... It's not worth that much. it's charity.

Thus quoth ye of absolute and random proclamations...

Care to explain your 'charity'?


All on our only one planet,
Martin

I would expect an 'expert' on renewable to already know that the power grid has to be maintained with constant input and the REAL generating facilities take anywhere from hours to days to bring online.
Therefore, if part of your supply can and does drop off the grid at any second without warning, you CANNOT take the big plants offline..you must keep them running.
Your home generation is worthless.

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

I would expect an 'expert' on renewable to already know that the power grid has to be maintained with constant input and the REAL generating facilities take anywhere from hours to days to bring online.
Therefore, if part of your supply can and does drop off the grid at any second without warning, you CANNOT take the big plants offline..you must keep them running.
Your home generation is worthless.

Don't know of any power generation plants that take days to bring online. There are a mix of "base-load" power plants used with faster response power plants to keep the power generation balanced with the power usage/load. That is required merely to track the normal variation in demand. There is the very famous example of the spikes in demand as everyone goes to make a brew during the adverts interrupting TV shows, fast response generators are made ready to take up the load for those brief periods.

So... Are you arguing that we should ban TV adverts or charge extra for people to (not) watch TV adverts?

Consumers already have paid for the infrastructure costs by paying the 'standing charge' part of their power supply tariff. Any power fed back should be of the same value as that supplied...

Of course, the power companies impose their own pricing structures for their particular business model which will naturally be biased against any independent or small individual generators... Such is the commercialism of monopolies...


Is home power generation really of no value to share with your immediate neighbors? Or even for further down the wires?...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Don't know of any power generation plants that take days to bring online.
Martin

Fission plants from a cold start. There appears to be LOTS you don't know.
I can't reply to anything else there because all you do is describe the system... dunno why...

except for this: "So... Are you arguing that we should ban TV adverts or charge extra for people to (not) watch TV adverts?"

um. whut?

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

Fission plants from a cold start...

And your authoritative quote/source for that is?...

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Fission plants from a cold start...

And your authoritative quote/source for that is?...

may I inquire as to your age?

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

may I inquire as to your age?

Sorry, but you win for the schoolyard banter and for squirming off subject.

You fail miserably for any useful discussion. Confirmed: TROLL

Good luck.
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

may I inquire as to your age?

Sorry, but you win for the schoolyard banter and for squirming off subject.

You fail miserably for any useful discussion. Confirmed: TROLL

Good luck.
Martin

Fair enough. Still, unilateral declaration of victory carries no authority past your skull.

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

They had to get rid of that battery to pretend the systems really pay off at all.

I call BS.

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They had to get rid of that battery to pretend the systems really pay off at all.

I call BS.

I started looking at this like decades ago. I WANTED it to be good.
Yep. The system originally had house storage with the intent of going as close to 24/365 as possible.


Not really relevant. I'm sure you won't argue battery capacity of that size, replaced every 6 to 8 years is gonna improve the payoff time.

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

They had to get rid of that battery to pretend the systems really pay off at all.

I call BS.

here you go. now I'm updated too. It seems that falling battery prices are starting to look like this could come back.

The technology exists, but it comes at a price. Depending on a house's size, location, and consumption, storage adds about 30 percent to the cost of a solar installation, which averages $26,000. Also, batteries need to be replaced every six to 12 years, depending on whether they're used to provide energy at night or strictly as backup systems.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/0427/Want-a-solar-home-Consider-batteries


Except, of course, if the power company HAS to buy your output for what you pay for yours, why would you?

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

Um. No sir, that is a business prospectus. Which is basically a sales pitch.

And so you keep claiming that all my sources are invalid. You just dismissed 51 sources as polls or whatever. Besides the fact that most of those sources were not actually polls and the fact that polls can still come up with relevant, accurate and legitimate information about a given topic, you don't even bother with any sources yourself.

Oh, and whether this is a sales pitch or not, (I somewhat doubt that a bunch of UN people would write an intro for a sales pitch) it still contains data that as far as I can tell has been gathered in an academic sound way.

World energy industry = approximately 5 TRILLION. 250 billion would be 5% of that. 'small' difference

We are looking at investments here, not at the total established market. Its like saying computers had nothing on typewriters back in the 80's. Because computers back then were a new thing, and look where they are now and what happened to typewriters. And if you look at total investments, you see that the difference between renewable energy and old energy is minimal. In other words, renewable energy investments are catching up.

THIS >Your claim that the only reason companies invest in sustainability is because they get fat government subsidies to do it is also total nonsense.<
DOES NOT EQUAL THIS >Sadly, in the West investments in sustainability is down, thanks to government non commitment to setting up policies regarding sustainability.<
Um..well..it speaks for itself.

You missed the part where it said investments were down because the stuff is just dirt cheap. You can build a lot of extra solar panels but if they cost nothing it doesn't look like you invest a lot of money into it.

Also, just because the west has an unstable policy towards renewable energy doesn't mean that policy is subsidies. There could be other ways which make renewable energy investments unattractive for people. There could be subsidies for traditional energy sectors, or what Europe did was close the market for cheap Chinese solar panels in favor of protecting the more expensive European made solar panels.

You will have to come up with actual sources that prove the only reason people invest into renewable industry are subsidies and that the moment those subsidies disappear people don't bother. You will have to prove that subsidies are the only reason those sectors survive and that without subsidies all those companies would go belly up.

Yes? and at what percentage of their total energy infrastructure investment? oh. right. about 5%

Prove it. 5% is a claim, show me evidence that backs that claim up.

Just to lighten things up a bit

Hitler was behind Global Warming

"We will bomb them with drowned Polar Bears"

It's a bit old (from 2009) but its still got some good lines in it, and even Martin will enjoy the jokes about Windows Firewall.

T.A.

I'll add, the only reason a solar install (which i've already said) can pay off for an individual is the fact government regulations force the power company to buy your production for far more than it's worth and you let your neighbors without solar cut you that check.

You clearly haven't read my post then. I explicitly stated that i do not receive the feed-in tariff, meaning that the power company 'buys back' my surplus electricity at exactly the same price as i pay per unit.

your production isn't worth that much. it just isn't.

It clearly is.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Just to lighten things up a bit

Hitler was behind Global Warming

"We will bomb them with drowned Polar Bears"

It's a bit old (from 2009) but its still got some good lines in it, and even Martin will enjoy the jokes about Windows Firewall.

T.A.

I'd heard it was aliens :)

I would expect an 'expert' on renewable to already know that the power grid has to be maintained with constant input and the REAL generating facilities take anywhere from hours to days to bring online.
Therefore, if part of your supply can and does drop off the grid at any second without warning, you CANNOT take the big plants offline..you must keep them running.
Your home generation is worthless.

That would what a 'standing charge' is for. I pay 11p/day standing charge and 13p/unit for the electricity.

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Just to lighten things up a bit

Hitler was behind Global Warming

"We will bomb them with drowned Polar Bears"

It's a bit old (from 2009) but its still got some good lines in it, and even Martin will enjoy the jokes about Windows Firewall.

T.A.

I'd heard it was aliens :)

That explains it...;)

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I'll add, the only reason a solar install (which i've already said) can pay off for an individual is the fact government regulations force the power company to buy your production for far more than it's worth and you let your neighbors without solar cut you that check.

You clearly haven't read my post then. I explicitly stated that i do not receive the feed-in tariff, meaning that the power company 'buys back' my surplus electricity at exactly the same price as i pay per unit.

your production isn't worth that much. it just isn't.

It clearly is.

Well... I think the problem Simonator, is that Peeper seems to be stuck comparing a lemon (representing "investment" in solar energy in one country which has resulted in high unit prices) to the peach (which is arising in countries where there has been higher investment bringing unit costs down) He hasn't noticed yet that they are two completely different fruits.

I of course can't possibly comment - as I am still entirely attached to the national grid (on occasion even directly :)) so keep my consumption as low as I possibly can except when it's passing through me. :)

Hope you're both looking forward to a lovely weekend though :)

Just to lighten things up a bit

Hitler was behind Global Warming

"We will bomb them with drowned Polar Bears"

It's a bit old (from 2009) but its still got some good lines in it, and even Martin will enjoy the jokes about Windows Firewall.

Good giggle and a nice twist on the old plot...

Does invoking Godwin's Law not suggest the Deniers really have lost the plot!


All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Does invoking Godwin's Law not suggest the Deniers really have lost the plot!

Godwin's Law does not apply here as no-one was being called a Nazi. The skit just uses a well known scene, that has been parodied many times, from a film about Nazis

:P

T.A.

How many more times will we see that tired Downfall clip?

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.