Religion - is one better than another?

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Message 1452922 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 19:26:14 UTC - in response to Message 1452920.  

I was not referring to the OP when I said you, unless of course he was one of the people who set up the beercan pole.

I can assure you that ES99 is most definitely all female ;-)

Without a shadow of a doubt :)
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Message 1452926 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 19:34:51 UTC - in response to Message 1452911.  

Sheesh, some people, and you call the OP a troll?

I didn't call the OP a troll. I said the guys who set up a pole of beer cans as a religious symbol right next to a Christmas nativity scene were obviously doing that to mock/troll Christians.

Again, you missed the point. They were setting it up to make the point that if you promote one faith in a public space then you need to promote all and none.

If we think that religion is ludicrous then we have the right to express that as much as those who think that religion is not.

Also, many Atheists also feel that it is strange that religion demands some sort of exception and respect that it doesn't deserve.

You explain to me why a religion scene merits special respect.
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Message 1452927 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 19:35:20 UTC - in response to Message 1452920.  

I was not referring to the OP when I said you, unless of course he was one of the people who set up the beercan pole.

I can assure you that ES99 is most definitely all female ;-)

Which is irrelevant to this discussion!
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Message 1452932 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 19:44:32 UTC - in response to Message 1452926.  
Last modified: 11 Dec 2013, 19:45:57 UTC

You explain to me why a religion scene merits special respect.


It doesn't. It was provided by the powerful at the time to show the peasantry that if they work hard, live a saintly life they could become a king.

For the next couple of thousand years, many have fallen for it. Throughout all that time, the powerful have used that religion to get their fellow countrymen to fight others as their views of the same religion was wrong. Examples.....

WW1
WW2

current
Syria
Libya

Wasn't WW1 & 2 mainly Christian against Christian & the Mid-East Muslim against Muslim?

So what price religion?

Edit:

And the Xmas that shook the world and upset those in power was that of 1914.
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Message 1452936 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 19:54:52 UTC - in response to Message 1452897.  

That to me is what a Christian Christmas should be about. Charity work and giving to others. Perhaps with this new actual Christian Pope more people who call themselves Christians will remember that.

Who are you to say how Christians should celebrate their own holiday?

Who are you to say how Atheists should celebrate their own holiday?

..but if you're asking. I went to a Church School where the bible was read to us everyday. I learned all about Jesus and seem to know a lot more about him that a some of the people here who claim to be Christian. Just because I realised I didn't believe in it, doesn't mean that I don't know all about it.
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Message 1452938 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 19:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1452935.  
Last modified: 11 Dec 2013, 19:57:51 UTC

Which is irrelevant to this discussion!

Quite possibly, but a point worth making!

You explain to me why a religion scene merits special respect.

Not the scene in itself no, but the religion of the people that put it there deserves some respect,

Why? Why does an irrational made up belief deserve any more respect than my lack of belief? What is so special about religion?

... even if you don't agree with their beliefs. Put it another way, the JW's drive me nuts with their uninvited knocking on peoples doors, but you can't doubt for one minute their sheer and utter belief in their particular religion. I think they are totally misguided but you have to admire their sheer dogged tenacity in the face of adversity.

No one religion is any better than another, they all base their belief on some sort of deity that they think exists, or did exist, but without any proof. It's all down to personal faith. The only exception that I know is Rastifarianism where they revere and worship Haile Selassie I, Emperor of Ethiopia 1930–1974,
some as Jesus in his Second Advent, or as God the Father. It is sometimes described as a religion but is considered by many adherents to be a more a "Way of Life".


Right, believe what you want,but those beliefs don't deserve some special treatment.
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Message 1452953 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 20:22:36 UTC - in response to Message 1452920.  

I was not referring to the OP when I said you, unless of course he was one of the people who set up the beercan pole.

I can assure you that ES99 is most definitely all female ;-)

My apologies, I always assume male unless I know someone is not. And I'm not long enough around here to know who is male and who is not.
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Message 1452957 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 20:27:24 UTC - in response to Message 1452936.  

Just because I realised I didn't believe in it, doesn't mean that I don't know all about it.

"All" is really a big word. I doubt anyone knows all.
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Message 1452958 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 20:29:01 UTC - in response to Message 1452926.  

Again, you missed the point. They were setting it up to make the point that if you promote one faith in a public space then you need to promote all and none.

If we think that religion is ludicrous then we have the right to express that as much as those who think that religion is not.

Also, many Atheists also feel that it is strange that religion demands some sort of exception and respect that it doesn't deserve.

You explain to me why a religion scene merits special respect.

And I don't think one should try to make a point out of something like a Christmas nativity scene. And no, society is not obliged to promote all faiths if it promotes one in a public space. Of course, if there are other faiths that want their own symbols or scenes in a public space, they should be given that space. Just not right next to each other. One can have a perfectly respectable distance between one symbol and the other.

Religion or faith requires your polite respect just as someones political convictions or sexual orientation and tons of other convictions and believes require some polite respect. Respect each others differences. That includes the believe in something you don't believe in. And that goes both ways. I respect your lack of believe in the thing I do believe in.
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Message 1452959 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 20:33:25 UTC - in response to Message 1452936.  

Who are you to say how Atheists should celebrate their own holiday?

..but if you're asking. I went to a Church School where the bible was read to us everyday. I learned all about Jesus and seem to know a lot more about him that a some of the people here who claim to be Christian. Just because I realised I didn't believe in it, doesn't mean that I don't know all about it.

I'm the last person to ever tell you how you should celebrate whatever holiday you feel like celebrating. If you feel like spending a holiday helping the poor and needy, great, you are awesome for doing that.

And if Christians want to celebrate the birth of their supposed lord and savior by stuffing their face with food and drinks while lavishing each other with gifts then that's totally up to them. They are not supposed to do anything they don't want to even if it would be more in line with their believes.
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Message 1452962 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 20:39:26 UTC - in response to Message 1452938.  

Why? Why does an irrational made up belief deserve any more respect than my lack of belief? What is so special about religion?

Right, believe what you want,but those beliefs don't deserve some special treatment.

Why does someones sexual preference deserve my respect? Why does someones gender orientation deserve my respect? Why does your lack of belief deserve my respect? Why does someones political orientation deserve respect? Really, why do other people deserve my respect? Why should I care about other people? Screw other people, I'm better than all of them, if they get in my way, I will stomp them into the ground.

Or wait, no. Other people deserve my respect. They are people, they are like me in so many ways. They are human beings. If I can respect them for the things I have in common, then surely I can also respect those few differences they have. At least, as long as those differences do not involve actively hurting other people.

Added bonus of respecting each other: the world becomes a slightly less crappy place if people can respect differences rather than pursue each other over these differences.
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Message 1452973 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 21:04:19 UTC - in response to Message 1452962.  

Why? Why does an irrational made up belief deserve any more respect than my lack of belief? What is so special about religion?

Right, believe what you want,but those beliefs don't deserve some special treatment.

Why does someones sexual preference deserve my respect? Why does someones gender orientation deserve my respect? Why does your lack of belief deserve my respect? Why does someones political orientation deserve respect? Really, why do other people deserve my respect? Why should I care about other people? Screw other people, I'm better than all of them, if they get in my way, I will stomp them into the ground.

Or wait, no. Other people deserve my respect. They are people, they are like me in so many ways. They are human beings. If I can respect them for the things I have in common, then surely I can also respect those few differences they have. At least, as long as those differences do not involve actively hurting other people.

Added bonus of respecting each other: the world becomes a slightly less crappy place if people can respect differences rather than pursue each other over these differences.

Missing the point again.

What I said was "More" respect.

There seems to be something about religious people that makes them think their beliefs deserve some extra special respect just because its a religion.

It seems that you can't get your head around that. Baby Jesus wasn't disrespected or taken down. He just had to share his space with an amusing celebration of Chistmas. Jesus had to share, yet you are totally equating that with disrespect.
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Message 1452984 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 21:16:43 UTC - in response to Message 1452973.  
Last modified: 11 Dec 2013, 21:19:42 UTC

Missing the point again.

What I said was "More" respect.

There seems to be something about religious people that makes them think their beliefs deserve some extra special respect just because its a religion.

It seems that you can't get your head around that. Baby Jesus wasn't disrespected or taken down. He just had to share his space with an amusing celebration of Chistmas. Jesus had to share, yet you are totally equating that with disrespect.

I'm sorry but I find building a beer pole which sole purpose is to mock the nativity scene its build next to not exactly respectful towards Christians. Hence why I said that if the pole had been build a respectful distance from it (a few meters) I wouldn't have cared and agreed with you that Fox news was just whining over nothing again.

Also, I never said religion requires more respect than your lack of religion.
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Message 1452989 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 21:23:28 UTC - in response to Message 1452984.  

Missing the point again.

What I said was "More" respect.

There seems to be something about religious people that makes them think their beliefs deserve some extra special respect just because its a religion.

It seems that you can't get your head around that. Baby Jesus wasn't disrespected or taken down. He just had to share his space with an amusing celebration of Chistmas. Jesus had to share, yet you are totally equating that with disrespect.

I'm sorry but I find building a beer pole which sole purpose is to mock the nativity scene its build next to not exactly respectful towards Christians. Hence why I said that if the pole had been build a respectful distance from it (a few meters) I wouldn't have cared and agreed with you that Fox news was just whining over nothing again.

Also, I never said religion requires more respect than your lack of religion.

Considering that the display isn't even up yet I wonder where got the idea it was on top of the nativity display.

Nativity Scene in Florida Capitol Will Share Space With Beer-Can Pole Celebrating Festivus
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Message 1452996 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 21:32:33 UTC - in response to Message 1452989.  
Last modified: 11 Dec 2013, 21:36:30 UTC

I which case you can regard my previous posts applicable for a hypothetical situation where the beer can pole was placed right next to the nativity scene. My apologies, I should have paid closer attention. Like I said, as long as it keeps a respectful distance from the nativity scene I don't care what displays of other religions they place there (I would favor a statue of Cthulhu or some other Lovecraftian God).

EDIT Heh, now I think of it, Cthulhu sitting on top of the roof of the shelter would probably make a pretty awesome sight ;)

EDIT 2 Talking about Christian symbols having to share the public space with other religions, I heard Satanist were going to place a symbol of Satan next to a statue of the 10 commandments outside a courthouse in Oklahoma.
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Message 1453025 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 22:44:51 UTC

I sincerely doubt that one religion is better than another. The reason, in my opinion, there are so many is simply because people are different. Some people feel no need for religion at all and that is alright too. I think my view toward religion is best described by the word agnostic.

I also believe that most of the world's people need some form of religion to define their life and give it meaning.

My only gripe with religious people is with those who believe so strongly that they are right that they try to convince, by one means or another, everyone else of their correctness to the point of hostility.

Now, as far as which Christian denomination is "best" I was raised as a Presbyterian and were I to decide to attend church on Sundays again that is where I would be. The best faiths are those that teach us to get along with each other, have some charity in our hearts and discourage behavior that puts down and discriminates against others.

If I had been raised in another part of the world I can see where buddhism could have been the primary religious influence in my life.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1453045 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 23:45:26 UTC - in response to Message 1452996.  

I which case you can regard my previous posts applicable for a hypothetical situation where the beer can pole was placed right next to the nativity scene. My apologies, I should have paid closer attention. Like I said, as long as it keeps a respectful distance from the nativity scene I don't care what displays of other religions they place there (I would favor a statue of Cthulhu or some other Lovecraftian God).

EDIT Heh, now I think of it, Cthulhu sitting on top of the roof of the shelter would probably make a pretty awesome sight ;)

EDIT 2 Talking about Christian symbols having to share the public space with other religions, I heard Satanist were going to place a symbol of Satan next to a statue of the 10 commandments outside a courthouse in Oklahoma.

Well Satan is from Christian theology, so its not such a great leap.

So you think my plan of setting up a festive diorama of Christians being fed to the lions on the front lawn might be in poor taste? I was hoping it would discourage them from parking there when the go to the Church across the street.
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Message 1453052 - Posted: 11 Dec 2013, 23:57:49 UTC - in response to Message 1453045.  

Well Satan is from Christian theology, so its not such a great leap.

So you think my plan of setting up a festive diorama of Christians being fed to the lions on the front lawn might be in poor taste? I was hoping it would discourage them from parking there when the go to the Church across the street.

I dunno, Christians being eaten by lions is not exactly fitting with Christmas. Id save it for Easter or something. Seems more fitting with the whole 'nailed to the cross' bit. Also, I doubt it would deter parking in front of your house. In fact, it might even be seen by some more humorless people as an invitation to park their car on your front lawn ;)
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Message 1453054 - Posted: 12 Dec 2013, 0:00:16 UTC - in response to Message 1453052.  

Well Satan is from Christian theology, so its not such a great leap.

So you think my plan of setting up a festive diorama of Christians being fed to the lions on the front lawn might be in poor taste? I was hoping it would discourage them from parking there when the go to the Church across the street.

I dunno, Christians being eaten by lions is not exactly fitting with Christmas. Id save it for Easter or something. Seems more fitting with the whole 'nailed to the cross' bit. Also, I doubt it would deter parking in front of your house. In fact, it might even be seen by some more humorless people as an invitation to park their car on your front lawn ;)


Or even better, put up a life-sized model of Jesus on the cross with a note saying - park on my driveway/lawn and that could be you :)
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Message 1453057 - Posted: 12 Dec 2013, 0:09:00 UTC

Hah! +1 for making me laugh.
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Message boards : Politics : Religion - is one better than another?


 
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