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Message 1411968 - Posted: 5 Sep 2013, 22:59:19 UTC

I'm beginning to think that operation Snowdon is a cooperative venture between China, Russia, and the USA.
It's a sting operation.
Crippled Technology is being leaked and adopted by people who think that they'll be safe now.
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Message 1411973 - Posted: 5 Sep 2013, 23:37:46 UTC - in response to Message 1411968.  

... Crippled Technology is being leaked...

Nah...

This is all just a wake-up call for what was already long ago known.

No 'secrets' have been divulged. It is all just a game of publicity for what we all should already know...


Roll on 1984?

Politics is what we allow it to be...
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Message 1412114 - Posted: 6 Sep 2013, 11:14:19 UTC - in response to Message 1412095.  

latest on leaks

404 - Asylum Not Found

This might be because you left the country illegally. Please check the destination and luggage ensuring that it does not contain national secrets or classified documents.

It is possible that the dissedent you were looking for may have defected, escaped or absconded.

Please click the back button to silence another leak.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1431099 - Posted: 20 Oct 2013, 15:06:56 UTC
Last modified: 20 Oct 2013, 15:09:33 UTC

I still consider Snowden to be a patriot of the highest order.

He has revealed that there is too much stealth and secrecy in our government that is NOT directed in the name of national security, but directed at the American people instead.

The government needs to be taken down.
Dismantled, and reinstated from scratch to again become what our forefathers envisioned and directed.

It would take about 2 percent of what is currently known as our government to keep this country running. 2 percent, tops.

The rest is all just a money laundering scheme to extort taxes from the masses and do with it what they will. That's all our government has become. They are extortionists. Criminals.

WE DON'T NEED our money to be extracted from the local level, skimmed by Washington and dribbled back to us as they see fit.

Wisconsin is a prosperous state. Our governor Walker has just passed a property tax DECREASE.........
Yes, a decrease in taxes. We did not need Washington. We just needed to cut things that did not need to be funded and give the rest back to the people who earned it.

Nuke the white house, and things would get a lot better for most of this nation.

Spill it all, Snowden.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1431119 - Posted: 20 Oct 2013, 16:07:51 UTC

I do wish people would decide what they want.

Do you want the government to detect those that are in your country but wish you harm or do you want another 9/11?
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Message 1431215 - Posted: 20 Oct 2013, 20:42:38 UTC - in response to Message 1431119.  

I do wish people would decide what they want.

Do you want the government to detect those that are in your country but wish you harm or do you want another 9/11?


Actually, that's the tricky tight rope most Americans want the Government to follow..most Americans acknowledge the need for intelligence gathering for national security purposes, as long as it isn't over bearing and infringing on our civil liberties.

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Message 1431226 - Posted: 20 Oct 2013, 21:03:34 UTC - in response to Message 1431215.  

I do wish people would decide what they want.

Do you want the government to detect those that are in your country but wish you harm or do you want another 9/11?


Actually, that's the tricky tight rope most Americans want the Government to follow..most Americans acknowledge the need for intelligence gathering for national security purposes, as long as it isn't over bearing and infringing on our civil liberties.

The problem is it isn't only being used to go after terrorists.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/10/new-amicus-brief-urges-court-order-criminal-discovery-surveillance-programs
If it were and there was a time limit on keeping the data ... perhaps, but the government will never be kept in check if it operates from a position of FUD.


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Message 1431257 - Posted: 20 Oct 2013, 22:51:46 UTC

To be honest I have been following the Snowden case as it applies this side of the pond. This article in the Gaurdian, GCHQ Tempora sign-off should be investigated, says Chris Huhne.

It shows what what data is kept and for how long, which appears to be different to what happens over there.
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Message 1432720 - Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 18:48:47 UTC - in response to Message 1431257.  

The National Security Agency monitored the phone conversations of 35 world leaders after being given the numbers by an official in another US government department, according to a classified document provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/nsa-surveillance-world-leaders-calls
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Message 1432924 - Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 23:57:15 UTC - in response to Message 1432720.  

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Message 1432965 - Posted: 25 Oct 2013, 0:54:55 UTC - in response to Message 1432924.  

every phone call??


Snowden: NSA keeps record of every telephone call in the United States

Might be overstated, because the Podunk Hollow phone company hasn't modernized to to the point that they can send records to the NSA, something about a manual switchboard ...

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Message 1433108 - Posted: 25 Oct 2013, 8:59:53 UTC

Still, it's a quick way to make enemies of your friends.

Cheers.
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Message 1433182 - Posted: 25 Oct 2013, 13:41:25 UTC - in response to Message 1433117.  

The situation is quite simple. After 9/11 the USA set itself up as the worlds policeman against international terrorism. That is why they are monitoring the whole world. Now, whether the rest of the world should allow them to do that is another matter. All Snowden has done is muddy the waters.

What's this 9/11 date? Was far before that. Someone had to go pick up the place after all those lines got drawn in the sand.

Seems I remember talk in the '70's about all phone calls crossing the border being monitored. When you have a multi-decade program in place, mission creep is inevitable.

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Message 1433243 - Posted: 25 Oct 2013, 15:15:25 UTC - in response to Message 1433226.  

Seems I remember talk in the '70's about all phone calls crossing the border being monitored

What border are we talking about?

What country did you start with?

The analogy was the phone call was no different that presenting yourself to customs to be searched.


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Message 1433962 - Posted: 26 Oct 2013, 11:23:27 UTC - in response to Message 1433243.  
Last modified: 26 Oct 2013, 11:54:15 UTC

So, when I was in the RAF (later, Intelligence) at RAF St Mawgan, it would've been OK to have bugged the USMC at RAF St Mawgan? Really? As for the 'presentation at border' argument, that works fine, except you are presenting yourself at a border, not a border being being abused! Maybe I should go to Menwith and make several citizen's arrests for espionage. After all, the Police can only act with the permission of the populace and people working for 'foreign' intelligence agencies in this country don't have those permissions - they're fair game in my books!
Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 1439972 - Posted: 7 Nov 2013, 20:58:24 UTC

Intelligence gathering defends freedom

Have to agree to a degree. However, this Snowden debacle is becoming one giant political/Media fest.

Those with the most up to date intelligence wins wars. Without it, how many more 9/11 or 7/7's would there have been?

The problem as I see it, is that the balance here is getting skewered. Throughout history there has always been intelligence wars even in peacetime.

Forewarned is forearmed.
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Message 1440081 - Posted: 8 Nov 2013, 1:49:55 UTC
Last modified: 8 Nov 2013, 1:52:03 UTC

"Intelligence" started (for confidence for the Germans) and then won (for the allies) World War II.

Total surveillance gives the control of George Orwell's 1984.

And any true democracy is always vulnerable to minor atrocities from any fanatics.


The real power of democracy is to have a robust enough society that "1984"-style surveillance is never needed.

Anything less is a corruptocracy or a dictatorship.


All in our only one world,
Martin
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Message 1440082 - Posted: 8 Nov 2013, 1:56:09 UTC - in response to Message 1440081.  

So what about this then......

EU says fight fire with fire

Just how many of those 28 nations will really agree with that?

However, if they do, just how many will hold back crucial intelligence because of their 'ivory tower' attitude?
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Message boards : Politics : Snowden.......


 
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