeatedly ignore the vast majority of scientific finding in favor of cherry picking the results of a tiny amount of often dubious scientific studies to support their claim. Just because you like to call yourself a skeptic doesn't mean you actually are.

Certainly we need to build up our nuclear energy production capacity. And our hydrocarbons as well.

:/

I would add "learn to use them safely" or , at least, more so. Solar and wind is not the total answer. Until we find something that is, we need nuclear and fossil to survive.

Plus one there... but it's still a big "HUH?!" for me on the hydrocarbon front. Increasing them is a HUGE mistake and solves absolutely nothing at all... but I'll stop there before I begin banging on about trees again :)

[quote
Certainly we need to build up our nuclear energy production capacity. And our hydrocarbons as well.[/quote]

:/[/quote]

I would add "learn to use them safely" or , at least, more so. Solar and wind is not the total answer. Until we find something that is, we need nuclear and fossil to survive.

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Jack

I believe the media is mostly at "fault" for taking theory as fact and feeding it to the public that way. That's where the general public gets its information. Then it's picked up by the "Chicken Littles" amongst us and the drum beat begins.

Something like this you mean (a comment (posted seven years ago) on the article from your link) bold added by little me :)

The case that we will have another glaciation is basically cut and dried. We have the capacity to cool the earth. We have no such capacity to warm the earth. In order to avoid another glaciation we ought to be looking at ways to hose down volcanic aerosols or something.

Certainly we need to build up our nuclear energy production capacity. And our hydrocarbons as well.

:/

I believe the media is mostly at "fault" for taking theory as fact and feeding it to the public that way. That's where the general public gets its information. Then it's picked up by the "Chicken Littles" amongst us and the drum beat begins.

Skepticism, IMV, is a healthy thing. It's easy to be skeptical when wild predictions don't come to be. The darling of the global warming crowd, Al Gore, predicted the N. ice cap would be gone by 2013. That was a year ago and it's still there.

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Jack

... Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age...

Except...

They were not.

Sorry to spoil that old oft-repeated myth...


Martin

I was there.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

So was I, though probably a bit on the young side for reading scientific papers :)

Hi Jack :) How are you?

In addition to Es's reply...

From the page you linked:

The fact is that around 1970 there were 6 times as many scientists predicting a warming rather than a cooling planet.

So that's around 86% swinging to... well the current figures claim 97% are predicting warming so... ooh... I don't think I've got my maths wrong but I may have to come back to that :) It doesn't look much of a swing at all. But then, there hasn't been a full pendulum swing away from the earth being flat either :)

As is also pointed out in your link, the media tended to pick up on the ice-age theories as being "more interesting". Hypotheses such as: cold meltwater from icecaps and glaciers shutting off the Gulf stream, so plunging the northern hemisphere into a permanent winter - is easy to write an editorial about. It can go to press long before scientists have finished the much more painstaking work of turning it into a proper testable theory and/or ruling it out on the basis of known scientific principles. And we are advancing those with every passing day - so I personally don't mind if properly done science does result in some shift in the pendulum at times :)

Thanks for the interesting thread though :)

I was there.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

I remember that; that was about the time science told us we are running out of fossil fuel.

Indeed it was. I'd forgotten that. According to the predictions then, we should be back in the stone age now.

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Jack

I was there.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

I remember that; that was about the time science told us we are running out of fossil fuel.

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That may be true. I've read articles that say as much. My point is that what is true today may not be true tomorrow. Things change. Pollution caused cooling...now it's causing warming. Something may happen tomorrow to change the cycle to go the other way again. I've heard that global temps have been stable for the past ~15 years. It won't stay stable and when it starts to move again, who's to say it will continue climbing? It could start back down....depending on that happens in the meantime. The future is impossible to predict. Climate is fluid and constantly changing, along with everything else.

That's not to say we should destroy our planet, but we shouldn't panic either. If we spent our dollars researching ways to improve the emissions from what we have while looking for newer energy resources...maybe we could have our cake and eat it too.

The old saw "Haste make waste" is very true.

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Jack

... Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age...

Except...

They were not.

Sorry to spoil that old oft-repeated myth...


Martin

I was there.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

There was a cooling effect caused by pollution. The air was cleaned up and we pumped so much CO2 into the air that greenhouse gases became the biggest driver of the climate.

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Reality Internet Personality

... Forty years ago scientist were warning of a pending ice age...

Except...

They were not.

Sorry to spoil that old oft-repeated myth...


Martin

I was there.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

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Jack