Let's see some results!

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Profile bodhisatva

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Message 1478134 - Posted: 16 Feb 2014, 23:33:15 UTC - in response to Message 1477347.  


LYNN...you are super duper sweet!!!
:)

folks around here are really so nice, wish there were more people like you all around the world...
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Message 1478862 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014, 22:01:05 UTC

I have a question/suggestion that I am sure has been asked and discussed but I cant seem to find it in my search. So forgive me for just throwing this out there.

I would like to know after all the magic has been performed by the personal computers and uploaded to SETI. Is there a way for us participating to get to see the end result? I am assuming we all get various pieces of the puzzle to analyze in detail but I am interested in what the complete signal and associated data looks like, where it is from and what it means.

I think it would be cool (given limited resources and all) to provide access to the data (with out editing capability of course) and see what a second set of eyes can see.

If the right amount of information was provided, a set of rules and procedures set up, then small to large research tasks could be handed out to interested parties to attempt an analysis. In addition if just the data was provided we could develop our own projects to conduct research on or to offer to others.

I am sure there are people out there on a part time basis, that will be able to contribute to not just SETI but come up with all sorts of related uses for the data that would in turn bring in revenue.

I would venture to guess that a large amount of people on this site have various levels degrees, training and a strong scientific minds that would allow them to (with minimal supervision) contribute in some a multitude of ways.

While you have thousands of computers crunching data for you, it seems a thousand computer owners minds and interests, capabilities are sitting idle.

How cool would it be that after demonstrating distributed computing problems solving that you were able to take that approach and demonstrate distributed scientific research.


Just a thought
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Message 1478874 - Posted: 18 Feb 2014, 23:06:06 UTC - in response to Message 1478862.  

Welcome Femmana to the Forum!
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Message 1479076 - Posted: 19 Feb 2014, 10:12:52 UTC

Thank you Lynn.

Guess I need more practice with the search options :) I found the right spot after all, or thankfully some one move my message to proper place in which case I thank you!
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Message 1479331 - Posted: 19 Feb 2014, 22:20:17 UTC - in response to Message 1479076.  

Thank you Lynn.

Guess I need more practice with the search options :) I found the right spot after all, or thankfully some one move my message to proper place in which case I thank you!


Your Welcome, Femmana :)

There are so many threads here to post. Just look around, and have fun!
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Message 1479620 - Posted: 20 Feb 2014, 14:25:30 UTC - in response to Message 1478862.  


Great Thoughts...Femmana.

FANTASTIC + FABULOUS = FANTABULOUS !
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Message 1482479 - Posted: 27 Feb 2014, 20:27:40 UTC

Its been said before, but Seti@Home is in many ways a victim of its own success. More to the point, it seems to me that this project illustrates some of the pitfalls of volunteer based distributed computing.

Just an hypothesis: BOINC is attractive to science projects with limited resources. Projects with limited resources aren't able to allocate much to public/volunteer relations (think customer relations). As such, only the most enthusiastic of us are willing/motivated to put up with technical issues, lack of feedback and generally stick it out over the long-run. Therefore, BOINC projects have trouble attracting/retaining volunteers. Its a "Catch 22" for BOINC.

Add to that, I suspect the typical volunteer is a tech AND science enthusiast WITH computer resources to spare, which I further suspect is a limited demographic.

SETI@HOME is a little different in that not only was it one of the first distributed computer projects, created in the day when the internet was new and exciting, but the goal of the project is easy to grasp. So, SETI@Home's problem isn't lack of volunteers, but lack of funds. But, I think that's just a different side of the same "Catch 22" coin.

Short of SETI figuring-out some way to offer more interactive participation & feedback, I think there needs to be a better feedback or motivation solution built into the BOINC infrastructure itself. I've read that Dr. Andersen & Co are working on a solution to improve the balance of volunteers between projects with more resources than they can use (SETI) and those starving for volunteers, but that's not going to help SETI with funding.

SETI specific, I'd like to see the NTPKCR do something like SETI Live. I wish these two projects could find a away to work together.
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Message 1482488 - Posted: 27 Feb 2014, 20:58:02 UTC

Add to that, I suspect the typical volunteer is a tech AND science enthusiast WITH computer resources to spare, which I further suspect is a limited demographic.


??
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Message 1482491 - Posted: 27 Feb 2014, 21:05:20 UTC - in response to Message 1482479.  
Last modified: 27 Feb 2014, 21:09:32 UTC

Add to that, I suspect the typical volunteer is a tech AND science enthusiast WITH computer resources to spare, which I further suspect is a limited demographic.


Rather than suspecting (ie guessing), the data is available:
Total project RAC: 134,260,841
Active volunteers: 133,257

So the average RAC is about 1K, which is what you get from a standard desktop without a compatible GPU crunching a few hours a day... hardly a tech with resources to spare. Folks like me that build multiple or high-end PCs with GPUs just to crunch are not typical of the volunteers, which is really what the whole project is about: it's so that anyone with an interest can contribute. In that it has attracted many people to so do with limited resources, I call it a success.
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Message 1482492 - Posted: 27 Feb 2014, 21:11:08 UTC - in response to Message 1482491.  

Add to that, I suspect the typical volunteer is a tech AND science enthusiast WITH computer resources to spare, which I further suspect is a limited demographic.


Rather than suspecting (ie guessing), the data is available:
Total project RAC: 134,260,841
Active volunteers: 133,257

So the average RAC is about 1K, which is what you get from a standard desktop without a compatible GPU crunching a few hours a day... hardly a tech with resources to spare. Folks like me that build multiple or high-end PCs with GPUs just to crunch are not typical of the volunteers, which is really what the whole project is about: it's so that anyone with an interest can contribute. In that it has attracted many people to so do with limited resources, I call it a success.



That's what I had in mind:)
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Message 1488094 - Posted: 12 Mar 2014, 22:25:42 UTC

By "WITH computer resources to spare", doesn't necessarily require high-end equipment. But, that was a poorly worded phrase. You you know, one of the key benefits of BOINC is that it can utilize spare resources of even modest computers, rather than requiring dedicated resources.

More the main point of my previous post, about engaging & retaining the user base... those statistics that you link to also point out that <10% of users are active. I believe Dr. Anderson pointed out, in a presentation available on the BOINC website, that the number of active users of BOINC projects (not just SETI) has been declining. He also goes on to discuss some of the reasons he thinks its happening and what they are working on to improve the situation (such as developing the android app.) But, I still think there is a "Catch 22" problem because some projects don't have the resources/set-up to keep users engaged.

Then again, sometimes I wonder that SETI does even cares about it, since even <10% active users seems to be more users than it can keep busy.
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Message 1488191 - Posted: 13 Mar 2014, 2:51:38 UTC

If memory serves, when v6(?) was released with significantly more processing per work unit, Dr. Anderson put out a mass mailing to current and former crunchers indicating that there was more work than processing capacity allowed. It had a good effect and many people came back. I returned, if not then, for another similar entreaty.

When (not saying "if"!) the Green Bank receiver is finally done, I highly suspect there will be another one as, since it's going to be an exact duplicate of the Arecibo one, it could double the amount of work units to process. Unlike before, the infrastructure is now equipped for this as well due to the much-appreciated CoLo facility move. I know that quite a few people left SETI@Home when were having months of snail's-pace downloads and server downs prior to CoLo; they may return if they know these problems are solved.
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Message 1493280 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 10:12:04 UTC - in response to Message 1488191.  

Do you refer to so called GBT data?

So, such type of data not collected still? For some reason I thought observation were done already and data just awaits proper app and approach to be processed...
SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.
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Message 1493286 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 10:18:16 UTC

I must admit, that being a Seti participant for almost 14 years, I am rather anxious to see some true sorting of the data sent back home.

Even if it yields nothing, I should still like the math DONE.

This is hard for me to say.

I want nothing but the best for this project, I have proven that time after time.

BUT........I too want to see some results of my activity after 14 years.

Please? I am not cutting out just yet, but the thought that my input has not been registered for so long has me thinking.
I cannot do this forEVER.\
"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

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Message 1493459 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 17:45:33 UTC - in response to Message 1493286.  

Please? I am not cutting out just yet, but the thought that my input has not been registered for so long has me thinking.
I cannot do this forEVER.\

There are other projects out there looking using more modern and well funded methods. They will find life long before our data is even looked at. We are using last century methods; in computing that is like looking for smoke signals.
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Message 1493554 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 19:54:25 UTC - in response to Message 1493459.  
Last modified: 22 Mar 2014, 20:01:42 UTC

We aren't searching for life, we are searching for technological civilizations that want to communicate. They are very different endeavours.

Also, this isn't like smoking signals, at least not for us. The only other alternative for us now is optical SETI, and you can donate to it here. Maybe ET are communicating using gravitational waves or wathever, but we can't use that.
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Message 1493612 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 21:03:42 UTC - in response to Message 1493554.  

We aren't searching for life, we are searching for technological civilizations that want to communicate. They are very different endeavours

Wile different just finding life anyplace besides Earth would be as monumental as discovering the Earth is not the center of the universe. That is all I hope to find out before my time is up.
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Message 1493720 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 23:13:03 UTC - in response to Message 1493612.  
Last modified: 22 Mar 2014, 23:48:15 UTC

Well, I think we can find an ETI message before a biomarker signal. It's dubious that today's instruments can detect enough biomarkers to be sure about life's presence in an exoplanet. Probably, better space and ground instruments are needed. On the other hand, we can detect radio messages right now.

Here you can find some calculations about the accuracy needed to detect biomarkers on exoearths. In essence, JWST and E-ELT are needed. JWST will start its mission in 6 years from now. E-ELT will achieve first light in 8 years from now.
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Message 1493753 - Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 23:51:15 UTC - in response to Message 1493720.  

Well, I think we can find an ETI message before a biomarker signal.

There are new telescopes in operation and better ones coming that will look where there are known planets beyond our solar system. The will be able to detect microbial bio-markers if there are enough microbes passing gas. Earth has had life for about 3.6 billion years but the first radio transmission was only 160 years ago. If I were a betting man my money is on the microbes.
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Message 1493762 - Posted: 23 Mar 2014, 0:09:54 UTC

In his talk yesterday Eric showed a sky map with a lot of interesting astropulse data, some of which was seen more than once, so results are happeneing. Unfortunately for the impatient astronomy often takes decades or more.
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