ASK (ASC) is very prone to degradation and distortion over long distances. Just think back to the "good old days" of listening to SW signals fading, "bubbling", etc., where the depth of modulation of the signal varies with time - the same happens with ASK. Even morse code and other "all/nothing" coding suffer from this effect.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Thanks Bob! I'm zeroing in on how I would send a signal if I were basking on some exoplanet...

Dave

There are a couple of issues with your proposed encoding system, first is, polarisation can be affected very significantly of stellar distances, what started out as one polarisation can be "smudged" into another, or one can be totally "lost". When working with nulls, you need to ensure that their is adequate synchronisation, or accurate timing, and repeated nulls can all to readily be miss interpreted as loss of signal. In designing encoding techniques for long distances you have to be very careful to ensure that both ends will know what is expected to make a valid message so can perform on the fly checks.

Now this thread makes sense:) Thanx Rob:) No offense to mathematicians.

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rOZZ
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It's ironic how interesting math is for me now that I have a "reason" for it to be so, even math without a practical application. My teachers in school weren't very motivating - the math was all taught by rote, with none of the mysterious joy that really exists.

It's ironic how interesting math is for me now that I have a "reason" for it to be so, even math without a practical application. My teachers in school weren't very motivating - the math was all taught by rote, with none of the mysterious joy that really exists.

I love maths! :) It's magic with numbers. :)

Yeah, it is! So many amazing... I hate to say coincidences, but interesting patterns and oddities.

+1

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rOZZ
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Hello all :)

This seems the most appropriate thread to post this in, but, I was intrigued by the question even more than the answer :) which could mean it might belong in a different thread... perhaps?

Anyway - here it is:

Why Math is the “Language of the Universe?

And this was the question being answered:

I’ve always wondered why is it mathematics is considered the “universal language” in physics and the explanation of the natural world. What is the possibility of different civilizations (here on earth) and different life forms (else where in the cosmos) using some other complex language/method to understand the universe, opposed to mathematics?

I wish that either I'd had the presence of mind to become interested in math as a kid (or I wish I'd had motivating teachers, but that's just shifting the blame).

One of my all time favourite questions! Thanx for the link Annie:)

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rOZZ
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Yes indeed, as a student and professor of logic , statistics , physics and mathematics I weep with the profound understanding that math underlies reality. In a discussion with a dear mathematics department head at one of our local universities we argued whether math was just out there waiting to be discovered or that it was a purely abstract invention of the human mind to explain the physical world around us.

This is a fascinating discussion : consider rolling a pair of dice say 100,000 times. You will soon observe a discrete version of the Normal (Gaussian) curve emerging when you plot the frequency distribution. It just jumps up out of an individual (for one die) flat distribution. So you say, "why is that" , You could say that it is an invention of Man but if you look into the equation of the Gaussian curve you find the constant "e" which relates to a pure growth process.


As for the Trilemma in the cited article--that is certainly incorrect thinking. In the Zermello-Frankel axiomatic set theory and logic system upon which we base our logic and thereby Mathematics: proofs rely on only a handful of axioms that are correctly proven and therefore "True".

That is not to say that all truths can be proven within the system (Godel); but those that are proven are sound and correct.

I wish that either I'd had the presence of mind to become interested in math as a kid (or I wish I'd had motivating teachers, but that's just shifting the blame).

Hi Dave :)
It's not really shifting the blame - it only takes one good teacher to inspire us when we're young, and to build up our confidence in ourselves. Unfortunately with maths - too often the blame is unfairly shifted onto the shoulders of the child (not always the teacher's fault given their heavy workload) and the magic of what can be done with numbers is instantly lost to them and rarely regained. :(

@William Rothamel - loved your post! Thank you - and thank you for confirming that my dizzy spell (on reading the bit about Munchhausen's Trilemma) wasn't my fault but his :)

Julie - it's a brilliant question isn't it :) The only other "language" I think that could even come close to maths is music (okay everyone - I'm blindfolded and up against the wall ready for the firing squad :)) I know it's fanciful, but music always seems well... mathematical to me... :) weird? most definitely probably :)

Ah, but for the most post music IS mathematical. Not sure about the work of John Cage and similar composers.

Ah, but for the most post music IS mathematical. Not sure about the work of John Cage and similar composers.

:) I get a distinct sense that some jazz (though not all) encompasses mathematical probability - which is why both make me want to chew on a wall :)

But we do have a very limited hearing range - so much of the "music" around us we can only guess at or simulate for our purposes - similar perhaps to everything we still have to learn about the universe? :)

[*Ready! Aim! FIRE!* :)]

I wish that either I'd had the presence of mind to become interested in math as a kid (or I wish I'd had motivating teachers, but that's just shifting the blame).

Hi Dave :)
It's not really shifting the blame - it only takes one good teacher to inspire us when we're young, and to build up our confidence in ourselves. Unfortunately with maths - too often the blame is unfairly shifted onto the shoulders of the child (not always the teacher's fault given their heavy workload) and the magic of what can be done with numbers is instantly lost to them and rarely regained. :(

@William Rothamel - loved your post! Thank you - and thank you for confirming that my dizzy spell (on reading the bit about Munchhausen's Trilemma) wasn't my fault but his :)

Julie - it's a brilliant question isn't it :) The only other "language" I think that could even come close to maths is music (okay everyone - I'm blindfolded and up against the wall ready for the firing squad :)) I know it's fanciful, but music always seems well... mathematical to me... :) weird? most definitely probably :)

Math, music and love! (almost sounds like sex, drugs and rock 'n roll:))

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Someone just called me a troll... not liking it.

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rOZZ
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Someone just called me a troll... not liking it.

*several minutes of astonished blinking* Pardon...? :(

End stage rabies sufferer was it?

Well... with apologies to Dave for going suddenly very off-topic... that's enough to make my hair stand on end that is...



anniet's reasoning: -->looks alien-esque-->will pass moderator scrutiny) :)

Lol Annie:)) This person excused herself for the confusion, all is well now:)

Back to maths now...

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rOZZ
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No complaints from me, I'd rather see her reputation for friendliness be acknowledged. ; )