UK Utilities in a mess

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Sirius B Project Donor
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Message 1434033 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 16:26:48 UTC

There is an answer. It's not radical but it would never work because of individual selfishness.

During the blackouts of the 70's many friends and neighbours[In our area at least] helped each other with lighting and cooking. How was this done with no power?

A well known item often used by campers. Calor Gas with their camping gaz. The young need to be shown that to use their "social networking" takes power. Their smartphones need charging.

With everybody in the country to stop using mains for a day or so will soon send the pigs in the troughs the message that enough is enough.

Or even better make it happen one day a week until it starts hitting their profits.

The one good side effect of all that is that people will have spare cash in their pockets from the savings made on their bills.

Win/Win for the consumer.
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Message 1434079 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 19:42:24 UTC
Last modified: 26 Oct 2013, 20:36:37 UTC

Ever since National Grid bout out our own local regional power company. We have seen nothing but rate increase after rate increase. WE supposedly have a Public service commission that is looking out for us consumers. But I think they are all on the take. As in my memory they have never said no to a rate hike.

The problem with cutting back on use, Is the power companys say they are losing revenue and then raise the rates anyway. I read some time ago that out west the citizens were asked to cut back on water use because of a drought. It was such a success that the water company complained they were losing money and raised the rates anyway.

It seems you cant win when CEO's only care about making themselves and the major stock holders rich. Which is why they never want to keep up with the infrstructure untill it breaks down.
[/quote]

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Message 1434082 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 19:47:37 UTC

Similar things are happening throughout the western world. These are simply hidden taxes. You can justify it all you want, with "capital expenditures" and "debt reduction", it all boils down to the government needs more money, and elected governments know that an obvious tax raise is the kiss of death for them at the next election. Everybody wants the government goodies, but nobody wants to pay for them. So, the government hides the extra taxes. It seems to work, nobody complains too loudly when told the money goes for sewers or street lights or whatever.

For example, if I completely stopped using city water, my municipal water bill would go down by only about 50%. The rest of it goes on, in "sewer fees", "capital improvements", etc. The electrical bill is similar.

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Message 1434085 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 19:53:48 UTC - in response to Message 1434079.  

It seems you cant wine when CEO's only care about making themselves and the major stock holders rich. Which is why they never want to keep up with the infrstructure untill it breaks down.

I think you are conflating public infrastructure with private enterprise and bitching about the worst in each, especially when overseen by a regulatory body that refuses to allow a nice big fat rainy day fund to be built.

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Message 1434105 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 20:51:13 UTC - in response to Message 1434085.  

It seems you cant wine when CEO's only care about making themselves and the major stock holders rich. Which is why they never want to keep up with the infrstructure untill it breaks down.

I think you are conflating public infrastructure with private enterprise and bitching about the worst in each, especially when overseen by a regulatory body that refuses to allow a nice big fat rainy day fund to be built.


My electric comapany is not a public utillty Its a private company from the UK. But they are supposedly overseen by the PSC, So that we customers dont get shafted every time the CEO needs a new Lear jet.

And it seems like on the bills you get there is another user fee or tax that gets added. What galls me is a delivery charge for my power I use.
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Message 1434107 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 20:55:23 UTC

None off this would have come about with any of these utility companies had the
government, at the time of sale, stipulated that a set percentage of profits had
to be pumped back in to the business before a dividend could be declared.
A typical example of governments having no understanding on how business runs
but continually hell bent on interfering in it.


The Kite Fliers

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Message 1434111 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 21:00:09 UTC - in response to Message 1434092.  

Chris,

You should have three or four different power companies who have cables down your street to choose from. Without competition and without regulation ...

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Message 1434136 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 22:15:03 UTC

Thats why I get a big laugh when another company says we can save you money with our lower rate. Yeah but by the time National Grid whacks you with the delivery charge and taxes you dont save diddly squat.
[/quote]

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Message 1434154 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 23:53:09 UTC - in response to Message 1434136.  

Thats why I get a big laugh when another company says we can save you money with our lower rate. Yeah but by the time National Grid whacks you with the delivery charge and taxes you dont save diddly squat.

That's why I said has cables down the street ...

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Message 1434221 - Posted: 27 Oct 2013, 6:48:03 UTC

I've just run a price comparison for my bill. Over twenty percent between highest and lowest "normal" tariff using only suppliers who have declared this autumn's increases. The "big boys are in a band at the high end, while the little companies are banded at the low end.
The distribution cost is about 20% of the energy cost, and varies between supplier, being highest for the small companies. The biggest difference is in the energy cost, where the small companies use the "public" wholesale price, whereas the big ones tend to use an internal one (they are both producer and domestic supplier) and that tends to be much more than the public price....
Basically the big six companies are taking advantage of their high market share to overcharge their customers.
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Message 1434312 - Posted: 27 Oct 2013, 12:52:47 UTC
Last modified: 27 Oct 2013, 13:34:45 UTC

The UK governments have dug themselves a mighty big hole with this selling off of
the utilities business. To build a new atomic power station the consortium behind
the build gets twice the price for it electricity generated, Now I hear that
the consortiums behind the large wind powered generators are looking for the
same kind of deal. 180 wind generators are currently being constructed out in
the sea in a farm, I think off Wales. This is their last construction and will
not undertake any more unless they can be given a guaranteed return on their
investment...which means they wont two times the price for the electricity they
generate. The other two utilities will surely follow next with a scam of their
own. The government has lost control of this utilities situation and when the
electorate perceive that a government has lost control they will seek a body
that offers to take back control....you can guess what road I'm going down here,
and It's not the road that I'd particularly want choose.
The Kite Fliers

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Message 1434337 - Posted: 27 Oct 2013, 15:22:14 UTC

The utilities have become a legalised monopoly. If this mild spell of weather
was to carry on like this all through this coming winter then expect another
10% in crease in prices next year to cover loss of revenue required to pay the
share holders with.

The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1434343 - Posted: 27 Oct 2013, 15:24:59 UTC

And if the winter is a hard one expect a 10% increase to cover their "increased operating costs due to adverse weather conditions".
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Message 1434355 - Posted: 27 Oct 2013, 15:51:05 UTC

It's an ill wind that blows nobody good...

The Kite Fliers

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Message 1434356 - Posted: 27 Oct 2013, 15:57:22 UTC

Love the carbon tax.

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Message 1434617 - Posted: 28 Oct 2013, 2:22:31 UTC - in response to Message 1434362.  

Just done a tariff check on the British Gas site for Dual fuel. The tariff we are on "Online Variable May 2014" is already the cheapest. There is a "fixed price 2016" offer, but they'll frontload the prices per unit over the standard cost, and then in 3 years time wham!!! You bills will pick up the last 3 years increases all in one go. Best to pay as you go to manage you finance.

Unless of course you plan to emigrate in 2016 .....

Chris I plan on retireing in 2017. I might have to sub-let a room in my house to make ends meet. I can sponsor you:)
[/quote]

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Message 1435386 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 1:44:02 UTC

As stated elsewhere, it is my firm belief, that no utility company, ie, gas supply etc, electricity supply and generation, water supply (inc sewers, drainage and reservoirs) and arguably, landlines and 'public' transport should be owned or controlled by private companies. These are essential things that should not be provided on a 'for profit' basis. All these things are national assets and are too valuable to entrust to greedy, self-serving politicians and even more greedy companies. In the case of the UK, it could be argued that, since the respective political parties (usually, CONservative) didn't own those assets and did not have the permission of the people to sell them, they had no right to sell them and they should therefore be charged with fraud, theft and embezzlement - just for starters!

We do not need 'more companies' in the 'market place, when, quite obviously, it is not a market, but a cartel!!!



Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 1435438 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 4:56:35 UTC - in response to Message 1435386.  

As stated elsewhere, it is my firm belief, that no utility company, ie, gas supply etc, electricity supply and generation, water supply (inc sewers, drainage and reservoirs) and arguably, landlines and 'public' transport should be owned or controlled by private companies. These are essential things that should not be provided on a 'for profit' basis. All these things are national assets and are too valuable to entrust to greedy, self-serving politicians and even more greedy companies. In the case of the UK, it could be argued that, since the respective political parties (usually, CONservative) didn't own those assets and did not have the permission of the people to sell them, they had no right to sell them and they should therefore be charged with fraud, theft and embezzlement - just for starters!

We do not need 'more companies' in the 'market place, when, quite obviously, it is not a market, but a cartel!!!

I totally agree as our governments here have been doing this since the late 80's and where privatisation has step in the prices have sky rocketed out of this world (plus what they have sold off has always made a good profit for the public purse).

Cheers.
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Message 1435450 - Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 5:38:22 UTC - in response to Message 1435438.  

I totally agree as our governments here have been doing this since the late 80's and where privatisation has step in the prices have sky rocketed out of this world (plus what they have sold off has always made a good profit for the public purse).

Interesting. For most of my life the public electric company, publicly traded to boot, has been able, or required by the PUC, to charge lower rates than the municipal electric companies, unregulated, here in Los Angeles county California. This may be because the municipals have been forced by their politician overseers to overcharge to fatten up the municipal general fund.

Oh well, different corrupt politicians in different corrupt offices I suppose.

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