Observation of CreditNew Impact (2)

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Lionel

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Message 1396033 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 3:36:48 UTC - in response to Message 1395580.  

Blurf, I for one have written to Dr Anderson on this issue and I will continue to express my view in this thread.

Bill, you may be correct in that Dr Anderson may take no action as we are just volunteers and do not "affect his pay packet" as you say, but I am giving him time to initiate appropriate analysis after which I will write to the Vice Chancellor of Berkeley University. I would also suggest that others should communicate with Dr Anderson and if nothing eventuates, consider writing to the Vice Chancellor as well.

cheers all

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Profile James Sotherden
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Message 1396062 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 5:25:37 UTC - in response to Message 1396033.  
Last modified: 29 Jul 2013, 5:28:07 UTC

Blurf, I for one have written to Dr Anderson on this issue and I will continue to express my view in this thread.

Bill, you may be correct in that Dr Anderson may take no action as we are just volunteers and do not "affect his pay packet" as you say, but I am giving him time to initiate appropriate analysis after which I will write to the Vice Chancellor of Berkeley University. I would also suggest that others should communicate with Dr Anderson and if nothing eventuates, consider writing to the Vice Chancellor as well.

cheers all



Good plan, Cry to the chancellor's about Dr A. being a meany about credit new,And how your poor RAC has sufferd so.

The only thing I can see happening is that if enough of you shed tears long and loud enough is that UC Berkley might just say running SETI@home isnt worth the trouble or expense.

Is that what you want?
[/quote]

Old James
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Lionel

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Message 1396065 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 5:39:07 UTC - in response to Message 1396062.  
Last modified: 29 Jul 2013, 5:50:46 UTC

James, you are entitled to your view. You may not agree with what I am saying or going to do (which is fine) but sarcasm is not needed.

Regarding your comment "The only thing I can see happening is that if enough of you shed tears long and loud enough is that UC Berkley might just say running SETI@home isn't worth the trouble or expense. Is that what you want?", that is a decision that Berkeley must make and if that decision was made from my letter to the Vice Chancellor on the back of a complaint about lack of scientific rigor around a credit system then I would have to say that Berkeley would have been on the verge of doing such regardless. However, it is one of the things that I am considering raising within my letter to the Vice Chancellor.

cheers
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Profile James Sotherden
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Message 1396066 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 5:48:32 UTC - in response to Message 1396065.  

James, you are entitled to your view. You may not agree with what I am saying or going to do (which is fine) but sarcasm is not needed.

cheers


Well if this project gets shut down, You better expect a lot of sarcasm.
[/quote]

Old James
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Lionel

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Message 1396071 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 6:03:02 UTC - in response to Message 1396066.  


There are possibly 3 other projects that will be starting to come online over the next 2-5 years that could be used to look for ET. These are: UK SETI Research Network (UKSRN); SKA and ASKAP. If they come online and have "@home" applications, my view is Berkeley will move towards shutting down Seti and all of the volunteers (for Seti@home) will move to other seti applications. The shut down won't happen straight away, but on the back of dwindling volunteers and lack of scientific output compared to other science projects.

cheers
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bill

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Message 1396075 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 6:13:00 UTC - in response to Message 1396033.  

I am being sincere when I say good luck with that. And if
you do end up contacting the Vice Chancellor ask him
if you can repeat his reply here in the forum, although
I suspect he will not to fiddle with researchers projects unless
there is nonfeasance, misfeasance, malfeasance, or something
illegal involved.
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Thomas
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Message 1396076 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 6:17:59 UTC

I think that James is absolutely right Lionel.
It's better to solve our "problems" between US.
The Vice Chancellor is certainly the last person to contact.
On the other hand, we can continue to speak about it, to open other forums, to make proposals and to make live the subject until there is a change.
These forums are here for that and I'm sure that Eric and David got wind of our complaints.
And I'm not agree at all with you about your last post : the projects about which you speak "should be born" but it's so difficult to make a project live.
And you are more attached to your RAC than to the community SETI@home which is exceptional ?
Certainly we meet problems but I think that it's also necessary to know how to put in perspective.
The project moves forward and the new version is the proof.
The staff of SETI@home is always present to assure the maintenance against all odds.
And you're a member of the project since 13 years !
SETI4EVER ! :)
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Lionel

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Message 1396082 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 6:57:39 UTC - in response to Message 1396075.  

Bill, no need to. My intent is to post any reply within the forum anyway.

cheers
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Profile John Neale
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Message 1396140 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 11:07:39 UTC - in response to Message 1396071.  

There are possibly 3 other projects that will be starting to come online over the next 2-5 years that could be used to look for ET. These are: UK SETI Research Network (UKSRN); SKA and ASKAP. If they come online and have "@home" applications, ...

<Snip>

Lionel, do you have any evidence that this will be the case?
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Message 1396141 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 11:15:41 UTC

The SETI Institute is already running projects like SETIQuest amd SETILive. But I don't know how many people are taking part and doing some work, like we do.
Tullio
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Message 1396248 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 16:58:15 UTC - in response to Message 1396033.  

Blurf, I for one have written to Dr Anderson on this issue and I will continue to express my view in this thread.

Bill, you may be correct in that Dr Anderson may take no action as we are just volunteers and do not "affect his pay packet" as you say, but I am giving him time to initiate appropriate analysis after which I will write to the Vice Chancellor of Berkeley University. I would also suggest that others should communicate with Dr Anderson and if nothing eventuates, consider writing to the Vice Chancellor as well.

cheers all

You are aware that BOINC, is open source. Anyone is free to change it as they please as long as they comply with the GPL terms. Most of the developers are not even in the USA. Complaining to the University is a waste of time.

Air your complaints on the BOINC developers forums. But be aware that Credit New was requested by the admins of numerous projects, the actual users of the BOINC server software.

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Message 1396270 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 17:34:57 UTC - in response to Message 1396248.  

My understanding was a different credit system was asked for, rather than the original cobblestone method.

But what I don't think they asked for is a system that reduces credits for work done when the application changes. It appears that credits for V6 and V7 are approx equal at the same AR, but V7 does more work and therefore takes longer so one would have thought should get more credits, so that the host maintains its RAC.

If other projects running creditnew had aligned their credits with Seti's V6, do they now have to reduce their credits just because V7 has been released on Seti?
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Message 1396337 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 21:08:41 UTC - in response to Message 1396270.  
Last modified: 29 Jul 2013, 21:09:22 UTC

My understanding was a different credit system was asked for, rather than the original cobblestone method.

... If other projects running creditnew had aligned their credits with Seti's V6, do they now have to reduce their credits just because V7 has been released on Seti?

A fundamental essential part of Science is consistency and to be consistent. Unfortunately in contrast to that, the Boinc credits mechanism looks to be based on a moving abstraction and at most only (unreliably) indirectly measures work/performance to award credit.


Can there be an implementation that can be calibrated to something real-world tangible?

As is often the problem, who has the time and interest to make that happen?!


Happy fast crunchin',
Martin
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Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
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Message 1396344 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 21:30:54 UTC - in response to Message 1396033.  

Blurf, I for one have written to Dr Anderson on this issue and I will continue to express my view in this thread.

Bill, you may be correct in that Dr Anderson may take no action as we are just volunteers and do not "affect his pay packet" as you say, but I am giving him time to initiate appropriate analysis after which I will write to the Vice Chancellor of Berkeley University. I would also suggest that others should communicate with Dr Anderson and if nothing eventuates, consider writing to the Vice Chancellor as well.

cheers all


Do as you will but be cautioned that there were rumblings some time back that if people whined about the forums/project too much to the Chancellor's office that the project could simply be shut down.


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Ulrich Metzner
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Message 1396347 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 21:33:45 UTC

So it's sink or swim - really?! :?
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1396349 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 21:40:14 UTC - in response to Message 1396347.  

So it's sink or swim - really?! :?


Sorry friend, you're a volunteer....not much to be done.


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Ulrich Metzner
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Message 1396350 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 21:46:57 UTC - in response to Message 1396349.  

Sorry friend, you're a volunteer....not much to be done.

Yes, but even simple volunteers need some motivation - don't they? ;)
Aloha, Uli

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Message 1396355 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013, 22:01:16 UTC - in response to Message 1396350.  

Yes, but even simple volunteers need some motivation - don't they? ;)


You get credits and you help science. That's all the motivation I need.


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Lionel

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Message 1396442 - Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 2:28:49 UTC - in response to Message 1396355.  

Blurf, re your comment "Do as you will but be cautioned that there were rumblings some time back that if people whined about the forums/project too much to the Chancellor's office that the project could simply be shut down.", then we shall see.
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Lionel

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Message 1396451 - Posted: 30 Jul 2013, 3:12:52 UTC - in response to Message 1396140.  

There are possibly 3 other projects that will be starting to come online over the next 2-5 years that could be used to look for ET. These are: UK SETI Research Network (UKSRN); SKA and ASKAP. If they come online and have "@home" applications, ...

<Snip>

Lionel, do you have any evidence that this will be the case?


John, no direct evidence at this stage with any of the 3 projects. I have not communicated to anyone in UKSRN so am totally unaware of any intent. I was hoping that others in the UK would pick this up. In relation to SKA and ASKAP, I have not verbally spoken to anyone directly but have communicated via email rather informally to try and gauge what the projects intent may possibly look like (there is no promise here). As you would appreciate, I cannot comment for either project and am in no position to do so. Having said that, I believe that there will initially NOT be an "@home" application however in the longer term there is a likely hood/probability of such being developed. I also believe that if these apps do come on line, then volunteer based resources will drift away from Berkeley and, as should be the case, Berkeley should eventually re-assess its commitment to this project. I would consider it only natural for Berkeley to re-assess its commitment to this project on a regular basis as part of its normal business practice anyway, so I would not see anything new or untoward in this.

To the above, I would offer the following which is publicly available, and which you and others may find interesting (a taste of things to come maybe):
http://phys.org/news/2012-06-seti-ska.html

I must say though that the allure to move to one of these projects and crunch for uncharted skies is most appealing...in the end, only time will tell.

cheers
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Message boards : Number crunching : Observation of CreditNew Impact (2)


 
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