Since nearly all cars these days have high-level brake lamps

What about the vast majority of older ones that don't?

You're wriggling!

True that the vast majority of older cars don't, but i don't think older cars are the majority on the road, so the point stands.

Even if it does lead to confusion over which lights are on, surely that's better than not noticing the car in the first place, or being unsure how far away it is.

Wriggling? Hardly. I haven't said anything controversial enough to wriggle out of.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Headlights in fog can reflect back making diving even more difficult. There are front fog lamps as extras on most cars, and these work best as close to the road as possible i.e. they illuminate the road ahead not the fog above. They used to be yellow years ago, now mainly white. If you see heavy fog don't leave home and drive, but also don't abandon the vehicle and walk, either you or the car will get hit by following traffic.

Switch all lights on and crawl along a 5mph if you have to until you can safely turn off the road, i.e. a gas station or something. in thick fog it's usually more important to be seen than see.

Why not incorparate Infared cameras into a heads up display? Seems like a sensible way to solve thra problem. I would think that would also work in a snow storm too.

I have found that when we get a particualy nasty lake effect storm that at night turning off your headlights and just leaving the running lights on improves visability a lot. No I dont like doing that, And seldom is it neccessary,But it works to get you home.

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Old James

Since nearly all cars these days have high-level brake lamps

What about the vast majority of older ones that don't?

You're wriggling!

Rear Fog lamps

From the page:

Proponents of twin rear fog lamps say two lamps provide vehicle distance information not available from a single lamp. Proponents of the single rear fog lamp say dual rear fog lamps closely mimic the appearance of illuminated stop lamps (which are mandatorily installed in pairs), reducing the conspicuity of the stop lamps' message when the rear fogs are activated.

Agree with the first.
For the second, i think the surrounding conditions provide a fairly big clue as to what the lamps mean. Also, since nearly all cars these days have high-level brake lamps, there's a big enough distance to tell the two apart.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

When i bought the Orion it only had one fog light on the right, the left side had the bulb holder and wiring, but a little plastic blanking plate in the lens. Snapped that out, put a bulb in, and now i have both. Why couldn't Ford do that?

The vehicle was designed to be sold in the UK and abroad. In the UK you drove it as supplied with the foglight on the offside. If bought abroad you removed the blanking plate and swopped the bulb over.

I still maintain that two bulbs is better than one, it only costs a couple of pounds more for the bulb, since all the wiring is already there.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

When i bought the Orion it only had one fog light on the right, the left side had the bulb holder and wiring, but a little plastic blanking plate in the lens. Snapped that out, put a bulb in, and now i have both. Why couldn't Ford do that?

The vehicle was designed to be sold in the UK and abroad. In the UK you drove it as supplied with the foglight on the offside. If bought abroad you removed the blanking plate and swopped the bulb over.

Simon, I fear you would be going too fast. I guess it is so foggy you can't tell they are on the wrong side.

The photo is from California in a Tule Fog.

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15 mph maximum, probably less. And fog lights on!

I'd guess at two cars and a lorry in that pic, if they had their fog lights on they'd be much easier to spot.

On a side note, why do so many cars only have one fog light at the rear? Two should be mandatory then the person behind can judge how big the vehicle is and also how close to it they are.
When i bought the Orion it only had one fog light on the right, the left side had the bulb holder and wiring, but a little plastic blanking plate in the lens. Snapped that out, put a bulb in, and now i have both. Why couldn't Ford do that?

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Sorry for the big picture.
First, Would you even see the sign?

Second, What is the safe speed?

<ed>If you look carefully you will see there is a traffic signal in the picture! How many vehicles do you count?

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Saw the carnage on the BBC News, and the luck that no one was killed.

The police need to prosecute all drivers with bent bonnets for dangerous driving, unless they can show they were rear ended in to the car in front. A dash cam would be useful for proof.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

Same here in NY state when it snows. I slow down, when its snowing so bad you can barely see the road in daylight. But then you get theese 4 wheel drive trucks up on your bumper wanting you to go faster. Some are even stupid enough to pass you. 4 wheel drive vehicles are great for getting going but suck big time just as any other vehicle at stopping in snow or slush. I cant tell you how many ive seen in the ditch.

Many many times, fortunately in snow cases idiots tend to crash into lampposts and ditches rather than innocent bystanders.
There also seems to be a reluctance to fit winter tyres these days, i expect many drivers thinking that gizmos like ABS or traction control make them unnecessary.
The city i live in is quite hilly, and in winter it gives me a warm glow of smugness that my two-wheel-drive Orion with no driver aids at all, but fitted with winter tyres, is better able to climb hills than a four-wheel-drive off-roader with all the latest electronics but summer tyres, and a moron at the wheel.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

I should have gotten a police report and filed an insurance claim to replace my back bumper just to make it a hassle on him. Shoulda coulda woulda....

In my state if you don't file it they revoke your license ...

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... seems to give the drivers of them a false sense of security, and encourages them to drive beyond their capability. ...

That is a serious problem of all modern vehicle design. Some manufacturers even market their cars on how safe they are for the driver as though to encourage reckless driving!

There is also a trend to make cars too quiet and have the driver almost detached from any sense and feeling of driving. Too many drivers just point in the direction they hope to go and everything else is detached 'magic' for them... Unfortunately, including heavy goods vehicle drivers...

Which leaves over 1 ton (for cars) of high speed danger to everything else around them.


And then everyone wonders and gets upset as the speed limits get reduced ever further to allow for the increasing morons quotient...

So how to fix?...

Insist on a drivers test retake every five years as a first step? Include a stark section on driver responsibility and liability.

Ensure that all vehicle add-ons and gadgets are not unduly distracting to the driver?


All on and off our roads,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

4WD vehicles are higher than the average car so the driver gets a better view of the road, they also have this 4 wheel ability to get going, they are also larger and heavier in size. All that seems to give the drivers of them a false sense of security, and encourages them to drive beyond their capability. That doesn't apply to all 4WD owners of course, but does to far too many of them.

Fact 1 - 50% of the human race are morons and shouldn't be allowed to breed.

Fact 2 - 25% are get rich quick lawyers who also shouldn't be allowed to breed.

When it comes to driving cars in bad weather there is this attitude that, when the going gets tough, the tough get going, and that it is wimpish to slow down for a bit of fog. Stamp out that attitude and we might just be getting somewhere. I know the Sheppey crossing over the river Swayle as we holidayed in Leysdown for aome years, and yes, it gets foggy there.

Labels on electric kettles saying "caution gets hot during use" are insisted upon by insurance companies, otherwise one of the aforementioned morons will burn themselves and use a get rich quick lawyer to sue the kettle manufacturer and claim compensation, and they would win. The same with railways and "alight the other side". They wouldn't be able to have public liability insurance and be in business without it.

Same here in NY state when it snows. I slow down, when its snowing so bad you can barely see the road in daylight. But then you get theese 4 wheel drive trucks up on your bumper wanting you to go faster. Some are even stupid enough to pass you. 4 wheel drive vehicles are great for getting going but suck big time just as any other vehicle at stopping in snow or slush. I cant tell you how many ive seen in the ditch.

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Old James

Fact 1 - 50% of the human race are morons and shouldn't be allowed to breed.

Fact 2 - 25% are get rich quick lawyers who also shouldn't be allowed to breed.

When it comes to driving cars in bad weather there is this attitude that, when the going gets tough, the tough get going, and that it is wimpish to slow down for a bit of fog. Stamp out that attitude and we might just be getting somewhere. I know the Sheppey crossing over the river Swayle as we holidayed in Leysdown for aome years, and yes, it gets foggy there.

Labels on electric kettles saying "caution gets hot during use" are insisted upon by insurance companies, otherwise one of the aforementioned morons will burn themselves and use a get rich quick lawyer to sue the kettle manufacturer and claim compensation, and they would win. The same with railways and "alight the other side". They wouldn't be able to have public liability insurance and be in business without it.

"Personal responsibility" is a pair of four letter words among some over here.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?