Now that v7 has rolled out..........

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Profile arkayn
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Message 1371467 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 19:24:59 UTC - in response to Message 1371466.  

I should be mostly good as I am only crunching on the GPU's currently and I am already using the app that will be the stock app.

So I will just have to make some changes to my app_info and fire BOINC back up.

So....

I'm running Windows XP with BOINC 7.0.64. What would I have to change in this App_Info come next week?

Just set NNT, remove the app_info, reset the project, restart Boinc, unset NNT, the apps the project will supply will be newer than what you're already running, then wait for the following Monday.

Claggy

v7 will work with Windows XP Pro sp3?


Yes.

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Message 1371474 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 19:34:12 UTC - in response to Message 1371467.  

Well, if v7 works with XP Pro....Panic over.
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Message 1371484 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 19:49:32 UTC

Panic? Don't see a reason... people running stock probably won't notice anything or at least not much, people running opt apps will get messages about missing application in their app_info untill they update... so no real issues.

Is the "next Thursday" just a rumor or was it at least somewhere mentioned by anyone from the staff?
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Message 1371507 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 20:13:27 UTC - in response to Message 1371464.  

In spite of me saying that, lots of people will inevitably be fiddling with things and trashing their caches - lots of v6 resends for a while yet, while the rest of us learn how to do it properly.

I guess this means that, for a while, there will be V6 and V7 tasks?
If yes, then the worst thing for the users of optimized apps is just that we wont get any V7 until knowing how to change the app-info?
Well... it can be a bit worse than that if the demand of V6 tasks is higher than their production, but we will still have APs... not? :D
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Message 1371522 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 21:07:09 UTC - in response to Message 1371484.  
Last modified: 24 May 2013, 21:14:08 UTC

Panic? Don't see a reason... people running stock probably won't notice anything or at least not much, people running opt apps will get messages about missing application in their app_info untill they update... so no real issues.

Is the "next Thursday" just a rumor or was it at least somewhere mentioned by anyone from the staff?


Eric said so yesterday: http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/beta/forum_thread.php?id=2012&postid=46049

No panic for this slow old OSX cruncher, as it seems only for Windows and Linux.
My even older XP machine has been assigned to another project meanwhile, it wasn´t contributing in a very meaningful way to SETI.
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Message 1371529 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 21:18:07 UTC

There's absolutely no panic needed. If you lose a few days of crunching....oh well. You do what you need to do-ask the questions needed and come back online.


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Message 1371533 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 21:29:51 UTC - in response to Message 1371522.  

Panic? Don't see a reason... people running stock probably won't notice anything or at least not much, people running opt apps will get messages about missing application in their app_info untill they update... so no real issues.

Is the "next Thursday" just a rumor or was it at least somewhere mentioned by anyone from the staff?


Eric said so yesterday: http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/beta/forum_thread.php?id=2012&postid=46049

No panic for this slow old OSX cruncher, as it seems only for Windows and Linux.
My even older XP machine has been assigned to another project meanwhile, it wasn´t contributing in a very meaningful way to SETI.


There will also be apps for OSX as well.
Mac OS X 	7.00 	25 Mar 2013, 17:37:42 UTC
Mac OS X/Intel 	7.00 	25 Mar 2013, 17:37:42 UTC


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Message 1371536 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 21:42:38 UTC - in response to Message 1371533.  

But there aren't v7 SPARC/Solaris apps yet, or any v7 apps from the likes of dotsch yet, so anyone running his v5/v6 apps will need to update when (or if) v7 apps become available.

Claggy
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Message 1371538 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 21:56:21 UTC

Up until arkayns' statement a couple hours ago, SETI version 7 was said to NOT WORK with XP Pro. Try that scenario out for size. In that scenario, next week all XP Hosts would suddenly stop working with OpenCL Apps. Panic wouldn't accurately describe what would be flying around here. Forgive me if I wish to hear it from another source. Anyone else want to chime in?
AMD is also forcing us to give up on Windows XP...
XP will be dropped for stock app...
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Message 1371545 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 22:26:30 UTC
Last modified: 24 May 2013, 22:28:21 UTC

I just have to say this.

As some bloody well knew this was going to happen.

WTF did I just happen to chance upon the bloody note amongst team notices, eh?

I am pissed that I have been the harbringer of this to the masses.

You should all be ashamed of the way this happened.


Gawd, and I thought the US Government was a sham.

Bad, bad, bad.

And now I am gonna be considered something else on account of I took a message out of my private account and secret society.

I may never be trusted again.

I am sorry for all the trouble.

But, it had to fall on somebody's shoulders.
Best it be mine.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1371547 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 22:32:05 UTC - in response to Message 1371533.  

No panic for this slow old OSX cruncher, as it seems only for Windows and Linux.
My even older XP machine has been assigned to another project meanwhile, it wasn´t contributing in a very meaningful way to SETI.


There will also be apps for OSX as well.
Mac OS X 	7.00 	25 Mar 2013, 17:37:42 UTC
Mac OS X/Intel 	7.00 	25 Mar 2013, 17:37:42 UTC


Also next week? Nice to be leveled if so. I think I can manage to not panic over this.
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Message 1371550 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 22:35:18 UTC - in response to Message 1371538.  
Last modified: 24 May 2013, 22:35:38 UTC

Up until arkayns' statement a couple hours ago, SETI version 7 was said to NOT WORK with XP Pro. Try that scenario out for size. In that scenario, next week all XP Hosts would suddenly stop working with OpenCL Apps. Panic wouldn't accurately describe what would be flying around here. Forgive me if I wish to hear it from another source. Anyone else want to chime in?
AMD is also forcing us to give up on Windows XP...
XP will be dropped for stock app...

Surely this is only for AMD??

Someone who knows should please explain.
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Message 1371558 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 23:06:26 UTC

I really do not know anything other that what I have posted.

I am myself going to have hell to pay to change all my crunchers over.

I would rather I had't drawn that hand back.

But once I did, your have only two choices.

Be in, or back the F off.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1371561 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 23:10:11 UTC

I am talking in general terms of course.

XP will be supported for the CPU apps, the GPU apps have their own requirements which will be different and might exclude XP if the installed driver version is too new.

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Message 1371563 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 23:16:32 UTC - in response to Message 1371550.  
Last modified: 24 May 2013, 23:43:35 UTC

Surely this is only for AMD??

Someone who knows should please explain.


The reference is for AMD(ATi) Graphics Cards, in particular OpenCL/Driver support (if I understand correctly).

I don't presume to know details of AMD's decision, though can vouch that for Vista onwards, driver development is fairly radically different than XP. Running 2 driver branches instead of one, would be costly to develop, maintain & support. This is while the bulk of their sales is probably geared to DirectX11/11.1, integrated graphics, consoles & Macs.

I doubt that nVidia will follow suit with pruning XP Cuda support, even though it could. Since I support as far back as Cuda 2.2 for stock, and plan to into the future, probably older OS & the hardware for it wouldn't miss newer Cudas. Generally Newer gen Cuda cards run better with newer drivers & OS, being designed to go together...
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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Message 1371570 - Posted: 24 May 2013, 23:37:08 UTC - in response to Message 1371563.  

Surely this is only for AMD??

Someone who knows should please explain.


The reference is for AMD(ATi) Graphics Cards, in particular OpenCL/Driver support (if I understand correctly).

I don't presume to know details of AMD's decision, though can vouch that for Vista onwards, driver development is fairly radically different than XP. Running 2 driver branches instead of one, would be costly to develop, maintain & support. This is while the bulk of their sales is probably geared to DirectX11/11.1, integrated graphics, consoles & Macs.

I pity AMD guys........


"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1371644 - Posted: 25 May 2013, 5:59:02 UTC

Well... ( deep subject for such a shallow mind as mine ! )

I think I will just uncheck V7 Wu's in Boinc / or / Prefs ,until all this gets figured out , if that is even possible !
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Message 1371648 - Posted: 25 May 2013, 6:19:06 UTC - in response to Message 1371644.  

Well... ( deep subject for such a shallow mind as mine ! )

I think I will just uncheck V7 Wu's in Boinc / or / Prefs ,until all this gets figured out , if that is even possible !

Yes Floyd, its possible, I'm just hoping there won't be a minimum video driver level, since I'm looking for stability and not down clocks from 772MHz to 405MHz which I've seen during google searches of various threads outside of Seti... I'm currently using 301.42 WHQL and I have 301.24 beta ready to replace it, but I'd rather prove that 301.42 works ok under Win7 x64, I started at 6:32pm, that's almost 5 hours, plus the card is now an EVGA GTX 580SC according to the bios.

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Message 1371701 - Posted: 25 May 2013, 8:36:34 UTC

I thought that for v7 the stock app was going to be the same as the optimised app? If so why do we need a separate installer for optimised app? Is it not possible for current optimised app users like myself to uninstall it, revert to stock and then let that update automatically?

I ask because next week is OK for me, but the week after when the installer is supposed to be available I will be in Moscow all week and I am not going to try and do the installation over logmein! My main cruncher gets through its 100 WU GPU cache in 16 hours and I do not believe there will be sufficient v6 resends available to keep it busy once the splitters start producing just v7.

Will the v7 stock app handle GPU as well as CPU processing and will it let me run multiple WU at the same time on my GPU?

If all else fails, it looks like my machines will be doing a lot of Einstein work during the switchover.
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Message 1371743 - Posted: 25 May 2013, 11:09:19 UTC - in response to Message 1371701.  
Last modified: 25 May 2013, 11:23:11 UTC

I thought that for v7 the stock app was going to be the same as the optimised app? If so why do we need a separate installer for optimised app? Is it not possible for current optimised app users like myself to uninstall it, revert to stock and then let that update automatically? ...


Yep that's the plan for most, at least initially. CPU multibeam received Joe Segur's AVX along with adaptations of Alex Kan's pulsefinding etc. I understand Lunatics already have some customised CPU builds, for example, which may be better suited for third party distribution, rather than stock which has a slower update cycle by necessity. Project overhead with testing and revision for general distribution can be too high for small incremental refinement.

Where installers fit in , in the short term, is mostly for those wanting multiple GPU instances per device on Older Boinc (already mentioned), also app_info allows some customisations like manual <flops> entries, and variation on CPU cores reserved etc. More for experienced users seeking to squeeze out as much throughput as possible, something that isn't a primary goal with stock (but certainly at least a minor one).

In the medium to longer term, stock, with optimised contributions serves as a baseline for further development, not all of which would necessarily be suitable for general stock release. Examples might include binaries using target specific optimisations or new techniques. I for one have a number of special things in mind for Cuda X-branch, as well as CPU apps, that may not be generic enough for stock (at least initial implementations). Some of those would be likely to reflect back into CPU builds & maybe stock eventually too, after a lot of field testing and refinement.

HTH,
Jason
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
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