SETI@home Version 7 has been released

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Message 1375103 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 3:25:18 UTC - in response to Message 1373233.  

hi jason

saw you mentioned in another post in this area as a guru for the lunatics ... i've gotten the .xml file corrected so seti (and i also use enstien as a backup) is running again ....

i was wondering if there was anyway i could tell that the lunatic overclocking setting were still in place? forgive my ignorance but i am just not well-versed on the inside workings of this program

thanks for any help :)
take care,
cormac :)

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Message 1375105 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 4:04:48 UTC - in response to Message 1374870.  


Only errors: hostid=6598140.

What is here the problem?


Could be a bad/overheating card or bad driver. My bigger concern is why the daily quotas are being reduced when the invalid results are found. That needs to be fixed.

Please do Not 'fix' this.
Computers that spit invalid results have to be punished somehow.
Else they will do that for 1000s of tasks per day.

Bigger issue is when 2 bad results (wrong overflow) match each other (so are marked valid) and the real good result is marked as invalid.


 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1375112 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 4:54:01 UTC - in response to Message 1375105.  

Not the way I see it.
Computers that spit invalid results have to be punished somehow.

One should not punish someone who is trying to do the right thing and failing, one should just try to minimize the damage and try to help them improve. This is part of the cost of doing business, the way it is done in distributed computing.
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Message 1375116 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:18:50 UTC - in response to Message 1375105.  

Computers that spit invalid results have to be punished somehow.

In fact on second thought punishment would be counterproductive to the project.
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Message 1375117 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:23:36 UTC - in response to Message 1375112.  

Not the way I see it.
Computers that spit invalid results have to be punished somehow.

One should not punish someone ...

I didn't say "punish someone" (human, user), I say punish "Computers that spit invalid results"
(and by 'punish' I mean in this case to only reduce the tasks those Computers can have per day until the Computer is fixed, not let those Computers burn through 1000s of tasks and generate invalids)


 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
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Message 1375118 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:24:38 UTC - in response to Message 1373842.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 5:28:54 UTC

The first invalid result of my machine (The WU was calculated correct! I'm a beta tester and the app is running very well on my system.), because of two wingman with 'SETI@home v7 v7.03 (opencl_ati5_sah)' apps and wrong results. :-(
So this WU is uncrunched and lost?

26mr10ab.22208.11282.8.12.10 - wuid=1255961084

OK, OK, the result have 5x 0.
But the next WU have maybe 'better' findings?!

Both wingmen are running too low an APP runtime version, need to be an APP SDK 2.6 driver/APP runtime :

Driver version: CAL 1.4.1607 (VM)
Version: OpenCL 1.1 AMD-APP-SDK-v2.5 (793.1)

Claggy


I found this hostid=6343230.

This machine D/L 8 MB AP files just for to trash them immediately.
Wasted bandwidth.

This machine have also a too old driver installed?

Why send SAH then WUs to such hosts...
Maybe the admins could adjust something for to prevent this?


* Best regards! :-) * Philip J. Fry, team seti.international founder. * Optimize your PC for higher RAC. * SETI@home needs your help. *
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Message 1375119 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:26:18 UTC - in response to Message 1375116.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 5:26:46 UTC

Computers that spit invalid results have to be punished somehow.

In fact on second thought punishment would be counterproductive to the project.

What would be counter productive is allowing invalid results in to the science database. This is a science project, the accuracy & integrity of the data is important.
If you're going to trash Wurk units, you don't get any more until you are able to return valid work.

If someone has a problem, they can ask for help in the appropriate forums. If they don't ask, it's ovbiously not important to them. But it is important to the project so their ability to trash work is limited.
Grant
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Message 1375120 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:27:57 UTC - in response to Message 1375112.  

One should not punish someone who is trying to do the right thing and failing, one should just try to minimize the damage and try to help them improve.

Hence the limit on the amount of damage they can do until they fix the problem.

Grant
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Message 1375122 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:37:22 UTC - in response to Message 1375105.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 5:37:58 UTC


Could be a bad/overheating card or bad driver. My bigger concern is why the daily quotas are being reduced when the invalid results are found. That needs to be fixed.

Please do Not 'fix' this.
Computers that spit invalid results have to be punished somehow.
Else they will do that for 1000s of tasks per day.


Sorry, typo, that should have said "aren't being reduced". Despite all the bad results that computer is still getting 100 results per day per app version.
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Message 1375123 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:38:28 UTC - in response to Message 1375012.  


Now my BOINC manager is requesting work about every 20-25 minutes, and getting the responses:
06/01/2013 3:33:04 PM | SETI@home | Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
06/01/2013 3:33:04 PM | SETI@home | Not requesting tasks
06/01/2013 3:33:06 PM | SETI@home | Scheduler request completed
06/01/2013 3:38:11 PM | SETI@home | Sending scheduler request: To fetch work.
06/01/2013 3:38:11 PM | SETI@home | Not requesting tasks
06/01/2013 3:38:13 PM | SETI@home | Scheduler request completed

ETC.


I had this happen on each of my GPU machines as soon as each one started processing its first v7 WU. BOINC reported all completed tasks, then went into the above loop with about a 5 minute communications backoff after each. After a couple hours on the first machine, I tried the manual "Update" project button which seemed to force a work request and cleared the loop. Unfortunately, that technique didn't work on the other three machines. The manual Update request did force a work request, but 5 minutes later the "fetch work / Not requesting tasks" loop resumed. I finally got it cleared by using the "Read config file" command on the "Advanced" menu. I don't actually have a config file, but it seemed to force a reset of the defaults and everything returned to normal from then on.

By the way, this problem did not occur on my CPU-only machines. It seems to be something triggered by the first v7 GPU task that a machine runs.
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Message 1375124 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 5:40:07 UTC - in response to Message 1375118.  

Maybe the admins could adjust something for to prevent this?


The change to prevent this went in yesterday. Let me know if its still happening.
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Message 1375187 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 7:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 1374987.  

NO! Another case of me being at the wrong website at the wrong time? I'm so able to be wrong - and apologize. The website just happened to go down? I thought I had a worm. Needless to say that is unacceptable after all the "testers" etc. You all just lost me and anyone I will ever meet. Well, maybe I will cut you some slack in Heaven and offer you a hug. Nytol.

That's a lot of drama for 8 days of participation.

I had no issues downloading v7 (cuda42 version for my NVIDIA card) last night, once I had renamed my old app_info.xml file to something else. I let enough of them complete and upload until I was certain everything was working fine, which it appears to be.
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Message 1375226 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 8:29:29 UTC

Please stop replaying on obvious spam. Someone here needs to read all of this junk after all. Mods, maybe some more active action is appropriate already? Whole half-hour of reading for nothing :/

SETI apps news
We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them.
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Message 1375230 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 8:37:06 UTC - in response to Message 1375103.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 8:38:40 UTC

hi jason

saw you mentioned in another post in this area as a guru for the lunatics ... i've gotten the .xml file corrected so seti (and i also use enstien as a backup) is running again ....

i was wondering if there was anyway i could tell that the lunatic overclocking setting were still in place? forgive my ignorance but i am just not well-versed on the inside workings of this program

thanks for any help :)


Hi cormac, and welcome to the forum.

Lunatics is due to release an update sometime soon (in the next couple of days) so watch the Number Crunching forum for an update on that. That forum is the best place for technical help of all sorts, of this kind, so posting there for help would be the best.

For monitoring what's going on with my tasks, I like to use Fred's BoincTasks http://www.efmer.eu/boinc/boinc_tasks/

I see you have a CPU cruncher there, so CPU monitoring applications like speedfan might be worth a look, while I use eVGA precision X for monitoring GPU (not applicable in your machine).

HTH
Jason
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1375271 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 9:35:39 UTC

OK gents, ladies, and others of indeterminate gender.

This thread is the NEWS about the introduction of SETI@Home version 7.

It is NOT about why a cruncher is returning duff results, it is NOT about BOINC version 7. There are threads that are working on those issues, have a look in "Number Crunching" and you may well find an answer to your question has already been posted. If not start a thread with your question, DO NOT pollute or divert other threads, as some folks get very tetchy about you so doing.
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Message 1375276 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 10:12:01 UTC - in response to Message 1374852.  

How many creds do you need to replace a 1990 Oldsmobile Ciera anyway?

Just replace it; whatever you replace it with (outside an Alfa Romeo) will magically multiply your street cred!
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Message 1375278 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 10:31:36 UTC - in response to Message 1374970.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 10:34:39 UTC

The most SAH members are 'stock' BOINC/SAH users.
The BOINC D/L all what is needed from the SAH server automatically.
Just check the 'SETI@home v7' ckeckbox in the project settings.

I can't remember if the checkbox was automatically unchecked or checked as the checkbox was added to the project settings. Other topic. ;-)

IMHO, it wasn't checked automatically.

If the member decide to use an app_info.xml file in the project folder, he, the member need to care about the installed apps.
He get this information before he install and use an app_info.xml file.

Correct. However....

So the member need to look from time to time to the number crunching forum about newest news/apps. Here is the thread in NC about new 3rd party apps.
And what is to do if something like now is happen.

So app_info.xml file user don't need to insult the SAH admins if the PC don't get newest apps.

I was not insulting the SAH admins. I expressed the lack of management that I noticed when switching to the V7 version.


The SAH admins and the Lunatics crew work very close together.


I doubt. If so, the SAH admins would have been waited for the Lunatics programmers to come up with a new application designed for V7 WU. One of the points I criticise most.


But, the admins can do nothing if the members decide to use 3rd party (Lunatics) apps.
The SAH server can send new apps only if there is no app_info.xml file in the project folder.


Isn't it pretty ignorant to know, that many participants supporting the project with computing time (and by that with money through the electricity bill) using Lunatics apps and not taking care of them in the preparation phase before going to another version? I see this responsibility on the side of the SAH admins.

Of course, the Lunatics apps are very welcome at SAH, but the member alone need to do then everything manually.
Install new apps, delete the app_info.xml file for to let run short time stock apps - like to the next Monday, and so on.

Again, a few weeks of close interaction with the Lunatics guys would have given them time enough to adopt the new version and in parallel release a new Lunatics app. This opportunity was missed by the SAH admins.

Let the admins time for to explain what this new search mean.
Just one before, this will increase the chance to find extraterrestrial life.

Beg you pardon, but why didn't the SAH admins develop an info sheet right away before the switch to V7? You had all the time you needed. It was your own schedule. The hasty release of V7 with no flanking / supporting measures was your decision, and it was managed poor.
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Message 1375280 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 10:40:15 UTC - in response to Message 1375278.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 10:41:01 UTC

The SAH admins and the Lunatics crew work very close together.

I doubt. If so, the SAH admins would have been waited for the Lunatics programmers to come up with a new application designed for V7 WU. One of the points I criticise most.

You "doubt" without knowledge - all the new apps are made by Lunatics

You can see this even in the News:
"My thanks to the KWSN/lunatics folks for getting this done and especially to Raistmer, Jason, Josef, Urs, Claggy, Mike, Richard, ..."

(and the new Lunatics installer is coming in a few days (maybe tomorrow))


 


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Message 1375286 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 11:18:11 UTC - in response to Message 1375278.  

Again, a few weeks of close interaction with the Lunatics guys would have given them time enough to adopt the new version and in parallel release a new Lunatics app. This opportunity was missed by the SAH admins.

There has actually been over two years of close interaction between the SETI admins and Lunatics (for SETI v7 alone - v6 and Astropulse collaboration continued and continues alongside). See Beta message 40285 - the distribution of test work for that v7 collaboration started on 17 March 2011.
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Message 1375318 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 12:34:24 UTC - in response to Message 1375118.  

The first invalid result of my machine (The WU was calculated correct! I'm a beta tester and the app is running very well on my system.), because of two wingman with 'SETI@home v7 v7.03 (opencl_ati5_sah)' apps and wrong results. :-(
So this WU is uncrunched and lost?

26mr10ab.22208.11282.8.12.10 - wuid=1255961084

OK, OK, the result have 5x 0.
But the next WU have maybe 'better' findings?!

Both wingmen are running too low an APP runtime version, need to be an APP SDK 2.6 driver/APP runtime :

Driver version: CAL 1.4.1607 (VM)
Version: OpenCL 1.1 AMD-APP-SDK-v2.5 (793.1)

Claggy


I found this hostid=6343230.

This machine D/L 8 MB AP files just for to trash them immediately.
Wasted bandwidth.

This machine have also a too old driver installed?

Why send SAH then WUs to such hosts...
Maybe the admins could adjust something for to prevent this?

The change as far as I know was to stop v7 work going to hosts with too old a APP runtime, this host has never had AMD v7 work because it is running Boinc 6.12.34, this Boinc doesn't do OpenCL detection so can't supply APP runtime version:

Application details for host 6343230

The AMD OpenCL AP problem is maybe a corrupt dll, exit code is: - exit code -1073741515 (0xc0000135), or maybe a total lack of AMD OpenCL support, drivers around that time had the OpenCL driver as an optional download,
the AMD OpenCL AP work it's receiving is using the ati_opencl_100 plan class, this uses the assumption that a GPU with driver x will also have OpenCL support, looking at the Cat 10.9 driver page there's no mention of an OpenCL driver being included,
Cat 11.1 is required before an OpenCL driver is mentioned as being included, since CAL version 1.4.900 is also shared with Cat 10.12, the minimum driver for this app version should be at least 11.2 (CAL 1.4.1016)

Claggy
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Message boards : News : SETI@home Version 7 has been released


 
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