Observation of CreditNew Impact (4)

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Message 1444732 - Posted: 20 Nov 2013, 21:26:57 UTC

Well it didn't take long for Lionel to mass abort another huge amount of MB work, again I see, just so that he can grab more AP work. :-(

Absolutely no "Cheers" here.

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Message 1444742 - Posted: 20 Nov 2013, 21:39:46 UTC

Jason - I've just read your thesis on the problems and solutions of CreditNew. And its brought back memories of control theory and its application to industrial scale plant design... I'll have to brave the spiders in the loft to get at my notes.

Nice work, and I hope your efforts pay off in getting the beast tamed, its all too easy to have a fast reacting system that is under damped, or a sluggish system that is way over damped - the real skill is getting the system to have the correct combination of damping and gain to keep things in proper control. (Now try it with a four term controller - I've got the right shaped pills somewhere)
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Message 1444796 - Posted: 20 Nov 2013, 22:46:00 UTC - in response to Message 1444717.  

Thx Jason,

You're doing a good job answering our questions that fast.

p.s.
The next lines are a deep scan from the brain of a person under influence of alcohol:

-- clip --
(Understandable words are assembling too but in a hard to decipher order context wisely using You.)

I'll feed that input through my analogue inputs. I'm that old that I have studied and calculated that sort of things in electronics rather than in signal processing. But everything I receive is processed "either as positive or even more positive feedback with some needed damping and with the help of some capacitors or coils along with some needed resistors" to do some linear, integral or derivative adjustments to whatever needed depending on the adjustable bias ...

:D

Or maybe I'll just Crunch. For the F U N of doing that.

I'm smiling like an exploded OpAmp or an electrolytic capacitor, (probably due to the 18 proof Winter Beer), when writing this.

-- clip ends ---

Me, myself and I are going to sleep - unless the other two are snoring.
To overcome Heisenbergs:
"You can't always get what you want / but if you try sometimes you just might find / you get what you need." -- Rolling Stones
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Message 1446510 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 7:22:22 UTC

I see that you're aborting MB work again Lionel just to get more AP's. :-(

If Credits are what you're after, then why not move to a project that awards more credit p/h.

No Cheers.
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Message 1446531 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 10:23:24 UTC - in response to Message 1446510.  

I see that you're aborting MB work again Lionel just to get more AP's. :-(

If Credits are what you're after, then why not move to a project that awards more credit p/h.

No Cheers.

(+)
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Message 1446854 - Posted: 25 Nov 2013, 23:43:25 UTC

Shame on you for doing that, Lionel.


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Message 1446912 - Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 4:51:46 UTC

I couldn't , wouldn't, don't want to, etc read ALL that has been said about "Observation of CreditNew Impact" in all the threads so if this is redundant please forgive me ...

It seems the easy way out of this whole controversy is to have Dr.A et al break S@H and AP into 2 projects and let them live separate lives! They can still live on the same computers etc under the covers ... just give S@H and AP space to live on inviable to each other's existence.

S@H crunchers VS S@H crunchers for S@H bragging rights and
AP crunchers VS AP crunchers dor AP bragging rights.

(It can't be THAT hard ... can it??)

Ed F
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Message 1446921 - Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 5:38:52 UTC
Last modified: 26 Nov 2013, 5:41:35 UTC

Or simply as asked a lot of times in the forums, adjust the credit paid by MB to match the same number paid by AP as in theory promised by Creditscrew and never achieved.
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Message 1447251 - Posted: 27 Nov 2013, 4:24:46 UTC - in response to Message 1446921.  

Or simply as asked a lot of times in the forums, adjust the credit paid by MB to match the same number paid by AP as in theory promised by Creditscrew and never achieved.


Wash..rinse..repeat. It's up to Dr. Anderson.


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Message 1447269 - Posted: 27 Nov 2013, 5:15:25 UTC

When the change to SETI MB V7 came into effect AP's here averaged 790 credits per w/u but that is now down to 710 (I only do AP's on CPU) so a leveling is happening again.

Remember when AP's use to average 1200 when CreditNew was 1st introduced?

Well certain tactics used by some idiots would likely account for that I guess.

Cheers.
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Message 1447335 - Posted: 27 Nov 2013, 7:41:58 UTC - in response to Message 1447251.  
Last modified: 27 Nov 2013, 8:02:25 UTC

Or simply as asked a lot of times in the forums, adjust the credit paid by MB to match the same number paid by AP as in theory promised by Creditscrew and never achieved.


Wash..rinse..repeat. It's up to Dr. Anderson.

Looks like his laundry machine is broken. That´s what i fear...
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Message 1447372 - Posted: 27 Nov 2013, 12:58:56 UTC - in response to Message 1446921.  

My suspicion is that the new optimized MB is not as much better than the stock MB as the optimized AP is better than the stock AP. Once our resident Lunatics get MB locked down tight we might see the kind of differential we have been used to, historically-wise.
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Message 1457894 - Posted: 27 Dec 2013, 9:21:27 UTC - in response to Message 1447372.  

Time to flog the dead horse again.
For those of us that crunch just MB going to V7 resulted in my RAC dropping from around 53,000 to less than 32,000. After a while it recovered, sort of, to be around 32,500. Then it dropped down to around 31,000. From that point it gradually climbed back up again to hit a high of 33,500.

That was around the begining of November.
Since then it has, apart from a minor blip, been falling steadily. It's now down to less than 30,000 (even lower than after the inital introduction of V7) and it is continuing to fall.

Why?
Grant
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Message 1457927 - Posted: 27 Dec 2013, 13:08:40 UTC
Last modified: 27 Dec 2013, 13:11:28 UTC

Well I have been breaking in a couple of new cards in my 3rd and 5th host and I have been logging my top 5 host totals and RAC on a daily basis since 4th of December

On the two host with new GPU, there has been an overall RAC increase of

No3 Plus 2130
No5 Plus 1122

Much in line with what I had hoped

However the other three machines which I have done nothing to over the same 3 week period.

No1 minus 1033
No2 minus 281
No4 minus 234

It should be noted that I did this to make number 2 and number 3 identical machines and number 4 and 5 are also now a pair.

I don't actually care about RAC except in trying to see how well my machines perform against each other and for my team, I am definately of the school 1 point per WU.

Just thought someone might like the figures.
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Message 1458043 - Posted: 27 Dec 2013, 23:22:57 UTC - in response to Message 1457927.  

I am definately of the school 1 point per WU.

If you think people aborting MB WUs to get AP ones is bad, you've no idea how many hundreds of thousands of WUs were aborted in order to get shorties when it was 1 credit per WU.
I'm all for the credit reflecting how much work is done. It would just be nice if that actually happened.
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Message 1458078 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 2:09:32 UTC - in response to Message 1447372.  

As I recall from a response I got in an older thread on this subject, basically, V7 is in essence V6 optimised, or something close to that.

Grant, I've also seen similar reductions in RAC, albeit on more humble figures. I'm now running my main PC for whole days at a time, to try and claw back some of the loss, rather than for, say, three or four hours plus a few runs overnight and I'm still 'going backwards'! Admittedly, I no longer have the benefit of GPU 'crunching' (Win XP32 and an ATI GPU, limiting useable drivers and 'AMD App', with a reluctance to revert to an older driver and reduce games performance), but I estimate about a 40%+ reduction. As a result, I've often found myself wondering if it is worth continuing, as I can't keep blaming the washing machine for the increase in power use!!!
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Message 1458079 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 2:19:14 UTC - in response to Message 1458078.  

Hmmm, I see a Barts GPU with an acceptable driver/AMD_APP in Vista. That Host should work fine. Is that the one not working? I don't see a GPU in XP.
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Message 1458083 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 2:45:54 UTC - in response to Message 1458079.  

Unless you have the 'right' OS, driver and AMD App combination, the ATI GPU won't show itself under BOINC and will be 'ignored'. My main is the E8600 with XP32 which had an HD6870 in it, until a few days ago; the 6870 is now 'on loan' to my partner's Q6600 with Vista 64. Previously, I ran an HD4890 under XP32. I then got the 6870 and was seduced by the speed of the thing in games, with Cat 12.3, as opposed to Cat 11.12 used on the 4890 which allowed me to use the GPU for S@H....then found that 12.3 and AMD App, didn't mix under XP32! Still with me? Yep, I basically need to go to something like Win 7 64 bit, so that I can use the newer driver with the respective 'AMD App' as they call it these days (used to be called SDK). Phew!!!
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Message 1458088 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 3:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 1458083.  
Last modified: 28 Dec 2013, 3:51:43 UTC

Yes, I'm very familiar with the XP limitations. Actually, unless the Game calls for 12.3, there is very little difference between 12.1 & 12.3. I just picked up a 6870 a couple weeks ago and tested it in my XP host with 12.1. It worked great with 12.1 in XP. Now it's flying high in my other Host preparing to battle for the Highest ranked AMD card in SETI crown. It's scraping paint with a pair of Tahitis at the moment...

In Vista, you can install the latest AMD driver, 13.9, and that card should scream. In fact, it would scream in XP with 12.1 just as loud. There are APs available at the moment, that card will complete one in right at 2000 seconds. All the faster Tasks have cleared, but, here's one running the 6870 in XP with Cat 12.1, Task 3278325071
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Message 1458101 - Posted: 28 Dec 2013, 3:52:07 UTC - in response to Message 1458088.  

Yes, I'm very familiar with the XP limitations. Actually, unless the Game calls for 12.3, there is very little difference between 12.1 & 12.3. I just picked up a 6870 a couple weeks ago and tested it in my XP host with 12.1. It worked great with 12.1 in XP. Now it's flying high in my other Host preparing to battle for the Highest ranked AMD card in SETI crown. It's scraping paint with a pair of Tahitis at the moment...

In Vista, you can install the latest AMD driver, 13.9, and that card should scream. In fact, it would scream in XP with 12.1 just as loud. There are APs available at the moment, that card will complete one in right at 2000 seconds. All the faster Tasks have cleared, but, here's one running the 6870 in XP with Cat 12.1, Task 3278325071


Lets not forget that it is the top ranked OSX system on SETI.

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