The simple fact remains that it was a damn silly place to build a railway!!! You only have to lose Dawlish or a station either side of it, and you cut off the whole of Cornwall. Any system fit for purpose needs to have built in redundancy. Brunel might have been a famous man, but even he didn't get it right all the time. They've got away with it for very many years, despite the known history, now they will HAVE to do something about it. And quite right too. By all means repair the scenic route via Dawlish, but it cannot be relied upon any more as a main arterial link to Cornwall. Bugger the damn tourists and anoraks, give us a railway fit for the 21C.

Latest proposals

Dawlish history

Nostalgia

You are sounding just like all the others ....... You weren't like this previously,

I said that you were "sounding just like" I didn't say you were! I also said you weren't like this previously. It is human nature to want heads to roll when things go wrong, a ritual sacrifice if you like. The weather has given the Government a bloody nose over this current flooding, and when it is all over people will be moved, either out or sideways. There is no point captains falling on their swords and leaving the ship rudderless when you are still at sea.

Don't talk utter tosh! If you want to blame anything or anyone, blame Mother nature, and the vagaries of the current weather. You are sounding just like all the others that just want to undermine the government so we can have civil disorder on the streets. You weren't like this previously, have you been talking too much to known anarchists?

BBC

Oh dear me Chris, you are well behind the curve, seems I know more about what
all three parties were warned of several years back than what you do....or your
keeping quiet over IT!!!!. Using the the term, "Undermine Government and
Anarchist" is nothing more than bluff coming from a bluffer. Independent
scientists warn both this and the previous government what global warming would
highly likely lead to in the UK. Yes, the outrageous calamity set before us
today. So you have the audacity to categorise me as an anarchist...shame on you
Chris.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Stop reading the press!

Pickles has just finished his stint in the Commons. He was quite clearly sent along as the Government scapegoat. He gave a calm and measured response to criticism, and agreed that the government had got it wrong, He also promised that all that could be done would be done. A very good damage limitation exercise. What did anyone want him to do? Commit hari kari in front of the Speaker? As I have already said, stop running around like headless chickens, and lets all work together to sort the problem out. But yes, there will be changes after this, there simply has to be, but that comes in the future, after the immediate emergency is over.

Smith should have been sacked with disgrace, but since he hasn't is this because some one much higher up is actually to blame here???

Don't talk utter tosh! If you want to blame anything or anyone, blame Mother nature, and the vagaries of the current weather. You are sounding just like all the others that just want to undermine the government so we can have civil disorder on the streets. You weren't like this previously, have you been talking too much to known anarchists?

BBC

The point is Nick that the popular press are having a field day on the backs of the peoples misery. Do you hear the Daily Mail donating 1/2 a million quid to the flood relief effort? Of course you don't, and you won't. All that those sort of gutter rags do is make money out of other peoples misfortunes.

No-no-no!!! This is a very serious issues which came about through government
ministerial incompetence. Smith should have been sacked with disgrace, but since
he hasn't is this because some one much higher up is actually to blame here???

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Analysis - David Shukman - Science editor, BBC News

At the heart of this blame game is the difficult question of who gets defended and who does not. The blunt truth is the budget has never been big enough to help everyone, so awkward decisions have to be made. The priority is to save people and property.

Calculations are done to assess the value of any flood defence scheme. First, the cost must be outweighed by the benefit - the Treasury insists every pound spent must yield at least eight in economic gain. Second, you add up households at risk and third, you count up deprived households. In all these cases, urban areas are likely to score highest. Farmland is lower in the pecking order.

There are bound to be winners and losers. If the future becomes stormier, and more people are at risk, disputes will become more contentious. And this raises the hardest question of all: how much should we all pay to keep vulnerable areas dry?

The point is Nick that the popular press are having a field day on the backs of the peoples misery. Do you hear the Daily Mail donating 1/2 a million quid to the flood relief effort? Of course you don't, and you won't. All that those sort of gutter rags do is make money out of other peoples misfortunes.

But as I said before No government can control the weather.

Someone tell Pickles.....Now If Pickles was to stand in the despatch box, turn
towards the government front bench, point at them and openly states, " We all
balls'd-up, didn't we" it would then go a very long way in making amends with
the public.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Downing Street is urging unity after reports of a clash between senior ministers over the UK's response to the flooding crisis. Environment Secretary Owen Paterson and Communities Secretary Eric Pickles are thought to be at odds over the performance of the Environment Agency. No 10 did not deny Mr Paterson had complained about his colleague but said both were doing an "excellent job".

The government will have to defend its response later in Parliament. Commons Speaker John Bercow has granted Labour an urgent question to ask about the government's handling of the floods crisis while the government's latest Cobra emergency meeting will take place at 16:00 GMT. It is not clear whether Mr Pickles or Mr Paterson, who is recovering from an eye operation, will appear at the dispatch box to defend the government's handling of the crisis at 15:30 GMT.

Lets see what happens.

Labour has accused ministers of fighting "like ferrets in a sack".

Which is exactly what I said with the comment about running around like headless chickens. Why does no-one listen to me .... The government should be brought to brook (pun intended) over this, but it will be the usual "Lessons will be learnt" reply. That is not good enough and I want, and expect, a damn sight more! We will see what we get. But as I said before No government can control the weather.

Not a good choice of words for you either Nick! Basic anatomy would automatically presume headless means brainless. No doubt your oppo, our resident Mr Misery guts, will be along later to enlighten us with some more pearls of wisdom :-)

I do hope so......
Sorry that the truth hurts...Pickles has not denied the Mails headline statement!!

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

I do despair of you at times Nick, You've been reading the Mail yet again!

a barmaid from Bridgwater, Somerset, which is at risk of being overwhelmed by flood water, said: ‘Eric Pickles has lost the plot. Charity begins at home and we need to sort this place out before we doing anything else. ‘He needs to come down here for himself and see what it’s like before diverting money anywhere else.’

She would say that wouldn't she.

a retail worker from Bridgwater, said: ‘The Government is very quick to jump on the bandwagon for aid donations when something bad happens in another country, but when a disaster strikes here their attitude is, “Oh, it’s only our country, we don’t need to worry about it”.’

Ditto

Oh dear, not a good choice of words here Chris since our government ministers have shown themselves to be a bunch of brainless CHICKENS!!!

Not a good choice of words for you either Nick! Basic anatomy would automatically presume headless means brainless. No doubt your oppo, our resident Mr Misery guts, will be along later to enlighten us with some more pearls of wisdom :-)

No Government can control the weather, no government has unlimited funds to prevent every possible occurrence. You take sensible precautions, and then deal with unexpected emergencies as best you can when they happen.

Pickles clearly thinks you can!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2555438/Fury-Pickles-says-aid-abroad-stops-floods-Minister-claims-cash-helps-battle-against-global-warming.html
There's a hole in this bucker called Government, this hole is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Our friends our there in this world...weep for us for we are
in the controlling hands of imbeciles.

If anyone thinks they can do better, then they are perfectly free to stand for election. In the meantime let's see some stiff British upper lip in the face of adversity, and stop running around like headless chickens!

Oh dear, not a good choice of words here Chris since our government ministers have shown themselves to be a bunch of brainless CHICKENS!!!

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Environment Agency chairman Lord Smith has blamed Treasury spending rules for the failure of the agency to spend more on dredging last year, as he said his staff knew 100 times more than any politician about flood defence protection. He also said the environment secretary, Owen Paterson, has been hugely supportive, contrasting that with the sniping and criticism that has come from the communities secretary, Eric Pickles.

Ok, what I suspected would happen has sadly happened. The public are angry and want someone's head on a plate. Pickles thinks it should be Paterson's, Lord Smith thinks it should be Pickles. Usual political infighting to apportion blame. But yes, the Thames Vally flooding is getting closer to home, which will sharpen minds ....

Look, It wouldn't matter if it was Labour in Government or the current Coalition, there is not enough money in the Treasury to spend millions and millions on flood prevention schemes. It simply doesn't happen every year, although it is becoming more frequent. Suppose the next budget had all taxes put up by 10%, to pay for it all, people would scream blue murder. Why should the whole of the UK pay for Somerset and the Thames valley they would say! When these sort of things happen there is a government reserve fund that will be used, but it isn't limitless.

Also there are the London local elections in May this year, which the Thames runs through in the West and SW, and the General Election in May 2015. I would strongly imagine that the current circumstances, will release more money than would have been the case 2 or 3 years ago. Not making a judgement, just being pragmatic.

No Government can control the weather, no government has unlimited funds to prevent every possible occurrence. You take sensible precautions, and then deal with unexpected emergencies as best you can when they happen.

If anyone thinks they can do better, then they are perfectly free to stand for election. In the meantime let's see some stiff British upper lip in the face of adversity, and stop running around like headless chickens!

Presumably now that London and the Home Counties are at risk, we will see government action, on flood prevention etc.

But probably it will be an inquiry that will not sit until July, when everyone**, but those affected personally will have forgotten about it, and it will get downgraded to, to not very important, and reports will only appear on the inside pages of the serious papers.

**By everyone, I mean those that should be keeping this problem in the public's eye.

we thought we were dealing with experts."

Therein lies the biggest problem with modern governments!

I see they have replied.

Lord Smith: 'EA staff know 100 times more than any politician about flooding'

Environment Agency chairman says Treasury spending rules have limited the amount of dredging in the Somerset Levels

He added: "In Somerset the maximum we were allowed under those rules to do was £400,000. A year ago we put the maximum we can do on the table and said here it is and now we need other people to come to the table as well. That did not happen. We were not allowed to do the full dredging…"

Not entirely fair! No government can afford to employ experts in every field, just in case they might need them some day. Also experts can normally earn more in private industry. However, that said, the Environment Agency and all other government departments can call on consultants from time to time to confirm their own findings or to seek advice. It must also be recognised that the flo0ds and the weather have been at record levels.

At Porthleven in Cornwall, the 2.5 tonne timber baulks that stop swell from entering the harbour had snapped "like matchsticks" in recent storms. "The force of the sea has been unbelievable. They've had to take all the boats out of the harbour. And they haven't done that for more than 100 years.

The Thames in the Thames Valley has dozens of places where the level has passed previously known highs. Close to me the level is at its highest for 7 years. There is only so much preparation you can do for something that might only happen once in a lifetime.

Yes of course the Environment Agency should have acted sooner, so should the whole government, but they don't react just because of newspaper stories. Once the scale of the flooding became apparent, things have happened, but far too slowly. Devon and Cornwall are not cut off, there are trains running from London to Bristol, and from Bristol to Exeter, and trains will run between Penzance and Plymouth. Newquay airport is open.

we thought we were dealing with experts."

Therein lies the biggest problem with modern governments!

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Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, Mr Pickles, who has now been put in charge of the government's flood defence, said: "We made a mistake, there's no doubt about that. "We perhaps relied too much on the Environment Agency's advice. I think we recognise now that we should have dredged and I think it's important now that we get on with the process of getting people back into their houses, and really do some serious pumping."

He added: "I apologise unreservedly and I'm really sorry that we took the advice, we thought we were dealing with experts."

OUCH!!! Well, that is Owen Paterson's career finished then. Obviously there were going to be fall guys in this debacle, and he is the first one. Pickles admitting the government got it wrong is likely to be the second in 2015.

According to recent research, 25% of Conservative MPs are also private landlords (compared to 12.5% of Labour MPs and 15% of Lib Dems).

I expect the usual comments from the usual people.

Isn't that more a result of their backgrounds, and therefore a reflection of which classes are likely to be members of the political parties. I wouldn't have been surprised if the figures showed more than 25% of Tory MP's owning property.

edit] Also the level of rents in the private sector is regulated more on supply and demand than any other influence.

Leaving out the glaringly obvious one at that.

Why should landlords do what the border agency and local housing enforcement are already paid to do.

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Along the lines of those is power lining their pockets yet again to the detriment of the working class.