The reason I didn't post at all on Friday is that I got up at 3:30 to drive to Fostoria, OH, to chase Nickel Plate 765 back to her home in Ft. Wayne, IN (actually New Haven). I'll try to post a couple of pics later.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

A Facebook friend posted this link to me and said the part at the bottom may apply to me. He was right.

I'm posting it as a link because the picture would be too big for this forum.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

So you can go from San Fran to Vancouver by train then?

Certainly as far as Seattle. Sometime last year, I was playing around with an armchair fantasy of visiting Berkeley some day and making a circular trip of it - I found the Coast Starlight. Never got far enough out of my armchair, though.

So you can go from San Fran to Vancouver by train then?

The simple answer is no. As I found last year not all towns and cities have a passenger rail connection.

You can however take a bus at both ends and for the princley sum of $212 (£137) you can make the approx 930 mile (1,500km) trip in around 27 hours. Unfortunately all journeys seem to be overnight and I cannot find a daytime one! That is the Weekend price, drops to $136 on a weekday.

(Edit) Wasn't awake then, that's why it'll be called the Coast Starlight then DUH!!



My experience is that the majority of Americans don't travel by train, they either drive or fly and if cost is an option take the bus. Hence the fact that Amtrak is mostly government funded, I believe if it wasn't then it would have collapsed years ago.

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So you can go from San Fran to Vancouver by train then?

The simple answer is no. As I found last year not all towns and cities have a passenger rail connection.

You can however take a bus at both ends and for the princley sum of $212 (£137) you can make the approx 930 mile (1,500km) trip in around 27 hours. Unfortunately all journeys seem to be overnight and I cannot find a daytime one! That is the Weekend price, drops to $136 on a weekday.

(Edit) Wasn't awake then, that's why it'll be called the Coast Starlight then DUH!!

With over 22 hours on the train alone, some of it more or less *has* to be in darkness - the only question is 'which end'.

That sounds easily 'doable', but I don't think I would want to follow it immediately with three hours on a bus and an after-midnight arrival. Far better to take a night or two in Seattle (sleepless or otherwise), and then finish the trip on a - presumably available - daytime bus a couple of days later.

That's cause airports and interstate highways(aka freeways) are federally funded to a larger extent, Amtrak is grudgingly funded and there have been attempts to exterminate passenger rail service in the US by some in Congress, Like Rep Jeff Denham(R-CA) and the Republican party are against HSR, they largely don't like it cause a Black Man in the White House is for it, plus they don't really like foreign ideas for the most part, though they do like austerity...

Also there are areas of this country that need Amtrak, as their not served too well by other modes of transportation.

Strange you wouldn't have thought congress would like it that most Europeans, Chinese and Japanese can easily say they have a better public transport than the US.

I have traveled Amtrak, NY to Washington and NY to Boston and have to say while the trains are probably larger and more comfortable than the UK the infrastructure leaves a bit to be desired, on both journeys I was delayed at least one way due to "power or track" problems.

PS The Wi-Fi was free, please note UK train companies.

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So you can go from San Fran to Vancouver by train then?

The simple answer is no. As I found last year not all towns and cities have a passenger rail connection.

You can however take a bus at both ends and for the princley sum of $212 (£137) you can make the approx 930 mile (1,500km) trip in around 27 hours. Unfortunately all journeys seem to be overnight and I cannot find a daytime one! That is the Weekend price, drops to $136 on a weekday.

(Edit) Wasn't awake then, that's why it'll be called the Coast Starlight then DUH!!

Not quite. You didn't dig hard enough, or you tried to make it all one continuous trip.

First, Amtrak does not directly serve San Francisco. The Coast Starlight comes up from L.A. and makes a right at San Jose to go east of the bay to Oakland. They have a bus connection from downtown SF to Oakland; personally, I'd rather take a cab, or the Caltrain commuter line out to San Jose. Or, you could take an early Capitol Corridor train to Sacramento and spend a day there (at the California State Railroad Museum, of course) before boarding the Starlight. Anyway, you'll go through northern California overnight (something has to be at night, it's a 22.5 hour, 913 mile trip from Oakland) and Oregon and Washington in daylight, arriving in Seattle at 8:37pm.

Second, there are two daily trains from Portland to Vancouver, part of the Cascades corridor supported by the two states. But to take the train the whole way, you'd have to stay overnight in Portland or Seattle. Really, though, you should stay there two or three days anyway and see the city (either one, or both). [edit] Note: the Cascades usually run with Talgo trains, a Spanish design modified to meet US crash safety standards. The existing trains were paid for by Washington, and two new ones bought by Oregon now exist; one is currently at a testing facility in Colorado to make sure it's as safe as it's designed to be, and the other is in Washington for testing on the route.

(Getting approval for the second round trip to Vancouver was a Royal pain, from an unexpected source. Canadian Customs wanted Amtrak to pay its costs to inspect the train and all the passengers. Amtrak, of course, would pass the cost along to Washington State as part of the operating subsidy. Customs finally agreed to temporarily add a second trip for the Vancouver Olympics and then, at the last minute, dropped the charge to keep it permanently. I think the political pressure on them came not only from Washington but also from Vancouver and British Columbia, which saw it as a tourism opportunity.)

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

That's cause airports and interstate highways(aka freeways) are federally funded to a larger extent, Amtrak is grudgingly funded and there have been attempts to exterminate passenger rail service in the US by some in Congress, Like Rep Jeff Denham(R-CA) and the Republican party are against HSR, they largely don't like it cause a Black Man in the White House is for it, plus they don't really like foreign ideas for the most part, though they do like austerity...

Also there are areas of this country that need Amtrak, as their not served too well by other modes of transportation.

Strange you wouldn't have thought congress would like it that most Europeans, Chinese and Japanese can easily say they have a better public transport than the US.

American conservatives tend to respond to that argument with "we're Americans! Why should we copy what other countries do?" ignoring that it's a better way than what we have.

I have traveled Amtrak, NY to Washington and NY to Boston and have to say while the trains are probably larger and more comfortable than the UK the infrastructure leaves a bit to be desired, on both journeys I was delayed at least one way due to "power or track" problems.

PS The Wi-Fi was free, please note UK train companies.

Amtrak's wi-fi is free, but not all that great. It depends on the wireless carriers in the area. (Each train's lounge car has four antennas on the roof, one for each major wireless carrier, with the idea that at any given time at least one of them should have a usable signal, which is then piped through the train.) They only have it in the NEC and, I think, California. Maybe the Northwest too, I'm not sure. I think it's supposed to be coming to Illinois sometime soon.

I think except for the NEC area of the US(North East Corridor, it's the New England area), Amtrak is on rails that Amtrak does not own or maintain, it's a guest of the Freight railroads, Here in CA the amount of people riding on Amtrak California which is owned by the state of California and run by Amtrak is breaking ridership records, if Repubs in Congress think they can stop HSR in CA, they need to think again, CA has the tax base to fund HSR in CA all by itself if needed, CA is not a poor state like some states(Mississippi, Alabama, etc, etc)... CA has an economy that could make CA a country in it's own right(8th or 9th largest in the world)...

Amtrak owns the Northeast Corridor from Washington, DC, to Boston, except for the segment from New Rochelle, NY (suburb of New York City) to New Haven, CT, which is owned by the states and managed by Metro North Commuter Railroad. Amtrak also owns a segment from Porter, IN (where it splits off of Norfolk Southern's Chicago-Cleveland mainline) to Kalamazoo, MI and has spent many years working to raise train speeds to 110MPH, which finally happened last year. The State of Michigan has recently purchased the line from Kalamazoo to Dearborn (suburban Detroit) and soon will start a project to raise it to the same standards as west of K'zoo.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

For all you Euros (and Brits) it should be noted that there are lots of short distance passenger trains in North America, usually funded at a level below Federal, usually very busy, and usually breaking even (with the government subsidies). What we don't have is long distance inter-city trains with any future.

Don't have recent experience with Amtrak, but the Canadian equivalent is Via Rail. They seem to be slipping into the same death spiral as Amtrak: they will cut services and schedules until ridership picks up. And we taxpayers pay the managers big bucks to reach these decisions.

Today most Via Rail travel in Canada matches the cheap air fares, to the dollar. Sure, you get more leg room and less invasive security on the train, but I have a choice of two trains a day to the nearest big city, or 8 flights a day on two different airlines.

Long distance freight trains in Canada make big bucks, and make more every time the price of diesel goes up. To the managers of the railroads, passengers are a money losing pain in the neck that the government forces them to put up with. It will take a major change in government funding and policy to end the slow slide of long distance passenger trains into oblivion.

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For all you Euros (and Brits) it should be noted that there are lots of short distance passenger trains in North America, usually funded at a level below Federal, usually very busy, and usually breaking even (with the government subsidies). What we don't have is long distance inter-city trains with any future.

Don't have recent experience with Amtrak, but the Canadian equivalent is Via Rail. They seem to be slipping into the same death spiral as Amtrak: they will cut services and schedules until ridership picks up. And we taxpayers pay the managers big bucks to reach these decisions.

Today most Via Rail travel in Canada matches the cheap air fares, to the dollar. Sure, you get more leg room and less invasive security on the train, but I have a choice of two trains a day to the nearest big city, or 8 flights a day on two different airlines.

Long distance freight trains in Canada make big bucks, and make more every time the price of diesel goes up. To the managers of the railroads, passengers are a money losing pain in the neck that the government forces them to put up with. It will take a major change in government funding and policy to end the slow slide of long distance passenger trains into oblivion.

Some Via trains are leaning toward being luxury cruise services instead of viable travel for local towns along the way. They increase the on board amenities a little and raise the fares a lot, and only people who are looking for something different than the ocean cruise they took the last three years can afford to ride it. Amtrak is resisting that trend, insisting that it must remain a travel option for rural communities that, in some cases, don't even have bus service.

However, in the short corridors, Via is doing as well as Amtrak. BTW, Amtrak's NEC makes a small profit on operations, but not enough to cover its capital expenses, or the losses of the long distance trains.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Via Rail should change over to HSR, the Chinese do it over long distances and yeah it's done from Germany down to Spain.

A little hard to afford or to justify in a country bigger than China but with only 3.5% the population.

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So you can go from San Fran to Vancouver by train then?

The simple answer is no. As I found last year not all towns and cities have a passenger rail connection.

You can however take a bus at both ends and for the princley sum of $212 (£137) you can make the approx 930 mile (1,500km) trip in around 27 hours. Unfortunately all journeys seem to be overnight and I cannot find a daytime one! That is the Weekend price, drops to $136 on a weekday.

(Edit) Wasn't awake then, that's why it'll be called the Coast Starlight then DUH!!

If you are visiting Berkeley, you don't need to take a bus from SF across the Bay, since Emeryville is just north of Berkeley/Oakland. And isn't there a Coast Daylight as well? Or is that the leg that runs back and forth from San Diego to Oakland?

After your stay in Vancouver, you could take the CN cross-country to the East Coast. I've seen video of that trip, should be fun.

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Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

Everybody is interested, as long as somebody else pays. That sums up Canadian passenger train planning for the last 40 years.

The train from Vancouver to Eastern Canada hasn't been CN for several decades. Unless you take one of the high priced tourist trains, the Via Rail passenger train through the Rockies now runs at night, to free up the tracks in prime time for the money makers.

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Via Rail should change over to HSR, the Chinese do it over long distances and yeah it's done from Germany down to Spain.

Consider the distances involved.

Berlin to Madrid: 1427 miles

Vancouver to Montreal: 3003 miles (mostly in the US)

This isn't rail distance, it's driving directions from maps.bing.com, but you get the idea. There just isn't enough ridership over that run to justify making the whole thing HSR. Montreal-Toronto-Ottawa-Windsor, sure, and Via would like to. In fact, I believe parts of that area go 90MPH or faster (which isn't really HSR).

China, otoh, has a tendency to build things incredibly quickly and then have spectacular crashes because they cut corners on safety to meet the deadline. They also go gung ho building stuff for a few years, then suddenly stop because the political controls on their economy say so.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

If you are visiting Berkeley, you don't need to take a bus from SF across the Bay, since Emeryville is just north of Berkeley/Oakland. And isn't there a Coast Daylight as well? Or is that the leg that runs back and forth from San Diego to Oakland?

There is only one daily train in each direction running the length of the west coast. In the days before Amtrak, Southern Pacific called it the Coast Daylight. (A lot of their other trains were also called Daylight.) Amtrak calls it the Coast Starlight and it runs from Los Angeles to Seattle.

Amtrak has lots of trains overlapping the Starlight's route at the south end, in the middle, and on the north end, but those areas don't connect to each other except by bus. The Pacific Surfliner (formerly the San Diegan) does what no pre-Amtrak railroad ever did, run through LA from San Luis Obispo to San Diego. The Capitol Corridor runs San Jose to Sacramento, partially overlapping with the San Joaquin from Oakland to Bakersfield (with a bus connection to LA). And the Cascades run from Eugene, OR, to Vancouver, BC. All of these corridor services run multiple frequencies per day.

BTW, the Coast Starlight is unique among Amtrak trains in that sleeping car passengers are invited to the evening wine tasting in the Pacific Parlor car, which doesn't run on any other train.

I suppose I should mention here that all Amtrak trains that have sleepers provide free meals in the diner to sleeper passengers (not to coach passengers).

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Mystic Moods Orchestra......
One Stormy Night/Local Freight

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Speaking of trains......
There was a recording long ago by Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab called 'The Power and the Majesty'. On vinyl....remember vinyl?? They did the mastering at half speed so as to maximize the bandwidth and dynamics imparted to the vinyl.

This is the first side.....A great recording of a thunder and lightning and hailstorm.

If memory serves, on the flip side is a grand recording of a freight train blasting across the tracks in front of the mike setup, which at full bore on my old megawatt stereo system, would blow you right off the rails.
I used to scare the crap outta party guests with that one years ago.

It starts out slow, so nobody would notice, and then, all of a sudden, this freight train is rumbling through the living room....LOL.

Does anybody remember that recording, and if so, could you possibly post it to youtube or gimme a link?

My turntable has been down for some time now, it might have something to do with the fact that a new tip for my Ortofon would probably cost me well over a grand at this time.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Hope it doesn't catch on over here!

Sweden

They should just call them kilts, and everybody would be happy.

Kilts - You beat me to it Richard :-)

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Vancouver to Montreal: 3003 miles (mostly in the US)

And from Montreal it a long day's drive to the East Coast. Map Quest makes Vancouver to Halifax as 3854 miles, again taking the short cut through the US. This is a big place!

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