Curious, why don't you do AP work units?

Going by the enquiries on the forum they take a lot more effort to set things up to process without issues.

Like you I was suspicious of crunching AP's but the crashing RAC of my major cruncher since June 1 forced me to do something. The effort required I think depends on whether you have an ATI or an Nvidia card(s). Setting up an ATI card seems to involve a bit more fuss. But I can't really comment as I don't have any ATI cards

For an Nvidia card there are 2 ways to do it.
1) Run the Lunatics installer or,
2) Download the AP files from Lunatics and copy the exe file and dll's into your SAH directory, copy the NV aistub file and paste it into your existing app_info file deleting the extra <app_info> entries.(My preferred method, it makes for a neater app_info file)
3) Copy the suggested default entries that suit your card from the bottom of the Readme file into into the AP**NV.txt file (can't remember the full name).
4) Allow AP's in your SAH preferences file.
5) Run BOINC.

This takes about 15 minute to get a going machine.

Some tips.
The AP app is most efficient when running at least 2 instances per card.

While allocating a full CPU per AP instance is recommended, I've found that allocating 0.5 CPU's per instance make no difference to the run times and allows for more efficient CPU usage. Change the <av_cpus> entry in the AP section of you app_info file from 0.04 to 0.5.

Make sure you have at least V310.xx drivers installed

CPU usage and run times vary with the amount of blanking in the WU so run times can vary from ~25 mins. to ~1.5 hours.

Running 2 instances, the average crunching time per unit is around 45mins for a GTX580 and around 60 minutes for a GTX470

Have fun :)

T.A.

Curious, why don't you do AP work units?

Going by the enquiries on the forum they take a lot more effort to set things up to process without issues.

Like you I was suspicious of crunching AP's but the crashing RAC of my major cruncher since June 1 forced me to do something. The effort required I think depends on whether you have an ATI or an Nvidia card(s). Setting up an ATI card seems to involve a bit more fuss. But I can't really comment as I don't have any ATI cards

Neither do i, so I might wait to see just how far my RAC does fall, then give it a go.
If it's just a case of running Lunatics, changing the CPU value from .04 to .5 it may be worth the effort.

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Grant
Darwin NT

Curious, why don't you do AP work units?

Going by the enquiries on the forum they take a lot more effort to set things up to process without issues.

Like you I was suspicious of crunching AP's but the crashing RAC of my major cruncher since June 1 forced me to do something. The effort required I think depends on whether you have an ATI or an Nvidia card(s). Setting up an ATI card seems to involve a bit more fuss. But I can't really comment as I don't have any ATI cards

Neither do i, so I might wait to see just how far my RAC does fall, then give it a go.
If it's just a case of running Lunatics, changing the CPU value from .04 to .5 it may be worth the effort.

That should be all it takes.
If you get errors, it might require one more copy and paste operation to add some parameters to override the default settings.
Should be no muss, no fuss with NV cards.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Note: Data for last 6 days added and revised running average.


I’ve had a look at the data around v7 and v6 WUs and below is a quick observational analysis of my data.

Under v6, I was roughly averaging 100 credits per Work Unit (WU).
Under v7, it seems that the average is sitting around 75-80 credits per WU.
In looking at run-times and taking the outliers out, cpu run time was around 600-660 seconds (10-11 minutes) per WU for v6, and appears to be around 800-1100 seconds (13+ to 18+ minutes) for a v7 WU. CPU time seems to have gone up by a factor of 2-3 from 50-60 seconds for v6 to 90-180 seconds for v7.

So doing a quick Back of the Envelope (10.5/15.83=0.66) shows that from a WU processing/throughput capability, I can expect to do roughly 66% of the volume of WUs that I did before (for example, if I was doing 400 WUs per day under v6, I can now expect to do around 264 WUs per day under v7).

Looking at the impact on credit gives 0.66*0.775 = 0.514 or 51.4%. In essence I can expect that daily credit for v7 will drop to circa 51% of what I was getting under v6.

I am aware of the comments around “that the system needs time to settle down” and that “it thinks all the WUs coming back at the moment are easy, hence the low credit” however, if the system continues to perform as is, then I can expect to see no change from current trajectory.

To test the assumption, I have looked at credit per day for the last 20 days. Below is the data:

2013.05.16 – 244,130
2013.05.17 – 220,168
2013.05.18 – 231,098
2013.05.19 – 226,353
2013.05.20 – 224,723
2013.05.21 – 210,477
2013.05.22 - 0
2013.05.23 – 431,485
2013.05.24 – 229,312
2013.05.25 – 228,767
2013.05.26 – 239,021
2013.05.27 – 231,271
2013.05.28 – 231,050
2013.05.29 – 0
2013.05.30 – 392,635
2013.05.31 – 209,556
2013.06.01 – 123,072
2013.06.02 – 94,061
2013.06.03 – 102,333
2013.06.04 – 99,896
2013.06.05 - 65,653
2013.06.06 - 112,209
2013.06.07 - 102,538
2013.06.08 - 110,760
2013.06.09 - 89,757
2013.06.10 - 96,018
2013.06.11 - 111,653
2013.06.12 - 90,091
2013.06.13 - 119,848
2013.06.14 - 99,884
2013.06.15 - 104,561
2013.06.16 - 110,566
2013.06.17 - 110,603
2013.06.18 - 102,856
2013.06.19 - 85,268
2013.06.20 - 140,694
2013.06.21 - 70,247
2013.06.22 - 109,698

The average daily credit prior to migration was 221,878. Following migration on 1st June, the average daily credit is showing as 102,376 which is circa 46.1% of the previous daily average under v6.

I suspect that many are starting to see their RAC decline, but as RAC is a lagging indicator and is currently composed of v6 and v7 numbers, the end effect is being masked. As this mask evaporates and RAC asymptotes towards the underlying v7 values, I suspect that the grumblings in the forum may get louder.

Also, the average has come up slightly as "the system" has been sending me more "enhanced" wus to do. In looking at granted credit for these wus, they appear to be getting almost twice as much credit as a v7 wu.



Comment on comments

Whilst some are focusing just on credit, the issue is not about credit as such. It’s about recognition.

There are many distributed computing projects to which people contribute resources. The manner and means in which those projects recognise individual contribution is through a system that is based on and allocates credits. Some projects choose to recognise a person’s contribution more than other projects, thus they grant a higher credit rate per contribution for that project. In short, credits are effectively an indication of a person’s contribution to a project.

In the case of "the New Credit System" implemented by Seti, recognition of personal contribution has been reduced. At present, the indication is that recognition for effort is effectively half that of what it was prior to the new recognition system being employed.

---

Curious, why don't you do AP work units?

Going by the enquiries on the forum they take a lot more effort to set things up to process without issues.

Like you I was suspicious of crunching AP's but the crashing RAC of my major cruncher since June 1 forced me to do something. The effort required I think depends on whether you have an ATI or an Nvidia card(s). Setting up an ATI card seems to involve a bit more fuss. But I can't really comment as I don't have any ATI cards

Neither do i, so I might wait to see just how far my RAC does fall, then give it a go.
If it's just a case of running Lunatics, changing the CPU value from .04 to .5 it may be worth the effort.

No doubt that we NV users have an easier go of it than ATI folks. I started running the opencl AP's with the new installer release, but stopped when I ran into errors that were apparently caused by BOINC forcibly terminating jobs prior to their normal EOJ exit. I don't know whether or not a fix for that issue has been accomplished.

---

Curious, why don't you do AP work units?

Going by the enquiries on the forum they take a lot more effort to set things up to process without issues.

Like you I was suspicious of crunching AP's but the crashing RAC of my major cruncher since June 1 forced me to do something. The effort required I think depends on whether you have an ATI or an Nvidia card(s). Setting up an ATI card seems to involve a bit more fuss. But I can't really comment as I don't have any ATI cards

Neither do i, so I might wait to see just how far my RAC does fall, then give it a go.
If it's just a case of running Lunatics, changing the CPU value from .04 to .5 it may be worth the effort.

No doubt that we NV users have an easier go of it than ATI folks. I started running the opencl AP's with the new installer release, but stopped when I ran into errors that were apparently caused by BOINC forcibly terminating jobs prior to their normal EOJ exit. I don't know whether or not a fix for that issue has been accomplished.

Did you try the advice in the last couple of posts in this thread?
It worked for me.

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Curious, why don't you do AP work units?

Going by the enquiries on the forum they take a lot more effort to set things up to process without issues.

Like you I was suspicious of crunching AP's but the crashing RAC of my major cruncher since June 1 forced me to do something. The effort required I think depends on whether you have an ATI or an Nvidia card(s). Setting up an ATI card seems to involve a bit more fuss. But I can't really comment as I don't have any ATI cards

Neither do i, so I might wait to see just how far my RAC does fall, then give it a go.
If it's just a case of running Lunatics, changing the CPU value from .04 to .5 it may be worth the effort.

No doubt that we NV users have an easier go of it than ATI folks. I started running the opencl AP's with the new installer release, but stopped when I ran into errors that were apparently caused by BOINC forcibly terminating jobs prior to their normal EOJ exit. I don't know whether or not a fix for that issue has been accomplished.

I told you about the 'fix' for that issue back here, on page one, http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=71889&postid=1379669#1379669

It works.

I have noticed, in the past couple of days, that mid-range AR tasks running about 25,000 seconds validate with 105-120 credits, about what thee got under S@H v6, whereas right after v7 rollout they were getting about 80 credits.

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Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

My RAC finaly reaches the bottom of the sea, and start to rise (very...very slowly) worst case cenario 150K, not rises to 159K was 450K before.

As you all could imagine I´m so happy about that! I love Creditnew.

But i´m still crunching SETI until the last beer!

---

Still falling here, but not as fast as it was.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

I seem to have hit bottom now.

Not bad, from 90K down to 54K, but things seem to be slowly on the up.

Cheers.

I seem to have hit bottom now.

Not bad, from 90K down to 54K, but things seem to be slowly on the up.

I'm doing MB only, people doing AP as well won't take as big a hit.
It's MB that's had it's payout slashed.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

I seem to have hit bottom now.

Not bad, from 90K down to 54K, but things seem to be slowly on the up.

I'm doing MB only, people doing AP as well won't take as big a hit.
It's MB that's had it's payout slashed.

I only did AP's on my 2500K CPU, when they came along and you could grab 1, but now it seems to be all it does these days, with the odd MB V6 or V7 thrown in now and again to break the monotony (which is why it's now my higher RAC rig again).

Cheers.

I seem to have hit bottom now.

Not bad, from 90K down to 54K, but things seem to be slowly on the up.

Cheers.

My MB only cruncher is back on the rise. Its old V6 RAC was ~32k, it bottomed at around 18k but is now back up to 19.5k.

The V7 credits seem to have increased in value since last week.

T.A.

I seem to have hit bottom now.

Not bad, from 90K down to 54K, but things seem to be slowly on the up.

I'm doing MB only, people doing AP as well won't take as big a hit.
It's MB that's had it's payout slashed.

Mines gone up. Only using the GPUs.

Crunching Milkyway on the cpu at the momenr.

I seem to have hit bottom now.

Not bad, from 90K down to 54K, but things seem to be slowly on the up.

Cheers.

My MB only cruncher is back on the rise. Its old V6 RAC was ~32k, it bottomed at around 18k but is now back up to 19.5k.

The V7 credits seem to have increased in value since last week.

T.A.

I've noticed the same thing myself, about a 25-30% increase by the looks so far but they still have a long way to go yet (they may get back to right by Xmas).

Cheers.

Here are 3 identical crunchers spanning the changeover - for what is's worth (if anything) all 3 have identical CPU load.

(I hope this works!!)

Ed F



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42596478/SETI%20Graph%20CPU%202.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42596478/SETI%20Graph%20CPU%204.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42596478/SETI%20Graph%20CPU%206.jpg

I have also noticed the same "bottoming" out. My RAC dropped from ~102K to about ~60K and for the last few days I have seen a slight upturn of RAC on most of my rigs. I'm now "up" to about 69K. I'm going to have to add a couple more computers to the farm :)

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Seti Classic: 204,777 WU /113.636 Yrs

My RAC is down from over 5100 to about 3200.
I expect it to drop more as remaining v6 work units are gone and all V7 take over.
I have even added a few more computers.

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Mike Bader
BOINC V7.16.5
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/team_join_form.php?id=5 - Join Our International Team
[img]http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?

My RAC dropped from 13300 (end of May 2013) to about 7100 (15th June 2013) at more or less constant speed.
Then it started increasing again but only at half the speed it was decreasing.
Will watch it carefully!