What do you think?
I shall state what I think and probably not post to this thread again, because I know some idiots shall come around and troll it and bring me a sh*tstorm.
I don't care.

Snowden.

I consider him a Patriot of the highest degree. Worthy of such honors that this country could bestow. Of course, they shall not.......as their sorry arse and ox has been gored. I pray he finds safe haven somewhere.

He did not really reveal anything that an idiot could not have guessed was going on. He only revealed the extent of it. He did not endanger our national security, no matter what the pols with their now endangered butts say.

Their 'secret society' has been outed. And that is what this is all about.
That's why they are so rabid.
And are starting to eat each other to get at the carrot.

I suppose there are a few things that could be clouded in the name of protecting society. But, this is not one of them.

And friends, this is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
You don't have a freaking clue what else they are doing. You really do not.

Snowden has probably given up the rest of his natural life of freedom to inform the rest of us.

God bless him. It's no longer politically correct for God to continue to bless this country.

Snowden once again revealed the truth in the statement (paraphrased, I don't know the exact quote or origin right now OK?).

"The only thing required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."
May have been Churchill.

Snowden has done a a wonderful thing, as patriots go. He has defied those that would suppress him, and as far as the law will go, he may have given his life to do that.

The only issue here is that a man had the audacity to challenge the administration with their own deeds and their own words.

And, it's about time somebody did.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

I tend to agree with you. This guy should be considered a whistle blower and protected for showing us what our gov't is wasting its money on.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

No disagreement here.

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Well said, Mark.

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Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!

I tend to agree with you. This guy should be considered a whistle blower and protected for showing us what our gov't is wasting its money on.

I think it's more important for us citizens to know how badly the government is spying on us. Governments, by default, waste money in pathetic amounts all the time, so it's to be expected.

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I think it's more important for us citizens to know how badly the government is spying on us. Governments, by default, waste money in pathetic amounts all the time, so it's to be expected.

I would agree with your first statement if the word "badly" was changed to how much.

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If Mr. Snowden had just disclosed that there was a program, I could tend to agree that he was a whistle-blower, but he didn't. He went further and disclosed operational details, sufficient to devise methods to evade the web of capture.

The existance of the program wasn't even really secret, far to many low level phone techs knew of it and they weren't keeping their mouths shut; perhaps only the full scope was not generally known.

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http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/02/ecuador-president-helping-snowden-was-a-mistake/#ixzz2XuqVRDR5 wrote:

Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa told the Associated Press Sunday that helping leaker Edward Snowden secure passage from Hong Kong was a mistake.

Did the USA get to Ecuador? So what does this mean for Assange?

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Snowden is not on the plane, AFP reports

AFP are reporting that Austrian foreign ministry officials have confirmed Edward Snowden is not on the plane.

The report continues:

"President Morales will leave early Wednesday morning for La Paz," the Bolivian capital, ministry spokesman Alexander Schallenberg told AFP. Austria did not know why Morales's plane had landed there, he added.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

Portugal a lap dog of the USA?

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Oooops? A misstatement? Erroneous???
Or a lie?

I still think Snowdon is a classic and most profound Patriot.

Especially in light of this moron's statement.

DNI chief Clapper apologizes for 'erroneous' answer on NSA surveillance.

Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has apologized for telling Congress the National Security Agency doesn’t gather data on millions of Americans.

Ya think?

I am not sure what shall happen to Snowdon.

One of three things.

1. He shall return to the US and be executed for treason.
2. He shall live the rest of his life in exile from the US and continue to shame our bastard government with what he knows until he passes on.
3. He shall return to the US and be revered for the Patriot he is after the current government is sent to prison for his damning revelations.

I, personally, am hoping for door number 3.
Although door number 2 would not be a bad second.

I have already stated that I do not believe he has impaired our national security efforts one iota. And I sincerely believe that. The only harm he has done is to the status of those who have come to believe that they are totally above the American people. And can do what they wish without impunity.

It is far too long and away that they should learn that they are NOT.
And this goes right up to the top, babies.......right up to the top.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

I am not American. But I read the NY Times, the best paper in the world. I've read and printed an OP-ED article, titled The Criminal N.S.A, on June 27.
Tullio

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Considering very real world events, not sure how this one should be viewed...


Play the Snowden flights boardgame: Avoid going directly to Jail

If Vladimir Putin is to be believed, the PRISM whistleblower Edward Snowden is considering his options from the transit capsule hotel at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport...

... Aeroflot's Moscow-Havana flight would normally pass right over Florida, and you can bet that the TSA would either refuse permission to such a flight carrying an Edward Snowden, or warn the Russians that the flight might be forced down. ...

... So how can Snowden fly out of Moscow without ruffling feathers?...

... Planes can do what Snowden needs - there just aren't any planes scheduled to do those things. ...


All a political game of sacrificial pawns?

All in our own world,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Considering very real world events, not sure how this one should be viewed...


Play the Snowden flights boardgame: Avoid going directly to Jail

If Vladimir Putin is to be believed, the PRISM whistleblower Edward Snowden is considering his options from the transit capsule hotel at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport...

... Aeroflot's Moscow-Havana flight would normally pass right over Florida, and you can bet that the TSA would either refuse permission to such a flight carrying an Edward Snowden, or warn the Russians that the flight might be forced down. ...

... So how can Snowden fly out of Moscow without ruffling feathers?...

... Planes can do what Snowden needs - there just aren't any planes scheduled to do those things. ...


All a political game of sacrificial pawns?

All in our own world,
Martin

Im sure the Russians still have a few submarines on duty. Id say tell the world he is on a flight to Cuba and see what the US does. Meanwhile he is on a sub.
You dont think the stuff would hit the fan if the US did force down a plane?

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[/quote]

Old James

Im sure the Russians still have a few submarines on duty. Id say tell the world he is on a flight to Cuba and see what the US does. Meanwhile he is on a sub.
You dont think the stuff would hit the fan if the US did force down a plane?

As to forcing down a plane, if the rumor mongers are right, the USA did force down a plane known to be carrying the head of state. If they are willing to do this, and I doubt they did, then any plane is fair game. And what does this say about Mr. Assange? Would they hesitate to get a "crowd" together and storm and breech that embassy? Assuming they wanted him.

A sub is dang expensive, hell of a lot cheaper to put him on a Russian Military transport aircraft on a regular schedule between Russia and Cuba. As to being "forced" down, my guess the pilot will have orders to have a mechanical issue that requires him to land in Florida. Both sides will have shaken hands so that safety is assured and can go play huge gains on the home front with a disinformation propaganda blast. That's how it is played at this level.

Russia is done with this puke because he won't stop spilling the beans. He had his best offer and he spit on them. They want him gone. Just like Beijing.

What makes you think Russia wants him to spill the beans on the operational details of how to collect the data, at least publicly? What makes you think Russia isn't doing exactly the same at home? Not just Russia, but nearly every country? Do you think they want information that can be used to evade their vacuum cleaner technology disclosed? Don't forget this is all done with off the shelf components and all the intelligence services are doing it the same way. The US taught them!

I see where a couple of countries have offered him. However they refuse to issue him travel documents. More home front propaganda to keep them in office but dealing with the reality they don't want to see the business end of a US cruise missile.

This ends one way, Snowden being judged by a jury of his peers. He better start praying for jury nullification.

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Im sure the Russians still have a few submarines on duty. Id say tell the world he is on a flight to Cuba and see what the US does. Meanwhile he is on a sub.
You dont think the stuff would hit the fan if the US did force down a plane?

As to forcing down a plane, if the rumor mongers are right, the USA did force down a plane known to be carrying the head of state. If they are willing to do this, and I doubt they did, then any plane is fair game. And what does this say about Mr. Assange? Would they hesitate to get a "crowd" together and storm and breech that embassy? Assuming they wanted him.

A sub is dang expensive, hell of a lot cheaper to put him on a Russian Military transport aircraft on a regular schedule between Russia and Cuba. As to being "forced" down, my guess the pilot will have orders to have a mechanical issue that requires him to land in Florida. Both sides will have shaken hands so that safety is assured and can go play huge gains on the home front with a disinformation propaganda blast. That's how it is played at this level.

Russia is done with this puke because he won't stop spilling the beans. He had his best offer and he spit on them. They want him gone. Just like Beijing.

What makes you think Russia wants him to spill the beans on the operational details of how to collect the data, at least publicly? What makes you think Russia isn't doing exactly the same at home? Not just Russia, but nearly every country? Do you think they want information that can be used to evade their vacuum cleaner technology disclosed? Don't forget this is all done with off the shelf components and all the intelligence services are doing it the same way. The US taught them!

I see where a couple of countries have offered him. However they refuse to issue him travel documents. More home front propaganda to keep them in office but dealing with the reality they don't want to see the business end of a US cruise missile.

This ends one way, Snowden being judged by a jury of his peers. He better start praying for jury nullification.

Of course every other country knows how to do it. It amazing how many folks are suprised by countrys spying on each other and their own citizens.
And Id say the Russians and Chinese have already had a look see at his data. They dont need his presence to understand how the stuff works. They could just as easily waste him now.
My point about the sub was that if you really want to move someone you dont say hes on this plane going to this place.
It will be interesting how this plays out.

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[/quote]

Old James

... It amazing how many folks are suprised by countrys spying on each other and their own citizens. ...

Indeed...

All a 'game' of subterfuge and catch-up?


NSA and GCHQ spy programmes face legal challenge

The British and US spy programmes that allow intelligence agencies to gather, store and share data on millions of people have been challenged in a legal claim brought by privacy campaigners...

... "One of the underlying tenets of law in a democratic society is the accessibility and foreseeability of a law. If there is no way for citizens to know of the existence, interpretation, or execution of a law, then the law is effectively secret. And secret law is not law. It is a fundamental breach of the social contract if the government can operate with unrestrained power in such an arbitrary fashion."

The civil rights group Liberty has also made a complaint to the IPT. It believes that its own electronic communications and those of its staff may have been unlawfully intercepted by the security services and GCHQ.


All lest we all descend into unfettered dictatorship and excesses...

All in our own little world,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

And the heat increases:


Snowden's Venezuela offer 'last chance' for political asylum – Russian official

Venezuela's offer of asylum could be NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden's "last chance" to avoid extradition to the US, an influential member of the Russian parliament suggested Sunday...

... The US highest ranking military official acknowledged Sunday that Snowden's disclosures had already damaged US relations with some allies and affected "the importance of trust".

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, told CNN that the US will "work our way back. But it has set us back temporarily."

Also Sunday, US House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said he "absolutely" thinks that one of the countries offering asylum will give Snowden the papers he needs to escape extradition.

He told CNN the US should look at trade agreements with the nations that are offering asylum "to send a very clear message that we won't put up with this kind of behavior". ...

... There has been no official response from Moscow in regards to the asylum offers.

But Pushkov's comments suggest that some influential voices in Russia are anxious for a solution. The Russian parliamentarian has previously said that Snowden can not "live" at the Moscow airport. ...

... But even if Snowden accepted the offer of asylum from Venezuela, problems getting to South America would continue to exist.

The only direct commercial flight from Moscow goes to Havana, Cuba, through European and US airspace. ...


What a tangled web...

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

http://rt.com/news/snowden-plane-route-cuba-965/

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