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Message 1489705 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 12:57:19 UTC

The Mail as usual thinks it has the answer.

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Message 1489707 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 13:00:46 UTC


Do enlighten me then :)

Ok then try this for an example. The people on the plane are expendable and of no use because they are not required for the plan of the terrorists, but the plane is.

From several news reports connected with this flight,
A plot created by Malaysian Islamists to hijack the Malaysia Airlines plane in a 9/11-style attack is being investigated, it comes after al-Qaeda informant Saajid Badat, a British-born Muslim from Gloucester, told a court that a group of Malaysian men had been planning to take control of a plane, using a bomb hidden in a shoe to blow open the cockpit door.
Security experts said his evidence was “credible”.

Now you should know about suicide bombers surely.

Now can you imagine the damage that could be caused by a plane of that size being packed with explosives and deliberately flown into the center of a large city?

This is just speculation of course, but very possible as a lot of those air strips (previously mentioned) are on islands or in countries that are very sympathetic to terrorist groups.

Are you starting to feel a little enlightened now?
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Message 1489712 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 13:33:18 UTC - in response to Message 1489705.  

The Mail as usual thinks it has the answer.

Mail


"Police investigate data from home flight simulator of captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53

Investigators speak of his 'obsessive' support for opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim

Police officers fear Ibrahim being jailed could have left Shah profoundly upset

Flight MH370 disappeared more than a week ago with 239 people on board

Despite a huge multinational search effort, no signs of the plane or a crash have been found

Malaysian Prime Minister said yesterday that the plane was deliberately steered off course

FBI experts say disappearance could be ‘act of piracy’, suggesting passengers are being held"

All major points which have been raised by the relevant authorities, so further proof that rather than post relevant comments, you show your intense hatred of the media, especially the Daily Mail.

It's time you stopped flogging the horse as its died!
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Message 1489718 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 13:57:44 UTC
Last modified: 16 Mar 2014, 13:59:09 UTC

MOST of this is Speculation and Rumor.

The REAL problem, is that NO ONE is in charge of the investigation.

Somehow, I don't know Who/How, ONE Agency/Government must be in charge.

Many years ago, I worked closely with the US N.T.S.B. (National Transportation and Safety Board), regarding a fatal crash of a 707. I, and the other's, found them to be extremely competent and professional.

Maybe them, or at least SOMEONE!
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Message 1489719 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 14:00:08 UTC

Now can you imagine the damage that could be caused by a plane of that size being packed with explosives and deliberately flown into the center of a large city?

This has come up before, there was a documentary some years ago about such a scenario happening. If an unidentified airliner was confirmed on radar to have entered UK airspace, and radio calls to it were not responded to, then RAF Jets would be scrambled to intercept it within minutes if not seconds. If visual contact received no responses, and the aircrafts course was towards a large City, The jets would try to "escort" it out of UK airspace. If that failed authorisation for destruction would be sought.

That would normally be given by the PM, and the decision to take it down over a minimally populated area possibly involving hundreds of lives, would be weighed against the lives of thousands if it were allowed to continue on its course. I have flown on both a 777 and a 747, they are massive aeroplanes. One of them crashing into London Waterloo station in the rush hour would be Armageddon.

There is much speculation about this missing aircraft at the moment, and all we can really do is wait and see.
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Message 1489722 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 14:12:35 UTC
Last modified: 16 Mar 2014, 14:33:26 UTC

Self-edited.

Sirius: Yes i probably would, personally i didn't think it that insensitive, but people on this board have been known to overreact, so i'll remove it before anything gets thrown.

I tell you what i'd be doing if my parents had been on that plane: sitting at home waiting for news, while people who know what they're doing far better than i do conduct what i'm sure is a diligent and thorough search.
What i wouldn't be doing is shouting at airline staff, crying to the press, and generally causing a nuisance.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1489723 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 14:26:34 UTC - in response to Message 1489722.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2014, 15:16:42 UTC

For a graduate, that is an insensitive post. Would you have made it if your parents were aboard that aircraft?

Apologies Simonator, I found it insensitive due to the fact that 239 are either missing or dead and with our so called marvellous technological era we live in, 8 days with no sign?
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Message 1489724 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 14:30:55 UTC
Last modified: 16 Mar 2014, 14:34:46 UTC

I doubt that if that was the plan that they'd target a western city, but maybe after a repaint and transponder changes my guess would be, in this case, a Malaysian city or some other city in a country where air space security isn't so good.

Also if the plane had gone down in the sea/ocean I reckon that debris would've been found by now as that part of the world has a lot of busy shipping lanes and the debris would've been spread out by currents over a very large area.

But it is just speculation.

Cheers.
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Message 1489779 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 17:17:37 UTC - in response to Message 1489707.  


Do enlighten me then :)

Ok then try this for an example. The people on the plane are expendable and of no use because they are not required for the plan of the terrorists, but the plane is.

From several news reports connected with this flight,
A plot created by Malaysian Islamists to hijack the Malaysia Airlines plane in a 9/11-style attack is being investigated, it comes after al-Qaeda informant Saajid Badat, a British-born Muslim from Gloucester, told a court that a group of Malaysian men had been planning to take control of a plane, using a bomb hidden in a shoe to blow open the cockpit door.
Security experts said his evidence was “credible”.

Now you should know about suicide bombers surely.

Now can you imagine the damage that could be caused by a plane of that size being packed with explosives and deliberately flown into the center of a large city?

This is just speculation of course, but very possible as a lot of those air strips (previously mentioned) are on islands or in countries that are very sympathetic to terrorist groups.

Are you starting to feel a little enlightened now?

No. What is the point of terrorism if no one knows that what you did was actually terrorism? Hijacking serves a purpose, namely publicity. You hijack a plane, let the world know you hijacked the plane and then you make demands. Or you blow up the plane in midair and you let the world know that you blew up said plane. So if this was terrorism, then why hasn't anyone claimed responsibility for it yet?

I'm not saying its not terrorism, I'm just saying I don't find it likely when there is no one to claim it was terrorism.
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Message 1489813 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 19:17:06 UTC - in response to Message 1489779.  

I'm not saying its not terrorism, I'm just saying I don't find it likely when there is no one to claim it was terrorism.


That's okay if one believes that terrorists are still as dumb as they used to be. However, if this is a new terror tactic, it's a damned highly effective one. Just look at what it is costing for starters....

....if it broke up at altitude, then wreckage would be strewn over a wide area. However what throws a curve into that is that radar had the aircraft climb to 45000 then back to 23000 feet as well as using evasion maneuverers.

If that proves to be the case, then it has landed somewhere, why & for what purpose is anyone's guess, but to rule out terrorism at this stage is naïve.
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Message 1489823 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 19:56:29 UTC

I would venture to suggest that there may well be secret military radar or satellites that could have picked up the last moments of this flight, but which for obvious reasons, may not be being made public. We just don't know yet.
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Message 1489837 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 20:28:08 UTC - in response to Message 1489813.  

I'm not saying its not terrorism, I'm just saying I don't find it likely when there is no one to claim it was terrorism.


That's okay if one believes that terrorists are still as dumb as they used to be. However, if this is a new terror tactic, it's a damned highly effective one. Just look at what it is costing for starters....

....if it broke up at altitude, then wreckage would be strewn over a wide area. However what throws a curve into that is that radar had the aircraft climb to 45000 then back to 23000 feet as well as using evasion maneuverers.

If that proves to be the case, then it has landed somewhere, why & for what purpose is anyone's guess, but to rule out terrorism at this stage is naïve.

Im not ruling it out, but to say at this stage with any degree of confidence that it were terrorists is also to soon.

And no, a terror attack that leaves everyone wondering if it was a terror attack or an accident is not effective. The idea of terrorism is to spread terror, not confusion about what just happened.
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Message 1489842 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 20:36:27 UTC - in response to Message 1489837.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2014, 20:48:55 UTC

And no, a terror attack that leaves everyone wondering if it was a terror attack or an accident is not effective. The idea of terrorism is to spread terror, not confusion about what just happened.


Really? If it is a new tactic and successfully carried out enough times, would you step aboard an aircraft without any worries?

If the answer is yes.........


.....or would you be the first to declare the area a "Malayan Triangle?"
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Message 1489875 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 22:28:29 UTC - in response to Message 1489842.  

And no, a terror attack that leaves everyone wondering if it was a terror attack or an accident is not effective. The idea of terrorism is to spread terror, not confusion about what just happened.


Really? If it is a new tactic and successfully carried out enough times, would you step aboard an aircraft without any worries?

If the answer is yes.........


.....or would you be the first to declare the area a "Malayan Triangle?"

Terrorists generally do not work on some long term strategy that requires several successful attacks before they are even recognized as terrorism. Besides, hijackings have been around for a while, they are going to need to hijack a lot of planes in a short time span to actually scare people into thinking that planes aren't safe anymore.
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Message 1489883 - Posted: 16 Mar 2014, 22:43:22 UTC
Last modified: 16 Mar 2014, 23:17:53 UTC

I would venture to suggest that there may well be secret military radar or satellites that could have picked up the last moments of this flight, but which for obvious reasons, may not be being made public. We just don't know yet.


Exactly. US has knOwn frOm Day One. Wat Da US knOws. Aarrrgh. Mind BOogling. yOu dOn't wAnt da Vrold tO knOw. NatSec Man, NatSec.

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Message 1489955 - Posted: 17 Mar 2014, 4:39:58 UTC - in response to Message 1489823.  
Last modified: 17 Mar 2014, 4:40:35 UTC

I would venture to suggest that there may well be secret military radar or satellites that could have picked up the last moments of this flight, but which for obvious reasons, may not be being made public. We just don't know yet.

Not in that part of the World.

For some reason, people believe that the Entire Planet is Blanketed in Radar, Satellite's, etc.

Many of these countries military radar's are inoperative, not manned, nor calibrated since their installation. They are failed Countries, failed Government's, with failed Military's.

If this happened over Western Europe, or North America, (understanding many civilian radar's are turned off during the evening), a different story.
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Message 1489976 - Posted: 17 Mar 2014, 5:43:33 UTC

Id have to say thats probally true. We know that the tsunami warnings and sensors in that part of the world is lacking, And they need it the most. Why would we assume they have state of the art radar and tracking.

However that being said The US and the UK maintain bases in the Indian ocean. I would belive that the radars there would track an aircraft from afar.

When I was stationed at Shemya AFB Alaska. The phased array radar we had could see from Northern Japan, Well into Russia and the Coast of Alaska itself.

It behooves a military installation to know who is in the sky and where they are going. I belive this story hasnt been told yet.
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Message 1490034 - Posted: 17 Mar 2014, 8:44:31 UTC

UK airspace is monitored in real time 24/7 both commercially and militarily. It stems initially from the Cold War where if Russia was going to lob an ICBM at us at 3am in the morning, we'd want to know about it. Since then, flights over the UK and Northern Europe have increased significantly to require careful Air Control. I would agree that military radar installations out there are not likely to be as sophisticated as Europe, but there are spy satellites up there with a resolution of less than 1 metre on the ground. However it seems that they aren't programmed to track stray airliners.

Spy Sats

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Message 1490051 - Posted: 17 Mar 2014, 10:17:54 UTC - in response to Message 1490034.  

UK airspace is monitored in real time 24/7 both commercially and militarily. It stems initially from the Cold War where if Russia was going to lob an ICBM at us at 3am in the morning, we'd want to know about it. Since then, flights over the UK and Northern Europe have increased significantly to require careful Air Control. I would agree that military radar installations out there are not likely to be as sophisticated as Europe, but there are spy satellites up there with a resolution of less than 1 metre on the ground. However it seems that they aren't programmed to track stray airliners.

Yeah but satellites have to cover an enormous surface. Even with that high resolution it would take a very long time to cover the entire surface of where the plane might have gone down. And if it is indeed crashed into the sea, then by now its probably to late anyways. Satellites are mostly useful if you know where exactly you want to take a peek.

And I'm pretty sure South East Asia has good radars as well. Its just that where the plane went that there are not that many radars. Besides, radars have their limitations. If you fly to low the radar can't detect you, and the further you are from a radar source, the longer it takes for each radar sweep to detect you. Assuming a steadily declining descent far away from an active radar source and then you still get a huge area between the last radar contact and possible crash site.
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Message 1490077 - Posted: 17 Mar 2014, 12:23:06 UTC
Last modified: 17 Mar 2014, 13:18:00 UTC

Trying to take a logical approach to all we know from the media gives the following thoughts. There would be only 4 likely scenarios here.
    1. The aircraft disintegrated in mid air, either due to malfunction or terrorist explosion. In which case after a week, wreckage of some sort would have expected to have been found.

    2. The aircraft crashed into the sea, for whatever reason. Again, after a week, wreckage of some sort would have expected to have been found.

    3. It crash landed on land. Again the same conclusions as above.

    4. It was deliberately flown to a secret location. Transponders were turned off from the cockpit to hide its path, requiring technical flight deck knowledge. Apparently engine transponders cannot be controlled from within the aircraft. If true, which is the latest speculation, then a 777 would need a runway between 5000-7000 feet in length to land and take off safely. That would probably mean a small airport or minor military airfield. It would be a bit impractical to cover it with camouflage netting given its size, so is it in a hangar somewhere. So can't be seen from the ground or the air. But that has the logistics of hiding and feeding over 200 people.

In addition to the ongoing sea search, I would be drawing a circle on a map, estimating the possible flight distance from where it was last heard from given the fuel it had on board. It, or the remains of it, have to logically be within that area. I'd be making a list of every landing strip in that area that could have been used, and highlighting those with hangars big enough to house it.

But none of that speculation, which is all it is at this stage, is of much comfort to the relatives of the 239 people on board. If the whole episode was to make a political point of some kind we would have expected some sort of statement by now. All we can do is to keep looking and wait.

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