Being aged in the mid 50's you did not serve in WWII when apparently there is some evidence that it was used towards the later years of the conflict. In peacetime no it hasn't been. Sounds like you should have had some anyway :-))

You have asked for some intelligent debate, seems I'm wasting my time.

However, the Sergeants and SSM's that trained us served in the 50's with some coming to the end of their careers after serving in WWII.

They were serious professionals and had no reason to lie. Therefore, based on your statement, I'd much rather believe them than anything you post with regards to military service.

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Care to explain why you think they will be going to Southern European counties, especially with the present economic situation down there and the unemployment rates.

The sun....

Tell 'em what the UK weather is really like, in the middle of winter, when its a "mild" 3C, but the humidity is around 85%, and there is a gentle south westerly gale blowing. Compare that with their home lands where the temperature is -15C, humidity about 20% and there's an easterly gale blowing...

And what the south of France is like at this time of year 5C, about 60% humidity, and a gentle southerly breeze coming in off the Med...

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

More worrying is what our leaders are saying......

"But in a letter, written by Conservative Grassroots chairman Robert Woollard, the activists say the government's position is "perplexing" and "politically untenable"."

UK cannot extend migrant controls

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Not at all, my view has always been quite clear. At the present moment it is generally best for the UK to be a part of Europe, to play a part in its proceedings and exercise our veto when necessary. The day that it is not in our best interests to be a Member, then we should withdraw. I see that day getting very close.

It seems that you're in the minority.....

We're staying in says the No 1 turnabout MP

Let's hope he does a nice turnabout here.

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Romanian and Bulgarian officials have suggested they believe about 8,000 migrants will come every year for five years but campaigners for tighter laws have said the figure could be as high as 50,000.

See the way that is written? Is that 50,000 in total, or 50,000 a year? Sloppy journalism at best, misinformation at worst.

I think they mean 50.000 a year. But again, look what their agenda is. They want tighter immigration laws, but no one will support immigration laws if only a few thousand people a year come into the country. 8.000 immigrants for 5 years is nothing. So these people will take numbers that do seem problematic. 50.000 new people a year is a lot scarier and is a lot better at creating pressure for reform.

But this is what should worry you. These people are lying to you, 50.000 is nonsense. Not that many people will come in. So why are they lying? Why do they even want these reforms? Why do they want to fix a problem that does not even exist? Because they don't actually give a damn about immigration reform, that is just a means to an end. They are using that because 'the fear for the 'other'' is a very efficient way of getting people to follow you. These people will try to 'protect' you from the 'other' but in order for them to do so they first need to be voted into power and that is their real goal. They want power, they want to form the government or at least dictate the policies of the government. These people want power for the sake of power, not because they are interested in helping people or helping the country, but simply because their ego needs stroking and the best way for them to do that is by having power. But these people are unfit to be in power because they lack a vision, they don't want anything, they are not working towards any goal that they like to achieve. Once they are in power, they will try to stay in power and as a result all they do is crisis management. Fix problems as they come and try to look good in front of the cameras while doing that. And only fix the problems that make the headlines, all other problems are irrelevant.

That may well be true but it brings to mind a very serious question: -

WHY?

If the European Commission & Parliament get their way, governments will no longer matter. Many already know this, so why the scaremongering?

Maybe a ploy so that when the EU wins, they'll get a bigger position at the regional table[trough)?

If that is the case, it will only confirm that the EU is nothing but a sham!

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That may well be true but it brings to mind a very serious question: -

WHY?

If the European Commission & Parliament get their way, governments will no longer matter. Many already know this, so why the scaremongering?

Maybe a ploy so that when the EU wins, they'll get a bigger position at the regional table[trough)?

If that is the case, it will only confirm that the EU is nothing but a sham!

Pretty sure I answered that question. They want power for the sake of having power. And that has nothing to do with the EU. If anything these people are actively campaigning against the EU. I doubt they will get much of a reward from the EU if they win.

Not necessarily. That in itself could be a very good ploy. Scaring the population to the extent that they end up agreeing that it would be much safer staying in the EU.

That may seem paranoid but do not forget, Britain perfected the art of deception in the 20th century, much to Europe's chagrin.

It comes down to one thing I've always maintained, show me an honest and truthful politician & I'll show you a liar.

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+100 for an excellent reply. See I knew you could do it :)

That's always been my position, unfortunately, being at ground level, you know full well the extent of the gross negligence, incompetence and, dare I say it, corruption within the system.

With that knowledge and experience, I still feel heartfelt sorrow for those within the system who go out of their way to help those in genuine need, only to see their frustration in being stymied every step they took.

I got around that by picking myself off the ground and sadly worrying at the same time, in starting all over again. I've succeeded at a great personal cost though.

Unfortunately what I've experienced here is greatly compounded by the gross corruption within the EU. As it gets larger, so will that corruption.

Personally, there is no way I will ever see the problems of Europe resolved in my lifetime, and that is the saddest fact of all as I believe the original concept was similar to the feelings of the world when JFK was President -

Genuine hope for the future.

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Brilliant as they are, charismatic leaders come and go. JFK, Maggie, Mandela, giants in their own lifetime. For the rest of us, day to day life has to suffice, and we have a choice whether to play a part in it or not. I have chosen to.

Which one has to say is very commendable of you.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Thank you Nick, that is very kind of you to say so. I don't kid myself for one minute that I will materially alter the future of this country. I'm not going to alter major government policies, but I do think that I have the opportunity to hopefully influence future changes for the better. Age has nothing to do with it, whether you are 30 or 80, it is what you can bring to the table that matters.

Sitting on the sidelines, wringing ones hands, and throwing bread rolls is not a positive way forward. My current activities are rather more than I anticipated, being retired, but nevertheless, this is my England, and I deem it worth it.

Happy New Year to you ;-))

You just had to go and spoil the atmosphere of the last few posts didn't you! You have constantly berated along those lines knowing full well I have never done that.

However, I have no choice but to give you a +1 deservedly. Please allow others to voice their opinion and do not assume for one moment that the one giving the opinion is sitting on the sidelines. I fought my way through and as you know failed even though I was in the right. I did not sit in a corner sucking my thumbs but went out and got back on my feet. Personal territory? Just who on these threads of mine even berated me for that?

I have liked your past few posts, keep them coming but keep off the personal attacks on me, my employment and my luck. I may be lucky at times but when up against the system I lost, so just where is the luck and to state publicly that I donate some to some damned charity?

WTH is overseas aid but taxpayers money? As far as I'm concerned that is more than enough for me, also, do not forget that we pay twice, our overseas aid as well as the aid provided by the EU which we also provide along with other nations.

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WTH is overseas aid but taxpayers money? As far as I'm concerned that is more than enough for me, also, do not forget that we pay twice, our overseas aid as well as the aid provided by the EU which we also provide along with other nations.

One child less dying of some sh***y disease that we eradicated in Europe a century ago. One person less dying of starvation when our problems come from overeating. One person less clearing out his bowels in a grotesque fashion because he had no access to clean water when all we have to do is press a button for all the drinkable water we could wish for.

Less corruption, the spread of the rule of law, nation building, state building, investments in infrastructure, increasing peoples access to education, to knowledge they need to help themselves, improving their lives.

And you benefit from it. Overseas aid makes the UK a safer place to live, as overseas aid combats the root causes of terrorism and international crime. It also decreases the chances of conflict and other causes that make people flee their country. That means less refugees for you to deal with in the UK. And once these countries have reached a certain level of stability, they become new markets for British companies to sell to or invest in. New places where one can make a profit.

Overseas Aid is usually sent in cases or war, conflict, or natural disaster. We do not usually send aid to countries that just have an unstable political regime and low standard of living. Look at Eastern Europe from North to South. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria. If you would believe the Western media, half the population of these countries are headed West seeking a better life for their families. Should we be sending them aid to stay at home, when it is their governments are the root cause of the trouble? Should Russia just invade and take over the lot .....

I can assure you that people in the Baltic region do not need your aid, they are doing just fine on their own. Besides, the countries that are now part of the EU are going to catch up sooner than later. Still, if you don't want them to move to the west you are probably going to have to make it worth their while to stay in the country. That means creating well paid jobs that they can do. Its not even aid, just economic investment.

Also, European aid is usually done through a number of policies, mostly the European Neighborhood policy. Aid is conditional and again, the EU only stands to benefit from it. Either by having neighbors that are politically stable and friendly towards the EU as well as by creating functional economic markets that are open to European businesses. Even so, the money spend on aid is ridiculously low. A few billion in total.

Thanks Chris, that was an excellent post. As for overseas aid, Maggie said it best: Charity begins at home. She sorted out this country first then attacked Europe for the squandering and told them to clean up their act.

She wasn't called the "Iron Lady" for nothing.

For our friend from the Netherlands, there have been many reports which are available in the threads linked in the first post.

One of the most contentious from EU ministers themselves is the waste of time and funds with the few meetings per month in Strasburg, they have all demanded as to why they are not held in Brussels.

It is this type of waste that needs to be curtailed. Should it get done, then as you stated, there will be more funds available for the children.

Whenever contentious issues crop up with governments, the same old sorry excuse gets thrown into the pot, which is what your statement is.

With a properly run organisation, these contentious issues are few and far between.

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Apart from the first three categories, the rest just seem like a time bomb to me.

Yes, and it's ticking......

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Baltic states - Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania
Scandinavia - Denmark, Norway, Sweden
Benelux - Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg.
Eastern Bloc - Belorus, Ukraine
Warsaw Pact - Bulgaria, Romania
Ex Yugoslavia - Bosnia, Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia
Jury still out - Albania

Apart from the first three categories, the rest just seem like a time bomb to me.

The ones in bold aren't even part of the EU and won't be for probably at least a decade. Bulgaria and Romania can have their EU funds suspended if they are found out to be wasting to much of it on corruption which is exactly what happened to Bulgaria back in 2008 I think. The new government cleaned house though so now they are getting funds again. I believe this new method is also applied to Croatia.

In any case, I don't see why there are supposedly ticking time bombs. What do you mean with that?

Also Sirius, I agree, they should cut the nonsense by moving around to Strasbourg every few weeks and just stay in Brussels. Its an archaic ritual, a waste of resources and needs to stop.

I would agree with that. But is has to be said that the EU comprises a very large area, and why should just one country or City get the honour of hosting it?

That's my point about the EU and always has been. Does it really matter where?

Stuff status symbols and pride, it's time for the EU to start acting and operating as a cohesive, responsible and effective organisation with an untouchables division to root out bribery and corruption anywhere within the Eurozone with extremely tough punishments for those that allow themselves to be bribed or turn corrupt.

One would then be very surprised to see the amount of funds available for the children as well as other worthy causes!

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G E R T R U D E !! He's at it again!!!

Stuff status symbols and pride, it's time for the EU to start acting and operating as a cohesive, responsible and effective organisation with an untouchables division to root out bribery and corruption anywhere within the Eurozone with extremely tough punishments for those that allow themselves to be bribed or turn corrupt.

A worthy +1 for that post.

But, it has to be said, that even 70 years later, the divisions that happened during WWII are still there in the background right across Europe. The Berlin Wall only came down in 1990 just 23 year ago. The "Cold War" with Russia only ended in 1989 just one year before. The EU needs to go back to it's grass roots of the EEC, and start again and build on from there.

Well said.

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