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Sirius B Project Donor
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Message 1613847 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 13:42:49 UTC - in response to Message 1613533.  

One thing for sure, Sirius, Enoch always had his eye on the wider picture on
things....something that is sorely missing regarding our current political
classes.

Jeebers Sir Nick, I know we're close to Xmas, but that miracle is unobtainable!
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Message 1613881 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 15:14:28 UTC - in response to Message 1613847.  

One thing for sure, Sirius, Enoch always had his eye on the wider picture on
things....something that is sorely missing regarding our current political
classes.

Jeebers Sir Nick, I know we're close to Xmas, but that miracle is unobtainable!

Baron Sirius, we live in hope.
The Kite Fliers

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belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1613883 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 15:17:26 UTC - in response to Message 1613881.  
Last modified: 14 Dec 2014, 15:21:12 UTC

One thing for sure, Sirius, Enoch always had his eye on the wider picture on
things....something that is sorely missing regarding our current political
classes.

Jeebers Sir Nick, I know we're close to Xmas, but that miracle is unobtainable!

Baron Sirius, we live in hope.

Yep, I've met her & she's very amenable, so much that I've lived with her for 40 years!
BTW, please demote me. Elevating me to the House of Lords is like giving me the keys to the harem :-)
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Message 1613914 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 17:30:10 UTC - in response to Message 1613883.  

One thing for sure, Sirius, Enoch always had his eye on the wider picture on
things....something that is sorely missing regarding our current political
classes.

Jeebers Sir Nick, I know we're close to Xmas, but that miracle is unobtainable!

Baron Sirius, we live in hope.

Yep, I've met her & she's very amenable, so much that I've lived with her for 40 years!
BTW, please demote me. Elevating me to the House of Lords is like giving me the keys to the harem :-)

Males are only given those keys after an operation ....
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Message 1613916 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 17:32:04 UTC - in response to Message 1613914.  

It was a joke Gary. Saying that though, the Lib-Dems have been pretty free with their zippers!
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Message 1613920 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 17:37:45 UTC

Are people actually defending Enoch Powell in this thread? I thought it was horrible enough that people were defending torture and avoided this thread because I didn't want to lose total faith in humanity.

Well that's done it. I didn't actually think Britain had slid so far along the road to fascism that people would publicly defend Enoch Powell.
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Message 1613923 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 17:53:07 UTC - in response to Message 1613920.  

Are people actually defending Enoch Powell in this thread? I thought it was horrible enough that people were defending torture and avoided this thread because I didn't want to lose total faith in humanity.

Well that's done it. I didn't actually think Britain had slid so far along the road to fascism that people would publicly defend Enoch Powell.


ES, Immigration without integration is the problem here and not just for the
UK either. Immigration can work wonders for a country but without full
integration we end up getting separation, and it's this separation that breeds
racism.
The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1613924 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 18:03:43 UTC - in response to Message 1613920.  

Are people actually defending Enoch Powell in this thread? I thought it was horrible enough that people were defending torture and avoided this thread because I didn't want to lose total faith in humanity.

Well that's done it. I didn't actually think Britain had slid so far along the road to fascism that people would publicly defend Enoch Powell.

That's torn it! So now I'm a fascist for stating that a speech from a mainly disliked politician was right & to decry a country because of that?
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Message 1613925 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 18:08:09 UTC - in response to Message 1613923.  

Are people actually defending Enoch Powell in this thread? I thought it was horrible enough that people were defending torture and avoided this thread because I didn't want to lose total faith in humanity.

Well that's done it. I didn't actually think Britain had slid so far along the road to fascism that people would publicly defend Enoch Powell.


ES, Immigration without integration is the problem here and not just for the
UK either. Immigration can work wonders for a country but without full
integration we end up getting separation, and it's this separation that breeds
racism.

So is that the immigrants fault? Does attacking the immigrants help integration or make it harder?

Be careful what you say, because I am an immigrant.
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Message 1613926 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 18:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 1613925.  

Are people actually defending Enoch Powell in this thread? I thought it was horrible enough that people were defending torture and avoided this thread because I didn't want to lose total faith in humanity.

Well that's done it. I didn't actually think Britain had slid so far along the road to fascism that people would publicly defend Enoch Powell.


ES, Immigration without integration is the problem here and not just for the
UK either. Immigration can work wonders for a country but without full
integration we end up getting separation, and it's this separation that breeds
racism.

So is that the immigrants fault? Does attacking the immigrants help integration or make it harder?

Be careful what you say, because I am an immigrant.

As am I & often stood up for this country. That does not make me a fascist!
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Message 1613927 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 18:25:23 UTC - in response to Message 1613926.  

Are people actually defending Enoch Powell in this thread? I thought it was horrible enough that people were defending torture and avoided this thread because I didn't want to lose total faith in humanity.

Well that's done it. I didn't actually think Britain had slid so far along the road to fascism that people would publicly defend Enoch Powell.


ES, Immigration without integration is the problem here and not just for the
UK either. Immigration can work wonders for a country but without full
integration we end up getting separation, and it's this separation that breeds
racism.

So is that the immigrants fault? Does attacking the immigrants help integration or make it harder?

Be careful what you say, because I am an immigrant.

As am I & often stood up for this country. That does not make me a fascist!

attacking one group of people who are probably one of the more vulnerable groups and laying blame for the ills of the country at their feet does though. Which is what Enoch and his ilk do.

The country has gone to the dogs because it has been mismanaged. Not because of immigration. A global recession was caused because of deregulation of the banks based on free market ideology. Not because of immigrants.

The recession in Britain was made worse because a certain group of elites seized power and used "austerity" to roll back all the social programs that supported the economy and the middle class. The problems in Britain were not because of immigration. In fact with an ageing population you need immigrants. If the problem is with integration then you need to support integration. Which somehow I really doubt the likes of Enoch Powell and Farage do.
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Message 1613930 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 18:32:17 UTC - in response to Message 1613927.  

attacking one group of people who are probably one of the more vulnerable groups and laying blame for the ills of the country at their feet does though. Which is what Enoch and his ilk do.

The country has gone to the dogs because it has been mismanaged. Not because of immigration. A global recession was caused because of deregulation of the banks based on free market ideology. Not because of immigrants.

The recession in Britain was made worse because a certain group of elites seized power and used "austerity" to roll back all the social programs that supported the economy and the middle class. The problems in Britain were not because of immigration. In fact with an ageing population you need immigrants. If the problem is with integration then you need to support integration. Which somehow I really doubt the likes of Enoch Powell and Farage do.

Good post, really it is. However, you've missed the most important point that was stated here: - Unbridled immigration.

Most other countries allow immigration but it is controlled to a decent degree. This country has no controls in place.

I cannot see any reference from any post that attacks immigrants, so your statement of fascism is insulting, not only to the natives of this country, but also the immigrants here who are saying exactly the same thing, & there are many doing so.
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Message 1613938 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 18:55:30 UTC - in response to Message 1613930.  

attacking one group of people who are probably one of the more vulnerable groups and laying blame for the ills of the country at their feet does though. Which is what Enoch and his ilk do.

The country has gone to the dogs because it has been mismanaged. Not because of immigration. A global recession was caused because of deregulation of the banks based on free market ideology. Not because of immigrants.

The recession in Britain was made worse because a certain group of elites seized power and used "austerity" to roll back all the social programs that supported the economy and the middle class. The problems in Britain were not because of immigration. In fact with an ageing population you need immigrants. If the problem is with integration then you need to support integration. Which somehow I really doubt the likes of Enoch Powell and Farage do.

Good post, really it is. However, you've missed the most important point that was stated here: - Unbridled immigration.

Most other countries allow immigration but it is controlled to a decent degree. This country has no controls in place.

I cannot see any reference from any post that attacks immigrants, so your statement of fascism is insulting, not only to the natives of this country, but also the immigrants here who are saying exactly the same thing, & there are many doing so.

I was talking about Enoch Powell. Here is his speech. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643826/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html Its a long rant about how he is scared of being outnumbered by people who aren't like him. He goes on to attack black people (noisy dirty and loud) and Sikh's (with weird religious rites).

You try to tell me that's not racist and that you support a man who said these things and I will think you are supporting fascism. Its up to you to then explain to me how you can support him and not be supporting his beliefs. I don't get it. If you think uncontrolled immigration is a problem because of ... and then you quote Enoch Powell I am going to strongly suspect your reasons for not wanting people of different races in the country.
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Message 1613943 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 19:21:53 UTC - in response to Message 1613938.  

From that same article...

"I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking - not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history."

So I'm in good company then!

"In the hundreds upon hundreds of letters I received when I last spoke on this subject two or three months ago, there was one striking feature which was largely new and which I find ominous. All Members of Parliament are used to the typical anonymous correspondent; but what surprised and alarmed me was the high proportion of ordinary, decent, sensible people, writing a rational and often well-educated letter, who believed that they had to omit their address because it was dangerous to have committed themselves to paper to a Member of Parliament agreeing with the views I had expressed, and that they would risk penalties or reprisals if they were known to have done so. The sense of being a persecuted minority which is growing among ordinary English people in the areas of the country which are affected is something that those without direct experience can hardly imagine."

No offence Es, but as seen in the Racist thread to which I have already posted...

...how is it that whenever the "RACISM" card is played, it always boils down to Black v White?

Nobody to date has answered the elephant in the room that my post raised...

...until we all admit that everyone of us is racist in our everyday actions, how the hell can we discuss colour prejudice?

Also, where have I stated that I support Enoch Powell? All I agreed with was his views on unbridled immigration

Unless you are 100% certain that I'm a fascist racist, I would hold off making accusations of that type.
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Message 1613978 - Posted: 14 Dec 2014, 20:37:05 UTC - in response to Message 1613927.  



ES, Immigration without integration is the problem here and not just for the
UK either. Immigration can work wonders for a country but without full
integration we end up getting separation, and it's this separation that breeds
racism.

So is that the immigrants fault? Does attacking the immigrants help integration or make it harder?

Be careful what you say, because I am an immigrant.

As am I & often stood up for this country. That does not make me a fascist!

attacking one group of people who are probably one of the more vulnerable groups and laying blame for the ills of the country at their feet does though. Which is what Enoch and his ilk do.

The country has gone to the dogs because it has been mismanaged. Not because of immigration. A global recession was caused because of deregulation of the banks based on free market ideology. Not because of immigrants.

The recession in Britain was made worse because a certain group of elites seized power and used "austerity" to roll back all the social programs that supported the economy and the middle class. The problems in Britain were not because of immigration. In fact with an ageing population you need immigrants. If the problem is with integration then you need to support integration. Which somehow I really doubt the likes of Enoch Powell and Farage do.


Now we're getting some where, ES. Yes, support integration and avoid separation. To do this then the most effective way would be by limiting the
amount of immigrants first coming in to a country. This then limits their
chances of choosing to colonise a particular area of that country. The next
stage one would then expect these immigrants to breed with the indigenous
population and at this stage we gain the greatest potential from having
immigration.
The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1614134 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 10:29:16 UTC - in response to Message 1613978.  

That would be nice, unfortunately, those at the top have their own agenda than the peons below them...

MP's told not to focus on immigration

...nothing new from Liebour.

The Joker's smile - wonder if he will remain smiling for much longer
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Message 1614321 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 19:57:44 UTC

Here is the full episode of question time with Nigel Farage and Russell Brand.

The panel are lack-lustre, but the audience are great. Clearly the British public is still as cynical and outspoken as ever. They know its all a sham and they seem rightfully fed up with the talking heads.

BBC Question Time 11/12/2014 Russell Brand Nigel Farage
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Message 1614384 - Posted: 15 Dec 2014, 22:08:43 UTC - in response to Message 1614321.  
Last modified: 15 Dec 2014, 22:09:24 UTC

Here is the full episode of question time with Nigel Farage and Russell Brand.
The panel are lack-lustre, but the audience are great. Clearly the British public is still as cynical and outspoken as ever. They know its all a sham and they seem rightfully fed up with the talking heads.
BBC Question Time 11/12/2014 Russell Brand Nigel Farage

Thanks very much for the link.
This is Europe today.
Nigel Farage speaking about that Britain is overcrowded:)
Such nonsense.
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Message 1614560 - Posted: 16 Dec 2014, 7:34:02 UTC - in response to Message 1614384.  

Here is the full episode of question time with Nigel Farage and Russell Brand.
The panel are lack-lustre, but the audience are great. Clearly the British public is still as cynical and outspoken as ever. They know its all a sham and they seem rightfully fed up with the talking heads.
BBC Question Time 11/12/2014 Russell Brand Nigel Farage

Thanks very much for the link.
This is Europe today.
Nigel Farage speaking about that Britain is overcrowded:)
Such nonsense.


OK living in Sweden where the population density is only 57 persons per square mile.
Here in the UK it's 650 persons per square mile....nonsense is it?
The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1614623 - Posted: 16 Dec 2014, 11:52:38 UTC - in response to Message 1614560.  
Last modified: 16 Dec 2014, 11:53:54 UTC

Here is the full episode of question time with Nigel Farage and Russell Brand.
The panel are lack-lustre, but the audience are great. Clearly the British public is still as cynical and outspoken as ever. They know its all a sham and they seem rightfully fed up with the talking heads.
BBC Question Time 11/12/2014 Russell Brand Nigel Farage

Thanks very much for the link.
This is Europe today.
Nigel Farage speaking about that Britain is overcrowded:)
Such nonsense.

OK living in Sweden where the population density is only 57 persons per square mile.
Here in the UK it's 650 persons per square mile....nonsense is it?

I thought that most of the population are living in cities.
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